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Wintec adjustable tree saddles. What do you think? Update & New ? post 30

Dressage
#21

[QUOTE=dwblover;3873586]
I actually prefer the Pro Dressage, but the Isabell is nice also, IMO. I really am a huge fan of Wintec, and I now have a Bates adjustable saddle. I honestly think the CAIR panels plus a sheepskin pad can make these saddles fit just about any horse. Honestly, my horse preferred the Wintec Pro Dressage adjusted one gullet wider than he measured combined with a Mattes pad. He moved better and felt better in that combo than the custom fit Passier that I ended up selling. I think the only complaint with them is if your horse is super wide than they may not fit.[/QUOTE]

As you said, extremely wide horses won’t fit in 99% of Wintec saddles (The Wintec Wide may work for some, but Wintec told me themselves it wouldn’t work for my girl). It also doesn’t work for high-withered, “dippy” horses. The panels are too straight, don’t have enough curve in them, for any real substantial dips.

I love Wintecs, but the gullet system kinda claims “one size fits all”, when that’s really far from the truth. A LOT of horses don’t fit into Wintecs. :frowning:

#22

[QUOTE=sublimequine;3875736]
As you said, extremely wide horses won’t fit in 99% of Wintec saddles (The Wintec Wide may work for some, but Wintec told me themselves it wouldn’t work for my girl). It also doesn’t work for high-withered, “dippy” horses. The panels are too straight, don’t have enough curve in them, for any real substantial dips.

I love Wintecs, but the gullet system kinda claims “one size fits all”, when that’s really far from the truth. A LOT of horses don’t fit into Wintecs. :([/QUOTE]

Yep, Wintec didn’t work for my guy either. However, I was told a similar tree with another panel deisgn, like Bates Innova, might. So even in adjustables, YMMV.

There are also tweaks saddle fitters can do on the CAIR panels with shims. Even Wintec will tell you that when you change the gullet, you should have the panels looked at as well.

Just like any saddle, they work for a lot of people. The don’t work for a lot of people. Another idea, OP, is to go for something adjustable and just have it fitted every year- I have a Schleese, but there are tons of adjustable brands out there (not just “1-2 cm” but fully adjustable) including Kieffer, Passier, Hennig, etc.

#23

Check out the thread on the wow saddles (www.wowsaddles.com) – as far as inter- and ex-changability goes, pretty unrivaled. Mine is traveling across the ocean as we speak, so I can’t tell you yet if it’s as great as it sounds, but it sure was fascinating enough to me to give it a try :smiley:

#24

[QUOTE=dwblover;3873586]
I actually prefer the Pro Dressage, but the Isabell is nice also, IMO. I really am a huge fan of Wintec, and I now have a Bates adjustable saddle. I honestly think the CAIR panels plus a sheepskin pad can make these saddles fit just about any horse. Honestly, my horse preferred the Wintec Pro Dressage adjusted one gullet wider than he measured combined with a Mattes pad. He moved better and felt better in that combo than the custom fit Passier that I ended up selling. I think the only complaint with them is if your horse is super wide than they may not fit.[/QUOTE]

Are you my twin?? :smiley:

I prefer the Pro… loff it actually. I bought it as a cheap interm saddle and so far have seen no reason to change.

I too made mine wider and have a mattes pad underneath.

AND the change in my one horse was like night and day. The saddle he had used looked like it fit… never left dry spots or scuff marks. Tried the wintec set xtra wide and the mattes… I had to apologise profusely to this poor horse. I had always said he was lazy and a little difficult to organize. New saddle arrangement and he is forward and soft and very agreeable. He wasn’t a jerk-his back hurt. Poor thing. And his movement much more fluid too.

#25

Wait a month or two if you can…

Our rep just showed us the new generation of Wintecs and they are very different and much improved. The 500 looks like a totally different saddle, but I believe the tree is similar (if not the same) to the original. But they have changed the “pleather” to a more grained, grippy material and added an Equisuede molded, padded flap that goes over the Velcro block. There is also a point billet and the V-billet system like they have in the more expensive models. They have also added more foam padding to the seat.

The new Pro looks a lot like the Innova. Same block shape, but a little smaller.

Both come standard in flocked or CAIR and they have improved the panels by added more bearing surface and widening the channel. The flocking is also not so hard as it once was.

The only con I found was that due to the larger panel, the twist feels significantly wider, and I think the flap length will be a little short for some folks.

