Wintec - fit of the close contacts VS the APs for a fat backed horse...

[Starting-Point-Stabl]

I LOVE my Wintec 500 (Next Gen) AP saddle. Had it fitted twice on my horse. She is shaped like a loaf of bread, wider on the top, narrower going down the sides. My AP sits some what perched and will roll despite a W girth, a tail crupper and a 5pt breast collar.

I’ve never had first hand experience with the Wintec 500 Close Contacts… and have not ridden in a CC in YEARS.

The panels and the saddle in general looks flatter from front to back and like the panels may be shaped less… stuffed (?).

I’ve been trying to do some research on the Thorowgood “Compact” saddle. Doesn’t look like I’ll ever get to see one first hand with out buying one (and then sending it back if it doesn’t work).

Someone has a Wintec CC local to me for sale. Just thought I’d ask before I got in the car.

THANK YOU!

[Simbalism]

My friend has a Friesian/Clyde cross. We jokingly call her the “full figured woman”. She rides her in a Wintec 2000 AP. She did get an anti slip pad as the saddle would slip back some. With the addition of the pad, she does not have any problems with the saddle staying put.

[Finding_Serenity]

I had been riding in a Wintec Pro Jump on my boy, who, despite his frame, actually has a wide round shoulder.

Most saddles have what’s called an “A” gullet. It pinched his shoulders and constantly slid. We moved to a “U” shaped gullet: Thorowgood Saddles A used T8 jump saddle (cob tree, he has a short back) He and I are both adoring it! no more sliding as well!

[FatDinah]

My Wintec 2000 with an adjustable gullet has fit my WB/Arab gelding as well as other flatter back types, such as an Andalusian/mustang mare.

[kashmere]

I don’t have experience with the Wintec fit, but if you do decide to go down the Thorowgood route, I highly recommend them, I had the Broadback model for a Han/Arab cross who was built similarly to your description and it worked wonders. He was always super duper comfy in it. I also think they’re really nicely made saddles and comfy for the rider, too.

[Starting-Point-Stabl]

Hey everyone

Ok I hope these links come through -

My horse is not large at all. She is barely 14.2 and is not at all shaped like a barrel.

She is very chest narrow (anymore and she’d have both front legs coming out of the same spot), and very narrow into her girth groove, but her back is shaped like Gossamar http://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/33/91/1379406866-wait-a-minute-dracula.jpg (no kidding). And she isn’t ‘fat’. I mean you don’t look at a side view of her and go “OMG she needs to lose weight” fat.

The white Wintec gullet on her: https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10603735_10205570492531837_7340888538088764510_n.jpg?oh=5c772137e9c98c6e2a169c4df0bc3038&oe=568E8CCD

And the Wintec 500 next gen AP saddle on: https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10177219_10205570492771843_9178738847052972862_n.jpg?oh=5e78a9fcbf13f20b10178f1a92e23b8b&oe=5684DEFA

The backside of a Thorowgood T6 broadback / cob saddle (currently on Ebay):

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1ycAAOSwo6lWIlQ1/s-l500.jpg

The backside of a TG T8 broadback / cob (currently on Ebay):

The backside of a Wintec AP (I believe either a pro or 2000 since it’s suede):

http://images.craigslist.org/00M0M_eRtGCrBKC8p_600x450.jpg

The backside of the older style Wintec 500 close contact saddle:

http://images.craigslist.org/00z0z_bG1cLkRYnAi_600x450.jpg

The panels on the Wintec close contact seem ‘flatter’ and more ‘horizontal’ while the panels on the T6 Broadback seem very ‘stuffed’ and oval shaped.

I guess this was what the purpose of my post.

So I was wondering if something with less-stuffed panels, and flatter, more horizontal panels, would work better VS just a ‘wider’ gullet (because in the normal Wintec gullet selection she is in a WHITE and it does not sit down past her scapula, it is perched).

My only worry with a CC saddle vs an AP is the more forward cut flap. She is a typical short backed Arab, and she is very narrow in the chest / lower shoulders.

[kashmere]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2mKz0uP_K8

Give that series a try and see if it helps you out!

[no.stirrups]

As Finding Serenity said, the Wintec has a A-shaped gullet, so it will never fit your upside-down U shaped horse with any gullet. The Thorowgood saddles I only know by reputation, I’ve only seen a few in person, but they are made in England, and the English know their cobs! It’s a much more likely match.

[plaidbreeches]

I just bought a T4 AP Thorowgood broadback/cob saddle for my Clydesdale/paint cross because I was having issues with the channels being too narrow for his flat, wide spine on all the other saddles I tried on him. I’d say the panels are not as upright as the T6 picture you posted. I show it in this youtube video Like others have said, it’s more of a U shaped tree, sort of like a hoop tree but not quite. That may make a difference for your mare.
It’s also meant to sit lower over the withers for horses with very low withers, like cobs. Retails new at Dover for something like $699, my local Dover had one in stock for me to look at too. I ended up ordering a larger seat size because I found the seats run small in the Thorowgoods.

