Windurra social media

[trubandloki]

@Bearx2

The fact of the matter is that sign is not working. If he still has enough people leaving without paying he either needs to change what the policy/ sign says or he needs to accept the fact that people are going to leave and pay later. Sometimes you have to be blunt and SPELL IT OUT FOR people. Tell people they are REQUIRED to pay before they leave the property and if you don’t you will be banned for at least a month. Remind people that they can pay online before they even get there. But to keep doing the same thing over and over and getting upset that you get the same out come is pointless and coming unglued on social media can do a lot of damage. Does it suck that people cannot be adults and follow the current instructions? Yes it does. In an ideal world everyone would respect the time, money and energy that goes into keeping a course like that open. But we don’t live in an ideal world and sometimes it is easier to change what we are doing then it is expect other to change.

The problem is not that he has not spelled it out clearly, the problem is people think the rules do not apply to them and they can point the finger at him/his facility claiming it is not clear and people like you (not general) think that makes sense.

I do not think one can make it more clear than that sign that has the frown face on it pictured above.

If you (general) are still leaving with out paying, you are the problem, not the million (exaggeration, clearly) signs, posts and other ways that you are notified that you have to pay at the time.

The only way to fix this issue is not allow you (general) free access and require you (still general) to make an appointment, reserve a certain number of spots and pay before you arrive, to be let in by someone who confirms you paid. Because people are that ridiculous and are blaming people not paying on there not being enough signs.

We need a head to brick wall emoji.

[endlessclimb]

Or a ruthless policy when busted for not paying ahead of time. It would only take a couple year long bans before people would knock it off.

Ridiculous that someone has to do that, instead of people being respectful that they’re on someone else’s property using their stuff.

The excuse that someone else does the electronic payments and they only do them in the evening is so entirely hollow it’s laughable. So tell him to pay the night before - seems pretty common sense to me.

[Harriet1]

@dmveventer

The fact that bad behavior is so normalized for professionals in our sport is a huge part of the problem and how we wind up with these types of incidents in the first place. Why are we willing to accept “not as nasty as some of the others” as our standard?

Who said anything about normalizing this as a standard? I have commented multiple times that I thought the first FB post was a bad decision, and unprofessional.

With that said, I think the reaction to it is over the top as well.

My point was simply that there are many legendary 5* eventers who are well known to have unpleasant personalities, and have engaged in unpleasant interactions with others (employees, fellow competitors, clients, etc). This is nothing new. I’m not saying it’s fine… just making an observation. And noting that the original FB post in question was stupid, but not as bad as many other stories people have shared over the years about other top riders.

[endlessclimb]

@Harriet1

but not as bad as many other stories people have shared over the years about other top riders

I really dislike when people try and deflect like this. We aren’t talking about “other top riders”. We are talking about this one, and this incident.

[Harriet1]

@endlessclimb

Can you tell your grocery store that you’ll venmo them later?

How about the nail or hair salon?

How about a banquet hall?

Where else in the whole world would it be ok to say “I know you said, in several different ways, that you want to be paid like X, but I’m just gunna pay you like Y.” That is so arrogant.

Agreed.

However… I would call it entitled. As in, the person who didn’t pay seems to feel entitled to the use of someone else’s property. Hence many people pointing out that this is a multimillion dollar facility, the sport depends upon everyone having access to good facilities like this, and perhaps people should pause before reacting, and think about that a little more.

[kasams987]

Right but a grocery, nail salon, banquet hall, and hair salon all have steps in place that won’t allow you to cheat the system. CC aside- because I’m sure Boyd didn’t feel this way after just 1 instance. He has the signage, but clearly it doesn’t prevent bad people from being bad people. Boyd having an outburst about a grievance he has been expressing for 7+ years, like dude that’s on you to fix now. If you continue to not lock your door and people keep robbing you, it’s on you to start locking. People are shitty, but boyd needs to get better security, a secured system, or something else in place because whining about it clearly hasn’t helped. I just don’t like how he says we rely on an honor system then complains about it. We can be sad about the bad people of the world but what will that actually change? Quit complaining, more fixing Windurra.

[AmmyHour926]

Signage or not, rules or not. Yes - Courtney should have paid before she left that day. Still the rant by Boyd on SM was uncalled for. Imagine literally any other professional business making a post like that? It is in bad taste. Have the private conversation with Courtney, suspend her, and leave it at that.

[Texarkana]

@kasams987

Boyd having an outburst about a grievance he has been expressing for 7+ years, like dude that’s on you to fix now. If you continue to not lock your door and people keep robbing you, it’s on you to start locking. People are shitty, but boyd needs to get better security, a secured system, or something else in place because whining about it clearly hasn’t helped. I just don’t like how he says we rely on an honor system then complains about it. Quit complaining, more fixing Windurra.

