Wintec adjustable tree saddles. What do you think? Update & New ? post 30

[SandyHTF]

I have a County that I adore. I have a horse coming though that I already know it is going to be way too wide for. I was thinking that rather than buy another fixed width saddle, one of the wintecs might do. The two I saw were the Pro and the Isabell. Anyone use them? Do you like them? Are the cair panels a good add on?

I am on a pretty limited budget hence the wintec vs one of the higher end convertible tree saddles and I would hate to sell the county… I like it too much and still have a horse that it fits.

Thanks!

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Make sure you sit in them first. I thought the Isabella would be great (from the description) but the twist killed me. All personal preference, of course. I like a narrower twist.

[Ambrey]

Just in case you’re interested, though I’d point out this sale which seemed pretty good to me

http://www.horseloverz.com/COLLEGIATE-Convertible-Intellect-Dressage-Saddle-pr-202462.html

I have ridden in the Wintec Pro, and was not thrilled with the design, but I know some people love it. Good luck!

[Icecapade]

no bueno

I sat in them all at the same time the other day and I know some people swear swear swear by the isabella and I am soooo glad I didn’t just snap it up first chance… it killed my back. I’m round… okie I have a big ass- little waist and ample thighs and the rise even of a saddle that ‘fit’ and the flaps just made my already slightly S curved back go crunch crunch on the vertibra… plus the texture thing. no way. It was like uber velcro… now my AP wintec… don’t mind so much, but it is synthetic leather and the faux suade stuff so it is not nearly as grippy and I am up in 2 point most of the time anyway… thats what its for and why I own it. But all the dressage saddles… no me gusto… I got a thornhill but which is great for a budget… but they don’t make adjustables I don’t think.

[Elegante_E]

The CAIR panels can add some bounce and seem to cause the girth to need tightening once you get on - hard to do with a dressage saddle. Also, the CAIR panels have “empty” spots but they can be fixed with flocking - had my saddler do it when I used a wintec ap. Still, I’d go with the regular flocking if it’s available.

The Isabel is a long saddle and the panels come out fairly far behind which can cause problems on flat backed horses as the panels aren’t too soft. And yes, the twist is wide.

If you need to go cheap, then buy the cheapest wintec and deal with the issues if it’s not perfect (the stirrup bars are fairly forward which add to chair seat). Remember, if your horse has wide whithers/shoulders it may need a hoop tree which the wintecs aren’t - they are a V tree. So you may run into the wide gullet allowing the saddle to slide forward but the narrower gullet causing bridging. Still, if the horse is good with a V -tree you can probably fit it enough that it won’t hurt the horse’s back. Had a fabulous saddler who said he could fit Wintecs to any horse, if that helps (he could adjust the gullet bar for the horse).

[crazyhorses]

I have the cheap version (around 500$) and I couldn’t “feel” my horse. It was very difficult to send aids thru thighs, knees, ect ect. But I dunno if that’s the way it will affect everyone.

[dwblover]

I actually prefer the Pro Dressage, but the Isabell is nice also, IMO. I really am a huge fan of Wintec, and I now have a Bates adjustable saddle. I honestly think the CAIR panels plus a sheepskin pad can make these saddles fit just about any horse. Honestly, my horse preferred the Wintec Pro Dressage adjusted one gullet wider than he measured combined with a Mattes pad. He moved better and felt better in that combo than the custom fit Passier that I ended up selling. I think the only complaint with them is if your horse is super wide than they may not fit.

