I was surprised to see two divisions at Tryon (I believe the 4 short and 3 long) were won by combinations who had 11 penalties. It’s interesting that you can now win an event with an error that 10-15 years ago could have resulted in a horse fall. I get that some pins don’t save a fall (example - horse leaving it’s stifles into a coffin), but all the evidence regarding the force taken to deploy a frangible really indicates these weren’t light rubs.
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Hmmm. But objectively, the winner had the least penalties, however acquired. I would be more concerned that a winner had any penalties, not just frangibles. When you look at the recent Badminton results, see just how many finished on their dressage score, clear on jumping and time. The USA is currently well off the pace.
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Objectively true. I am just not sure I have seen that before at any FEI in any country.
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Chris Burton won Burghley in 2016 with 4 rails and he was only .2 away from being able to have another rail and still win so strange things happen sometimes.
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@Stallrest1 True enough, which is a part of the fascinating uncertainty of our wonderful sport.
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I mean, we changed the rules (removed the dressage multiplier) after he did that, because eventing fans collectively agreed that shouldn’t be possible. I think that was the right call.
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In all fairness most people did jump clear it’s just that almost no-one made the time in any division except the 2* which really changed the results. Still it doesn’t look great that only 2 people in the 4* S and L and no-one at all in the 3*L finished under 40.
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Badminton top 6 riders were all under 40 penalties. The two American riders were in the bottom half.
ETA Both American riders are UK based. I’m really pleased that Tiana Coudray has a horse back at this level: she left home and started from scratch to build up her business and career.
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I didn’t pose the question as compare USA results to international results. We know the USA lags behind generally, thats not news. More so that courses were designed in a way that the cream that rose to the top was the fastest round despite a pin. I’d think as a sport we would rather see a clear round with time win, maybe thats just me.
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I think you also have to take into account that it was a small field in the 4S, less than 20 starters, almost half had problems on XC and Sharon was the fastest by 17 seconds following a lovely dressage and a double clear SJ. I wasn’t there, so I didn’t see but it’s possible she hit the pin with the hind end which wouldn’t necessarily have resulted in a fall.
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I also think there was talk at some point for pins to be discretional penalties based on if it was judged to have prevented a fall, but personally, I feel adding more subjectivity to the scoring of eventing is not the best idea
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IMHO, the penalties are for flags and pins should be reversed. It seems foolish that knocking a pin is only 11 points when it may have been life saving. It should be at least 15.
The whole flag situation needs an overhaul. It’s frustrating to a fan to wonder if there is a penalty or not. Also, it can bring into question favoritism. My suggestion is to not flag the actual edge of the jump. Make the flag pole L shaped at the top so that the flag is actually 6" outside of the jump. Then if you take the flag, its an automatic 10 points with no appeal because obviously you jumped outside of the jump.
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Could not agree more. For a while there, Ros and Lordships Graffalo came through Huntsman’s Close with more penalties than Tom and JL Dublin. Tom and Dubs are a lovely combination, but that is so obviously not the correct way to assess those rounds.
Huh. This is a cool idea. Objective and fairly inexpensive without forcing riders to change the way they ride cross country. I like this a lot.
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I agree. And I like that suggestion. It is relatively inexpensive in terms of replacement costs.
My main concern with the frangible pins is that it can get rubbed hard all day and then someone comes along and barely taps it and it engages. We saw that with MJ one year. IMO, I don’t think that’s fair - but I have no idea how to build a frangible device that isn’t compromised a tiny bit each time it’s hit.
The frangible fences have changed the way riders ride/approach them. For good and bad.
They could just put the existing flags 6" to the side.
And, please correct me, but I thought they were checking the frangible pins after every knock? That is certainly the impression I got.
They are. My impression – which may be outdated as it’s been years since I’ve fence judged where a frangible was used and the design may have changed depending on the clip or pin used – is that not all components are visible and microwear or stress may not be immediately evident. If this is no longer the case, that’s excellent news. I’m a little behind the goings-on of the UL myself with my recent career change.
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The reason I used L shape was then the flag could be attached to the jump and be more secure rather than just sticking it in the ground six inches away.
I really hadn’t thought about it until watching Badminton this year. I wonder how the PTB determined that a flag rates a higher penalty than triggering a frangible device. I’d l like to hear their rationale. Perhaps there’s something that I’m missing, I’d love to hear an explanation of how they came to the decision that flag penalties would be more severe.
Likely to keep people honest in actually jumping over the fence as intended.
I get that, the jump has to be made between the flags, but why wouldn’t be the penalties be equal? Hitting a jump hard enough to activate the frangible pins is less of an error?
