Looking for a saddle to do some hacking and intro lessons in English on my fat little QH mare. I don’t want to spend a lot (please be nice!) and am looking at buying either a used 1-year old Wintec 250 A/P with CAIR and changeable gullet, or a Stubben Siegfried from the 60’s that is in good condition and still being used by the girl selling it (she’s just going down in seat size). I need a 19" so it’s tough to come across nice used saddles in this size. If the choice was yours, which would you prefer? I will be having the saddle shipped so can’t try it on her beforehand (but at the price point, feel like I could probably turn around and sell the saddle with relative ease if it didn’t fit) and nobody at my barn rides in either of these in the wide width we need. Thanks!
Stubben!!
It’s a shame you can’t try either and see which is more comfortable for you (and your horse). Personally I would run far away from the Steuben while screaming and flailing my arms, but that’s just because I have never ever ridden in one that didn’t feel horribly uncomfortable. On the other hand I have several friends that love theirs. I owned a wintec dressage saddle a few years back and I really liked it, I found it quite comfortable and it held up well so if I had to choose between the two I would go with the wintec.
Yup Stubben is the way to go. I sold mine last year, bought brand new in 1968 or 1969 and it was in great shape, they last forever! Excellent quality at a very reasonable price.
What shape is your horse’s back? IME Wintecs work better for a flat back than Stubbens.
I think both are a good bet for a new-to-English rider, but I’d go with Stubben because of their excellent quality. Plus I’ve seen CAIR panels make several horses back sore.
Here’s a pic: http://tinypic.com/r/cm680/5 (ugh, WHEN will I be able to upload attachments?!??!)
part of the reason I don’t want to spend a ton of money on a saddle is because she’s fairly out of shape now and I know her topline will change with more work and a better diet, and I’ll probably need to buy another one when it does.
The flap and stirrup bar position on a Stubben Siegfried can make it very difficult to get your legs underneath you. They do tend to put people in a chair seat. I have a Siegfried VSSG I hunt one of my wider horses in but I much prefer my Stubben Roxane VSS or Parzival D for flat work.
[QUOTE=Hot-2-Trot;7242069]
Here’s a pic: http://tinypic.com/r/cm680/5 (ugh, WHEN will I be able to upload attachments?!??!)[/QUOTE]
Umm, when you pay to. 
I do not think most Stubbens will fit her back well. I’m not particularly sure a Wintec will either, but it is a better gamble than the Stubben…
[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;7242422]
Umm, when you pay to.
I do not think most Stubbens will fit her back well. I’m not particularly sure a Wintec will either, but it is a better gamble than the Stubben…[/QUOTE]
Oh no, really?? I thought it was one of those “after x amount of posts, you get normal membership rights”. Blah.
Can you tell me why you think a Stubben wouldn’t work, and a Wintec is a maybe? And what might fit her better? I don’t know spit about english saddles but I’d really like to learn. 
I’m hoping her topline improves once she’s worked.
Stubbens are known for fitting narrower… I wouldn’t say your horse looks overly wide though. Once she muscles up you may need something wider. Wide in a Stubben is a 32+
[QUOTE=Hot-2-Trot;7242447]
Oh no, really?? I thought it was one of those “after x amount of posts, you get normal membership rights”. Blah.[/QUOTE]
No, you have to pay for the premium membership. Then wait for a mod to change your settings.
Without seeing the horse in question, it’s not possible to make any meaningful recommendation. If your mare is the bulldog type, it might be better to consider a used Thorowgood T4 cob/broadback model, or a used Duett. Neither the Wintec or the Stubben tend to work well on the real broadbacks.
[QUOTE=Hot-2-Trot;7241558]
Looking for a saddle to do some hacking and intro lessons in English on my fat little QH mare. I don’t want to spend a lot (please be nice!) and am looking at buying either a used 1-year old Wintec 250 A/P with CAIR and changeable gullet, or a Stubben Siegfried from the 60’s that is in good condition and still being used by the girl selling it (she’s just going down in seat size). I need a 19" so it’s tough to come across nice used saddles in this size. If the choice was yours, which would you prefer? I will be having the saddle shipped so can’t try it on her beforehand (but at the price point, feel like I could probably turn around and sell the saddle with relative ease if it didn’t fit) and nobody at my barn rides in either of these in the wide width we need. Thanks![/QUOTE]
The Stubben in the photos does not meet my criteria of “good” condition (& yes I’ve seen Stubbens that old that I would class as “good” condition) - any seat damage is very difficult to repair without replacing the entire seat (when the leather finally releases it tends to go fast & far), this saddle does not look as if the leather would withstand much in the way of repairs, likely the panels need a complete reflock (surface may look fine, but the wool will be knotted in hard clumps that horse will decidedly feel).