[Starting-Point-Stabl]

plaidbreeches -

Those were my next questions!

1. If the TG’s run smaller. They look like it. At the very least their flaps look smaller. I’m very comfy in my Wintec ap at 17" in the seat. While the flap isn’t large for me I could trim an half inch off in all directions and not be upset.

2. The lower pommel. My horse isn’t the worst mutton withered but she has small withers (and unlike a lot of mutton withered stock horse or even cobs, she does not have broad shoulders, she gets more narrow the further down her scapula you go). She is also just a degree in the direction of being lower in the front if you look at her wither / point of croup. Right now my Wintec with the white gullet (that perches on her) actually has my saddle two low in the front if you look at the pommel / cantle / middle of the seat equation.

I’m going to do a set of tracings today and compare them to what TG has on their website for saddle suggestions.

[Dr_Doolittle]

[QUOTE=Starting-Point-Stables;8370854]
plaidbreeches -

Those were my next questions!

1. If the TG’s run smaller. They look like it. At the very least their flaps look smaller. I’m very comfy in my Wintec ap at 17" in the seat. While the flap isn’t large for me I could trim an half inch off in all directions and not be upset.

2. The lower pommel. My horse isn’t the worst mutton withered but she has small withers (and unlike a lot of mutton withered stock horse or even cobs, she does not have broad shoulders, she gets more narrow the further down her scapula you go). She is also just a degree in the direction of being lower in the front if you look at her wither / point of croup. Right now my Wintec with the white gullet (that perches on her) actually has my saddle two low in the front if you look at the pommel / cantle / middle of the seat equation.

I’m going to do a set of tracings today and compare them to what TG has on their website for saddle suggestions.[/QUOTE]

Try Hastilow:

http://www.hastilowusa.com/

I had one of their saddle fitters come down from PA (unfortunately a bit far to come to you, I think–I’m in Va), and she measured my fat, witherless, flat-backed cob-shaped 3 1/2 year old WB filly, who has not yet been backed–I needed a saddle that fits her, though–and they were tough to find because of her shape! (I considered Wintecs, but after doing research I opted to go with the TGs instead because of their quality and adjustability…)

Hastilow has lots of TGs, and specializes in them. They wound up shipping me a T8 cob AP with an X-wide gullet. It was the only thing that didn’t slide up her low withers when she trotted on the longe, and though it does slide a bit from side to side when I put my weight in the stirrup (in spite of an anatomical girth and a non-slip pad :rolleyes: ), it’s pretty balanced on her back, doesn’t rock, has good wither clearance, and the tree fits her well. Girthed up tight with a rider on, I think it will be a good fit–with the lowest point of the saddle in the middle, and not too low on her mutton withers. Since she will GROW withers (please God!) over the next year, it will certainly need to be adjusted, but it was the best choice for the short term And yes, they tend to run small–but are HEAVEN to sit in!! I’m small (5’3", 123# with a 29 inch inseam), so the saddle works for me, but if you are taller you might consider going up a half inch.

Next step for me: sitting in it when I’m on the horse!

[Finding_Serenity]

My guy does have a bit of a wither and the saddle clears it on top and the sides really well as you can sort of see in the blog I have up for us. However he still has a wide set with the shoulders, and a well set girth groove (pear body, narrower once lower than halfway vertically)

I can ride 16.5 to 17" saddles, it’s a matter of how much “hug” I want. I’m very comfortable in the TG 17" seat, however I do have a short inseam (5’2", 115lbs and kids breeches go past my ankle bone).

And Hastilow was amazing for our fittings.

Additionally, you can always remove/fill more with stuffing. However if the basic frame doesn’t fit, you won’t get far by changing the stuffing.

[plaidbreeches]

Yep, as others have said you will probably be more comfortable in the Thorowgood flap wise if you are shorter. I have an 18" Thorowgood although my old Collegiate is a 17.5". I am 5’ 10" and my knees stick out a bit over the flap in in jumping length stirrups, but I had to choose the saddle that fit my sensitive gelding the best. He is not a fan of sliding saddles! I’ve yet to sit in the saddle on a horse though because we are still backing him.

[Bogie]

I guess I’m going to be the lone dissenter on the Thorowgood T8. I’d heard really good things about them and SmartPak had one in their clearance section that I could try. I found them to be “too much” saddle. Too squishy, too much padding, not close contact enough. The one I tried was the T8 A/P. I also found that their gullets fit on the narrow side.

I really wanted to like them but I prefer my old style Wintec Pro Jump better. Now, for a cob-shaped horse, you may find the cob tree fits better, but for the rider, I felt too removed from the horse.

I ended up buying a used Schleese monoflap jumping saddle for the same price as the Thorowgood.