Um, but isn’t this what he sort of tried to do! Albeit in a crappy manner.

Certain people continuously take advantage of the facility after repeated attempts to clarify the expectations. Clear directions on the website, clear signage, social media posts, etc. Some people aren’t getting the memo.

So he took it to the next level and banned a bad actor.

He lost his temper with the situation, which isn’t right. It could have absolutely been done in a “better” manner. I think everyone agrees with that.

But also, can you blame him? You have a 10+ year working relationship with a person and they still can’t play by your rules on your own property when few others have this problem.

[Harriet1]

@kasams987

Right but a grocery, nail salon, banquet hall, and hair salon all have steps in place that won’t allow you to cheat the system. CC aside- because I’m sure Boyd didn’t feel this way after just 1 instance. He has the signage, but clearly it doesn’t prevent bad people from being bad people. Boyd having an outburst about a grievance he has been expressing for 7+ years, like dude that’s on you to fix now. If you continue to not lock your door and people keep robbing you, it’s on you to start locking. People are shitty, but boyd needs to get better security, a secured system, or something else in place because whining about it clearly hasn’t helped. I just don’t like how he says we rely on an honor system then complains about it. We can be sad about the bad people of the world but what will that actually change? Quit complaining, more fixing Windurra.

Many courses that are open to schooling operate on an honor system. I can think of 5 in area 2 right off the top of my head.

If people are abusing that honor system, I don’t blame the property owner who has generously opened their facility to the public and tell that property owner to do a better job of managing their facility.

If people are abusing the honor system… I blame the people abusing it. And I get ticked off, because if they keep on doing stuff like that, it’s inevitable that sooner or later the property owner will either raise schooling rates, or close it to the public.

[Annie10]

@Harriet1

@Annie10

He knows he’s Boyd Martin. He knows he has an audience. He loves it, revels in it and regularly panders to it. He knew exactly what he was doing when he did it.
Very inappropriate and unprofessional.

I think you are off base here.

I think he honestly doesn’t care all that much about his social media audience one way or another. Yes, he has a lot of female fans. He also has a lot of haters, for various reasons over the years. I remember when Crackerjack died. That was awful.

I do agree though that he knew what he was doing with the first post. Directing other local riders to call the authorities if they spotted her on the course during her ban? THAT was intentional. Possibly because there are more than a few people who laughed when they read that, and would be only too happy to stick it to Courtney.

I think it’s fair to call that tactic and the whole post inappropriate and unprofessional. But hey - so is paying late.

He sure posts a lot of little performances and such on his SM, but ok whatever…
And a precedent had been set for venmoing later from what I’m seeing…
So to all of a sudden have a sudden meltdown on Sm over it comes across at best a bit primadonna ish and at worst a bit unhinged.
Makes me wonder if he loses his s like that in his barn with the horses on occasion .

[FitzE]

Our local general store (everything from milk and eggs to sheep fencing) has a variety of arrangements given the situation of various customers.

I cannot buy groceries or sundries and leave without paying. People on a fixed income who collect their pensions on a Friday can. My manager can get get materials to, for recent example, bulk up my fencing b/c he’s putting cattle in my upper and lower pastures, and leave without paying. When I come home in summer or at the hols, I go in the very day I land or the next day if the shop isn’t open the day I land (i.e., Wednesday after 2:00 or all day Sunday) and Tomás pulls out the sales bills written when my manager bought the materials, tots them up, and I pay them. This May my bill was just south of €650.

The point being, in businesses that are more particular than mainstream businesses like high street grocery stores, nails salons, etc., there are often a variety of actual payment practices despite there also being a generally payment policy.

People coming and going on a farm with an honour system would be much more like the general store I describe and less like your local supermarket. We have evidence that, not only did CC pay via venmo the evening after schooling, at least one other person on here does that, too. Thus, we have a pattern of some individual deviation from the stated policy for people known to Boyd (e.g., his long-term student CC).

Once again, he is allowed to change that and to require her and everyone to follow the baseline policy. He can change that whenever he wants. He can refuse to allow deviation in the first place. He can tolerate it for some but not others. Whatever he wants. That’s all well within his right and ability to tolerate or not as he sees fit.

However, once he does tolerate it for an individual, esp for over a year, if he wants to stop that and require adherence to the other policy, he simply needs to be civil in informing clients of that change before going nuclear about it, both in private and on SM.

That’s just not professional and no litany of parallel examples is ever going to make it so.