But really, if you can wait about 2 months, you’ll get a much nicer Wintec. The original models will still be available, but I have a feeling they will eventually phase them out.

#26

I love the wintec 500 dressage. I’ve had two, currently have a new/used one after over 2 years of trying to make treeless work for me. I have a rather tall with prominent withers
arab. Maybe they work better on this build of horse. The 500 dressage is said to have a shorter tree than the Isabel. That I don’t know first hand. One of my riding friends is a vet and she said that in vet school, when they learned about saddles and fitting, the teacher said that wintecs with the adjustable gullet, were one of the best saddles. I guess it depends on who you ask. One thing I know, when I was looking for another one, I discovered that they re-sell very quickly and easily.

#27

Just remember that the ‘self-adjustable’ gullets can usually only be widened in an upside down V form, not in the upside down U form that a growing horse really needs. If the gullet pinches over the withers, this is where the stallion bites the mare to immobilize her during mating - ergo; your horse will likely not move very well.

#28

[QUOTE=Ambrey;3875855]
Another idea, OP, is to go for something adjustable and just have it fitted every year- I have a Schleese, but there are tons of adjustable brands out there (not just “1-2 cm” but fully adjustable) including Kieffer, Passier, Hennig, etc.[/QUOTE]

That is an excellent suggestion. My last saddle buy was 6 or 7 years ago and I still adore it. There was little in the way of adjustable choices then, that I knew of at least. You were limited to correct tree size and adjusting the flocking as necessary. I just don’t see this one going from my now retired tank girl to the narrow lease horse… and hopefully the babies will grow up fine and though are bred to be tanks, you never know how a saddle will fit til you sit it on the horse. I am spoiled by the comfort and balance of the current saddle so it is nice to know there are some options in other saddle lines. Not sure how the new passiers are, but I have had two that I loved.

Let the trials begin (I am not ruling out the wintecs either… sounds like they are either great or horrid depending on who you talk to) :lol:

#29

[QUOTE=InsideLeg2OutsideRein;3875862]
Check out the thread on the wow saddles (www.wowsaddles.com) – as far as inter- and ex-changability goes, pretty unrivaled. Mine is traveling across the ocean as we speak, so I can’t tell you yet if it’s as great as it sounds, but it sure was fascinating enough to me to give it a try :D[/QUOTE]

You are an evil person for pointing this out. I may have managed to make it through my life in blissful ignorance if it wasn’t for you. :lol:

Please forum post how you like it when you have a chance to ride in it a bit. I am also curious as to how much the price is when all is said and done.

#30

Update and ?

So… I have sat in the Isabelle and the Pro.

Hated the Isabelle. Way too much cantle, the twist was too wide and I was left with bruises on both thighs from the stirrup leathers. Ouch. (BTW, not saying the saddle sucks… just not the right saddle for me.) I like the adjustable tree and didn’t have a problem with the ciar panels though 2 rides with so much else going on is not really enough to judge.

The Pro. Liked the seat better though it took a few minutes to get used to. Narrower twist (at least it seemed that way) and less thigh block were much appreciated. Finish was great for a schooling saddle, tons of stick. One huge problem though… same huge bruises from the stirrup leathers. OUCH (again).

Both these saddle were borrowed and had regular leathers on them rather than wintec ones. Are they better? Is it just me or is this common? If I thought I could get rid of the ouchies, I would probably go ahead and get one as a utility saddle.

Just to clarify, the horse was pretty happy in both.

Thanks for the feedback! :slight_smile:

#31

My only experience was with an isabelle. It was at the barn where I boarded and at the time I was interested in getting a dressage saddle. I put it on my WB gelding and it sat on him quite well, definitely wide enough. I think it maybe have even been on the regular wide setting.

As soon as I got on him in the saddle he pinned his ears and humped his back up. Strange…VERY strange. I asked him to trot a step or to and he gave me the look like “lady if you make me trot with this on my back you are getting bucked off!!!”

So he DEFINITELY didn’t like it! But it might be just fine for your guy. I was actually really disapointed because there went my chance for an inexpencive saddle!

I have ridden in the wintec pro close contact saddle and I thought that was great

#32

Passing along some info…

My saddle fitter said that there are actually lawsuits filed against Wintec for their claims that these saddles fit all horses…They have apparently caused irreperable damage to some horses. I used to have one (Isabel). I liked it for myself, but it did not fit all horses. The wool is better than the air…more adjustable.:wink:

#33

You could try the Wintec webbers. They buckle down by your calf. I really like them. No bulk at all under the thigh, so nothing there to bruise you.