Also look at the channel width (on the underside) - it would not benefit most horses (though I know many people use them anyway) - video link
Finally it would be a slow resell even at under $300 …
FWIW did have a Stubben Scandica W fit a QH mare vey well but she was not particularly wide or flat backed … you do need to be carefull with longer saddles that they are not too long for the horse’s back - you might watch this video series
Kitt has a great blog if you’re more of a reader :yes:
[QUOTE=gypsymare;7242718]
Stubbens are known for fitting narrower… I wouldn’t say your horse looks overly wide though. Once she muscles up you may need something wider. Wide in a Stubben is a 32+[/QUOTE]
This particular saddle is a 32".
I posted a link to pic upthread. She’s the anti-bulldog, people have asked if there’s any arab in her cuz she’s got no butt. 
(She’s all cutting horses in her background.)
[QUOTE=alto;7243052]The Stubben in the photos does not meet my criteria of “good” condition (& yes I’ve seen Stubbens that old that I would class as “good” condition) - any seat damage is very difficult to repair without replacing the entire seat (when the leather finally releases it tends to go fast & far), this saddle does not look as if the leather would withstand much in the way of repairs, likely the panels need a complete reflock (surface may look fine, but the wool will be knotted in hard clumps that horse will decidedly feel).
Also look at the channel width (on the underside) - it would not benefit most horses (though I know many people use them anyway) - video link
Finally it would be a slow resell even at under $300 …
FWIW did have a Stubben Scandica W fit a QH mare vey well but she was not particularly wide or flat backed … you do need to be carefull with longer saddles that they are not too long for the horse’s back - you might watch this video series
Kitt has a great blog if you’re more of a reader :yes:[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the insight. I was also concerned that the saddle did not look like it was in the best condition it could be for its age, and I notice that she’s had zero interest listing it at $350. I did ask her if it’s been reflocked and she hasn’t done it (no clue if someone did it before her). Billets were replaced. I think I am gonna pass as $280 seems steep for the condition its in and while I don’t mind chancing a saddle fit if the price of the saddle is low, I don’t want stuck with a saddle that’s difficult to resell because of the condition.
Unfortunately, the girl with the wintec finally got back to me and the seat is an 18", not a 19", so it won’t work for me. :-/
Aw she’s cute and I love her coloring! Go with the stubben, I guess, but if you have a specific budget I can look around for you. Is there a reason you need a 19"? The only people I know that need one are rather large male riders.
Any thoughts on the Thorowgood Maxam for hacking and low-level (flat) lessons? I came across a nice used one in good condition, tree looks straight and it’s been well cared for. Are they known to be a good fit for QHs? Anyone know anything about their adjustable FISH system? She’s selling a W with something that can change it to a MW…
There’s an 18" Pessoa for sale on ebay now.
Also an 18.5" Crosby.
[QUOTE=alto;7243052]
The Stubben in the photos does not meet my criteria of “good” condition (& yes I’ve seen Stubbens that old that I would class as “good” condition)[/QUOTE]
This is the Stubben Siegfried (early to mid 70’s vintage) that I got for $500. It was used maybe 3 times and then stored in the livingroom of the original owner’s daughter, conditioned regularly. I would have classed this one as “like new” condition on e-bay. It’s a long way from the saddle you posted. Although a lot of people hate Stubben Siegfried’s I love both the one I bought and the one I rode in at my trainers prior to buying this one. It’s all about what fits both you and the horse. I’d say if you are looking for a Siegfried, keep looking, there are better ones out there than the one you linked.
If her back is flat, I would probably prefer the Wintec. I have a few stubbens sitting unused in my tack room from days of yore and they don’t fit any of our more flat backed horses. The Bates, which is about the same shape as the Wintec, fit much better.
I wound up with something else entirely, but just my two cents.