Again, Boyd can do whatever he wants re: methods/timing of payment. Literally anything he wants. And he can change at any time. But, for the good of his business and reputation going forward and for the sake of general decency within a small sporting community, he needs to do so in a mature and professional manner, without emotional freak outs and SM take downs.

No one is saying he cannot run the business and payment method as he sees fit. Many are saying he cannot speak to people the way he did via text or do the SM take downs.

[Bearx2]

I agree that there are many people who do not think the rules apply to them and I also think that there will be people who leave without paying no matter what type of signs you put up. But putting up signs that are clear and to the point allows you to enforce the boundaries. Good signs allows someone like Boyd to say hey I told you want the consequences would be if you didn’t follow the rules and it keeps him from coming across like a jerk. And I am sorry but I don’t think a sign with a frowny face is the way to go if you want to people to actually read what the signs say. All I saw when I first looked at the sign was the frowny face. And what exactly does will not be welcome back mean? Never allowed to set foot on the property again or not welcome back till you pay the fee?

[Bearx2]

100% agree with this!

[Annie10]

@McGurk

@anonevent

I think that the Windurra policy could be better articulated. They ensure that you sign a release before riding. Why not require that payment be made before riding?

There is literally a HUGE sign at the entrance saying you must pay your schooling fees before leaving the property or you won’t be welcome back. HUGE. You can’t miss it, and it couldn’t be more clear. It’s been there for AT LEAST two years, and I’m sure longer.

One of my big problems with this story is that Cooper apparently has assumed long term that the sign didn’t apply to her. There’s no evidence that she and Martin had previously agreed that it didn’t apply to her and she could just pay later at her convenience.

I find the whole somebody else VenMos the money AFTER the schooling to be BS. Why weren’t the fees VenMoed before the schooling?

From the Windurra website:

Please tell me how you think the policy could be articulated more clearly

I realize this may be a bit nitpicky, but it says to leave a check in the box when you arrive. However, there is no such specification about when one should pay via Venmo or PayPal. And as someone else stated if he has allowed people to pay later in the day or after returning home or whatever via Venmo or PayPal then to all of a sudden have a meltdown and a freak out online and begin railing at people over it Publicly all of a sudden is not cool.

As another poster said above, if you’re going to allow this to go on and then all of a sudden decide you’re going to enforce the policy that you haven’t been enforcing you probably should let people know before you rail at them in a public forum
If it had said something to the effect of “ all payment is required upon arrival and before mounting your horse. Acceptable methods of payment are Venmo, PayPal or a personal check left in the box. Thank you”
That would be totally different. That would be totally clear and leave nothing open to interpretation.

[enjoytheride]

The level to which people will stoop to explain why it is the property owners fault is why have so few places to school.

[Harriet1]

It’s not just schooling… it’s also a risk to competition venues.

People criticize property owners and organizers left and right. They seem to not realize that eventing is generally unprofitable, and the people involved in organizing competitions, etc, do it out of a love for the sport.

At this point, it seems like only a matter of time before it’s mostly arena eventing, everywhere.

[Annie10]

That’s not what I’m saying. McGurk asked I answered.
I pay before I get on my horse everywhere I go. Whether it says to or not. So for me it’s a non issue . IMHO to do otherwise would be rude.
However,
Martin allowed otherwise for a long time and established a precedent.
There are people for whom you have to spell out absolutely everything, and by doing so it can eliminate a lot of problems.
And when you establish/make a rule/policy then you should stick to it and enforce it , so you dont face issues.
But when there is an issue you should address it with that person and not lose your s on SM
Or act like a psycho via text . When you’re a professional you should act like one

[FitzE]

It is always the fault of someone who chooses not to control their emotions and lashes out, publicly and privately. Doesn’t matter if they own land, rent it, or live in their mama’s basement.

You are confusing two issues: her payment method v. his way of handling it

Stop normalising professionals who refuse to regulate their emotional outbursts.

It’s not good for the clients, the horses, or the sport to have hot heads praised or excused for being hot heads b/c [insert reason - they own land, they are Olympians, they are stressed, etc.].

[Harriet1]

@FitzE

Stop normalising professionals who refuse to regulate their emotional outbursts.

Again. The irony here is remarkable. You clearly don’t know the people involved in this situation, given that this is your focus, and you are continuing to defend Courtney.

SMH.

[Djones]

It seems that some of you have a magic crystal ball and know every single time.Boyd has had to reach out to Courtney and try to be accommodating and try to be cool.And how many other people he had to chase down this week and last week and the week before trying to keep the income coming and getting really sick of the hassle.