[Icecapade]

[QUOTE=dwblover;3873586]
I actually prefer the Pro Dressage, but the Isabell is nice also, IMO. I really am a huge fan of Wintec, and I now have a Bates adjustable saddle. I honestly think the CAIR panels plus a sheepskin pad can make these saddles fit just about any horse. Honestly, my horse preferred the Wintec Pro Dressage adjusted one gullet wider than he measured combined with a Mattes pad. He moved better and felt better in that combo than the custom fit Passier that I ended up selling. I think the only complaint with them is if your horse is super wide than they may not fit.[/QUOTE]

I got to see the CAIR guts of the wintec when I was trying them out… the idea wasn’t terrible… people talk about them popping… its not like a balloon under there, its a very small section of the saddle then the rest of it is flocked. I can’t see anything wrong with the system… just didn’t fit me at all. =)

[Lieslot]

And don’t discredit the new T6 Thorowgoods. See if you can ride in one (Dover will allow so if you wrap your stirrup leathers) and be surprised…

After long debating I eventually choice the standard T6 over my initial Anky for my high withered horse. I ‘never’ thought I’d ‘ever’ say this, but hej, it sits wonderful and looks far less synthetic then the Wintecs. They are so different from the earlier Thorowgoods, they have improved so much. And my horse is a happy camper now… it was a looooooooooong road. My Anky gave him ruffled hairs at the back, T6 purrrfect.

If your horse is wide, then no good, my other WB is very broad and it’s an absolute no go. But the narrower high withered cases, works very well.

I have to say the high withered model T6 they’ve got, has got to be for shark fined australian/new zealand TB’s, as even on my really high withered WB it sat perched, but the standard works as a charm.

Changing the gullet in a T6 is definitely less cumbersome & far quicker then changing a wintec gullet, that’s for sure.

[horsepix76]

Just like any other saddle, Wintecs will either fit your horse or they won’t. The shape of the interchangeable gullet has got to fit your horse, or the saddle will be uncomfortable for them. If the shape of the gullet fits the shape of your horse, you’re good to go. If not, its a waste of money.

I also have found with every Wintec I’ve sat in that the stirrup bars are really far forward. They almost always put me in a chair seat. Do they do that to everyone? I don’t know. But I would definitely see if you could get one on trial before you purchase.

[baymare]

I have an assortment of AP Wintecs that I use in my riding school, and I am not wild about them. Just as a previous poster said, if they fit they fit if they don’t they don’t, just like any other saddle. Remember, too, that the adjustable head only widens the front of the saddle, and if the throat of the gullet is too narrow (often the case with a truly broad back) then no matter how wide you make the head, the saddle still won’t sit well.

I dislike the Cair panels. They tend to be less laterally stable than a regular flocked saddle, and I don’t think they really “sit” as well on the horse.

Even with those negatives, if you have a horse that they actually fit, they are a good deal and virtually indestructable. And if one happens to get left out in the rain, who cares! But if I were looking for myself on a limited budget, I would be scrounging around for a decent used saddle rather than buying another Wintec.

[fuzzy.pony]

First of all, the TREE does not adjust - the GULLET does. The tree size stays the same, so the only part that “adjusts” is the part that sits over the wither. This could kinda sorta be useful if you have a horse who is filling out in just that one spot. There aren’t too many horses out there who only gain/lose weight/condition in that one particular spot. The panels on the Bates and Wintec saddles are crap - thin and not very big. And oh, by the way, CAIR is the most absurd system EVER and routinely cripples horses.

You could not pay me to ride in one, ever, end of story.

[Zan]

And oh, by the way, CAIR is the most absurd system EVER and routinely cripples horses.

Would you like to post some references in support of this statement?

[TXPiaffe]

I just bought a Wintec Isabell and my horse and I both like it. My instructor commented that my position was much better in this saddle than in the previous 2 or 3 saddles that I had tried. My horse was much more supple over the top and was really swinging through his back. So it gets a thumbs up from me.

[Ambrey]

[QUOTE=fuzzy.pony;3874013]

You could not pay me to ride in one, ever, end of story.[/QUOTE]

If you’ve never ridden in one, how do you know they suck so bad?