#34

I still have one of the first dressage Wintecs - rode in it for years then started using it to put babies under saddle. Wintec leathers have a “loop” up top (at least mine did) which means no bulge where the leathers attach to the saddle, so I never had this issue.

Perhaps go to a local tack shop and look at their Wintec leathers and see if you can try them/buy a pair - they’re usable on all saddles, not just Wintec but since they’re not leather I’m not sure how the saddle leather would hold up to the normal leather abrasions. Or see if there are any other riders with a Wintect in the area who’d let you “sit” on their saddle to see if it still causes your problems.

#35

I tried them once and hate them with passion. They put me in an awkward position, does not provide stability for either me or my horse, and the adjustable thing and CAIR are what I believe good in theory and first glance but bad in reality. OK. I know some people like them but just not me.

If you like your County, I would suggest that you look around eBay for a used county saddle. You may well end up paying less for a much better saddle, IMHO.

#36

I’ve ridden in both the Pro and the Isabel, in both flockings.
The Isabel does have a wider twist than the Pro, but the Isabel’s stirrups bars are postiioned further back and recessed more into the saddle. The Pro has a flatter seat and a narrower twist, but the stirrup bars are more forawrd than the Isabel. The Isabel gave me bruises on my seat bones as the twist is too wide for me, and negated the advantage of the recessed stirrup bars. The Pro was much more comfortable in the twist, but the stirrups were a titch too far forward.

The CAIR panels feel good to me and the horses I rode, but I was dismayed to see they are only guaranteed for 5 years. CAIR saddles can be reflocked with wool quite easily, by any saddler.

I also prefer the velvet texture of the Pro rather than the “pleather” of the others. Although its gets ratty looking pretty quickly in daily use.

I wish I could get the Pro with the Isabel’s set back and recessed stirrup bars and I would go with CAIR- standard flocking only lasts me 2-3 years anyway, so getting 5 years out of the CAIR would be a saving. But again, I was dismayed to see the whole saddle, although it sports a lifetime guarantee, that lifetime is only 10 years…

I am hoping to try the new models soon- our tack store doesn’t have them yet. The Pro is supposedly significantly improved.

ETA here’s the new Pro:
http://www.wintec.net.au/wintecDressage/performancefeatures.htm

It DOES have the recessed stirrup bars!

#37

I have posted before about the stirrup sleeve, but that’s what I have done with my Pro. I had bought a really good pair of leathers last year, and even on my old saddle, I still didn’t like the buckle under my thigh. I had a pair of stirrup sleeves made by Gary Mundy, and it has made my Pro feel perfect. My back isn’t near as sore riding in this saddle, than it was in the Largo. It has to do with leg position and the seat. I need the narrower twist, too, which is tough when you have an uber wide fjordX. The Pro actually does fit him way better than my old Albion and Duett. He has a fairly steep angle to his shoulder and the Pro fits much better than a hoop tree did. The Pro has such a close contact, I think that is my favorite thing about it. I am not sure how the new Wintecs would work on this horse, we just don’t need all the new padding and gusseting I saw in the pictures.

#38

The webbers that Wintec sells are really wonderful. They make a leather version too, and I knwo people who use them on other brands of saddles as well.

My boarder just bought a Wintec Isabell and she LOVES it. It really puts her in a perfect position. Fits her mare very nicely as well. I have a Bates jumping saddle and love it, but the Bates and Wintec dressage saddles do not work for me. Too much cantle and too flat in the pommel. I do wish I could have the CAIR panels added to another saddle I have though. My mare loves them, as has every other horse I have ridden in a CAIR panel. There have been quite a few.

I too have seen the guts of the panels, and they are not big balloons like many people seem to think they are. The air part is two very thin air bags, and the rest of the panel is foam and wool. The panels CAN be adjusted using standard flocking methods while still keeping the CAIR. There are flocking slots built in just like most other brands of saddles. I have done some minor adjustments to the front of my Bates.

The system will not work for every horse, but I can say for certain that it does not cripple every horse it touches.

#39

You guys thinking about these CAIR saddles need to go look at thread that I just posed on Off Course. I just had my Bates Caprilli restuffed with wool and posted pictures of the CAIR panels.
Never again.

They also have plastic trees

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