Winter Woes - Extra Sensitive to Energy - What to do?

[HorseBuff]

Yes, we just retested her Vit E and Selenium after her surgery in April. She’s good.

I don’t hop off, this is before I ever get in the saddle! It’s quick. She likes to work. And, if this were the case, she’d be this way year round. It’s just in the winter and it’s every winter. She’s fine with just me and loves her job.

It’s very much the energy. She is worse when they canter and forgot about jumping.
We have several trainers, 2 of whom I work with plus a few others, all who have seen this and agree, it’s energy and she’s annoyed with it. It’s quite perplexing! Even the animal communicator has said the same.

She’s great about “things”. She loves obstacles clinics, working equitation, and we’ve done de-spook clinics with smoke, fire, etc. She’s a very smart, curious girl. She just has an issue with extra energy from other horses in the winter.

[CanteringCarrot]

How much Vitamin E is she getting though? You also tested her in April, which is different from the winter. Was she eating grass in April?

Also, regardless of the cause (unless it’s pain, then you’ve got to sort that) it can’t be allowed. I don’t give one iota if my horse doesn’t like the energy. That doesn’t need to be his concern. His concern is me. He’s not allowed to act a fool because someone else is cantering or otherwise existing.

Mine is a bit more reactive in winter because cold, young horse, and a little less turnout (in at night in the winter). I imagine if I let him he’d also react to higher energy (when someone canters, comes closer, or exceeds a walk). He’d probably love to find a reason for excitement and kick his heels up, but the answer is no.

[4horses]

My very good riding mare had one year when she was just miserable. I had the vet check her ovaries and everything looked fine but she was wanting to flirt with the geldings and then kick them and really just not herself. I firmly believe it was hormonal.

I would look at the amount of sugar and starch in her diet and would want her on the lowest feed for both… then look at sugar and starch in hay and see if you can make adjustments there.

Put her back on Regumate. Treat her for ulcers.

What I suspect she needs the most is exercise and lots of it. My friend has a mare and says “she dumps me off every winter. Some days she is fine and some she is not.” My friend has started turning her out prior to riding.

I would suspect this could be behavioral around other horses. She’s either nervous or uncomfortable with other horses around or in her space. See if she works better with more distance between her and the other horses.

[FjordBCRF]

What is the difference in her workload over the winter vs the rest of the year?

@HorseBuff

She gets turn out every day, all day, unless the weather is really bad. She also has a run out off her stall.

Is this less than during the nicer months?

@HorseBuff

She’s great about “things”. She loves obstacles clinics, working equitation, and we’ve done de-spook clinics with smoke, fire, etc. She’s a very smart, curious girl. She just has an issue with extra energy from other horses in the winter.

Do you do any obstacles with her in the winter? If you dont, that might get her brain working and more focused than just walking around a bare arena or having the distraction of another horse/rider.

On vitamin E, Horses do pretty well storing Vit E provided they are on grass going into winter. Maybe hers starts getting lower around Jan; they can get goofy if they are too low because it supports neurological function, muscle function, and helps reduce oxidative stress. Low levels can contribute to higher cortisol making the horse more anxious/flighty. You could try upping that some and see if you notice any changes.

[HorseBuff]

I definitely think it has a lot to do with her hormones. My first mare also had issues until we put her on Depo. Then she was wonderful, a completely different mare. We don’t use Depo anymore and the Regu-mate doesn’t seem to be working enough in the winter. She was great all summer and fall on it though.

How was the ovariectomy recovery? My mare just had colic surgery this past spring so I wouldn’t want to put her through a surgery anytime soon. I also know of someone who’s horse had an IUD for horses that worked fairly well.

[HorseBuff]

I’ll ask the vet tomorrow about upper her Vitamin E. She gets it year round because they are on dry lots but maybe it does get less over the winter when there is no hand grazing time. Good thought!

[JB]

How much of what product of E are you using?

[HorseBuff]

She’s already on a low carb - low sugar diet. She’s a breed where IR/PPID is common so I’m very careful about it. As I mentioned, she had her diet analyzed by 2 companies and 2 vets. We are doing great there.

She’s still on Regu-mate. She’s getting scooped tomorrow.