[fuzzy.pony]

[QUOTE=Zan;3874062]
Would you like to post some references in support of this statement?[/QUOTE]

Sure. Search the BB archives for CAIR and you’ll have plenty of complaints from BB posters. Here’s a few more from admittedly unverified sources, reached by googling CAIR, dressage, sore. You can do some homework on your own:
http://www.horsetackreview.com/review-display/9697.html
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php?Number=3450956
http://www.matchmypet.com/PetForums/WINTEC-Cair-VS-Flocked--%23-3030815.aspx

@Ambrey;3874101

If you’ve never ridden in one, how do you know they suck so bad?

I’ve ridden in them and tried to fit them, all with remarkable lack of success. Several client horses lame in a number of days, most client horses dramatically uncomfortable even with ThinLine pads. A client who is facing kissing spines from poor saddle fit.

I recently attended a saddle fitting clinic where the fitter noted that she could rip a Bates saddle apart with just her hands, no tools. Speaks to the tremendous quality of Indian-sweatshop made saddles, too.

Hey, just my humble opinion from decades of riding and teaching and saddle fitting.

[Ambrey]

Not particularly humble, if you ask me.

Look at the horsetackreview reviews-for every negative review, there are 3 excellent ones.

And there are plenty of trainers and saddle fitters who disagree with you, so I’d hazard a guess that stating your opinion as fact is overreaching a bit.

[monstrpony]

I’ve had a number of Wintecs over the years (I keep selling them cheap to needy students) and they have been satisfactory for the OP’s purpose. I prefer the Pro, as I like a narrower twist, but the Isabell is a “nicer” saddle.

I agree with the idea of using a wider gullet and a fleece half-pad. I would encourage a bit of experimentation in this regard to get the best fit on an individual horse.

I currently have one wide, curved propane tank QH and a more TB-type guy; I am able to get adequate fits on both of them with Wintec or Bates saddles.

It does not sound like the OP is prepping for the Olympics in this case, so I would suggest that giving the Wintecs a try is not an unreasonable strategy.

Clearly, one poster here has had bad experiences; not the first, not the last. Others have had good experiences. Weigh the evidence and make a decision.

RE needing to re-tighten girths, etc. I would suggest that the synthetic materials soften somewhat from body warmth, both on the horse’s back and under the rider’s seat. The fit and comfort/depth of the saddle will change after the horse/rider/saddle warm up, and the warmup effect will not be completely retained by the saddle material. This is different from a well-broken-in custom-fit saddle. But then, they don’t cost $6K, either.

[Gloria]

I rode in one of the Wintec AO and dressage module once to see how I liked them. My riding instructor liked them. Ouch. it felt like sitting on a big huge wooden ball above the horse. I could not move and I could not feel my horse. My 2-size-too-small $300 Collegiate was way better. I eventually got a used Albion dressage saddle and both my horse and I are much happier. I also think that the interchangeable gullet is one of the lousy ideas that onethe surface briliant.

I really think anyone is better off getting a nice used saddle, than a lousy new saddle. …

[SandyHTF]

[QUOTE=Gloria;3874729]
I rode in one of the Wintec AO and dressage module once to see how I liked them. My riding instructor liked them. Ouch. it felt like sitting on a big huge wooden ball above the horse. I could not move and I could not feel my horse. My 2-size-too-small $300 Collegiate was way better. I eventually got a used Albion dressage saddle and both my horse and I are much happier. I also think that the interchangeable gullet is one of the lousy ideas that onethe surface briliant.

I really think anyone is better off getting a nice used saddle, than a lousy new saddle. …[/QUOTE]

Much to think about in these posts. I suppose the take away message is that there is no magic bullet (or saddle).

It isn’t so much about a nice used vs affordable new… I was hoping there really was a chance of finding something that could grow with the new horse as she fills out and develops along with something that will adjust with and to the upcoming youngsters. I really can’t afford the equivalent of 3 more countys. :lol:

I’ll be doing the trial thing. Glad I didn’t impulse buy on ebay.

Thanks everyone!