I honestly don’t think exercise has anything to do with it. She’s great when we are alone. Some days she’s OK with other horses. Some days the world is ending. She’s only reactive when they get big - cantering and jumping. It’s before we are under saddle. I always at least hand walk before I get on. I never just get on and ride.

[HorseBuff]

Nope, no grass yet in April. She’s been tested several times over the years. Same with the Selenium. She is also tested for IR/PPID. So far, so good. She’s negative for PSSM, Lyme (tested annually) and Anaplasmosis. She’s been tested for ovarian tumors twice. All good there.

[FjordBCRF]

It’s an easy, safe, and lower cost low hanging fruit thing you could try and see with if nothing else!

[FjordBCRF]

@HorseBuff

She’s negative for PSSM, Lyme (tested annually) and Anaplasmosis. She’s been tested for ovarian tumors twice. All good there.

Another probably long shot thought is testing for EPM. From what I saw after going down my own rabbit hole on that, that behavior could fit and some EPM horses have it worse in the winter. It doesn’t always present with the dramatic neuro issues. Maybe something to keep in your back pocket if nothing else.

The type and amount of vitamin E would be helpful especially since she is on a dry lot. They are not all made equally.

[awaywego]

There are some other tests that your vet could try to see if her behavior is hormone related. I talked to quite a few repro specialists while trying to figure out my mare. It sounds like you have been really proactive with checking for all health related issues so it’s another rabbit hole to go down.

For my mare, the surgery recovery was very easy - nothing at all like colic surgery recovery. But it really depends on where it is done and what kind of procedure is used.

[HorseBuff]

Thank you. I’m glad to hear it’s not too bad. I’m not ready to put her through anything too extreme anytime soon. I’ll see what other tests they can look into. It would be nice to get her some relief.

[HorseBuff]

No signs at all but I’ll add it to the list for the vet tomorrow!
Vets are happy with her Vit E so I’m not going to mess with it. I could add more if she feels it might be worth trying.

[luvmyhackney]

@HorseBuff

Some days the world is ending. She’s only reactive when they get big - cantering and jumping. It’s before we are under saddle.

That’s how my smart guy can get if he can’t join in the fun. That’s when he learns 5 meter circle figure eights are really hard work even at the walk.

He just gets worked up more in the winter as he isn’t able to burn his energy and keep his mind focused. Kinda like a cooped up border collie.

[endlessclimb]

While it’s great to analyze the “why”, the bottom line is - when there are distractions, you are not the most important thing to the horse. You need to change that.

Continue to investigate this-or-that as you will, but the way she is expressing herself is dangerous and unacceptable.

I know the horse world has trended into this “oh but they’re just trying to communicate!” mindset. Ok, fine, but you can set the boundaries on what is acceptable communication, and what is not.

Pulling faces = ok. Actually biting people, or reaching towards you to bite = not ok.
Slingy/snakey neck while staying out of the human’s space = ok. Full on bucking = not ok.
Tail swishy/dancy booty while grooming = ok. Actually firing a kick whether it misses or connects = not ok.

And on and on and on. She’s crossed into the “not ok” range. I don’t care if the horse is genuinely in discomfort - they are not allowed to kick me, bite me, act like a kite. It’s a black and white line. The answer is no, 100% of the time.

God forbid something happen to you - who will want a horse who needs so much kid gloving to do even basic handling with? God forbid your financial situation changes and you absolutely must sell - how do you explain “yeah she gets absolutely stupid in hand from January to March” or “you can’t groom her without her trying to smash you.”

[HorseBuff]

I’m not asking this or how to train my horse. I’m asking if anyone has had similar and what may have worked for them.

[HorseBuff]

If that were the case she would be like this all the time. She’s not. I was told the same with my first mare. Didn’t work and actually made her worse. Her’s was hormones and was fixed with Depo (no longer allowed). I’m pretty sure my current is also hormone related. We’ll see what the vet finds this am - scooping day…

[luvmyhackney]

And I shared what I do when my horse acts like your horse does. I make him work harder so he focuses on me.

Could there be an underlying pain or anxiety… of course but either way he doesn’t get to act in that manner as it’s not safe.

[endlessclimb]

Well, then best of luck to you in all your horsey endeavors, and may there never be any challenges that you face!

Enjoy your scooping - you might be scooping your brains off the wall if she lands one of these acrobatics she tries without you telling her “no mam, that doesn’t work for me.”