You show this mare over the winter when you can’t even get on her in the indoor?
Unless you’re showing, depo is “allowed.” Put her on depo for the winter if you’re so sure that’s the answer. If YOU believe she’ll be better on it, she probably will be, just because of your own energy with her and how you handle her.
So what if it did? Who among us has our horse’s attention the entire time they’re in our presence? No bad habits, vices or behavior. I don’t buy it for a moment.
And yeah, we sure do bring the same parts of ourselves to every horse and every relationship. If you figure out a way for that not to happen, please let us know your secret. OP is looking for insight, not bashing.
If this is strictly a health issue, then why does it matter whether you are alone in the arena or if there are other horses in the arena?
If this is strictly a health issue, then why does it manifest only 3 months out of the year?
If this is truly only a health issue, she should be unmanageable all the time, year round.
If you feel you need to rule out some more health issues, of course, by all means. Have at it. But I am going to agree that this is a training issue. You might not like that answer, but based on what you described so far, it sound pretty obvious to me.
All my horses seem to act different in the winter. Don’t know if it’s the chill in the air, or less riding, or less daylight hours, or what it may be. But, I still wouldn’t use that as an excuse.
Your horse is making the decision to NOT want to work and NOT do what you ask, and instead throw a temper tantrum. Without seeing it, it’s going to depend on how it needs to be handled. Some horses will get even more pissed off if you “get after them”. However, you’ve got to do something to make her understand that it does not matter what’s going on in the arena around her. That’s the bottom line. She doesn’t get to decide she doesn’t want to work when she can’t have the arena to herself.
If when you try to “work on focus” and it doesn’t work, that’s where you need to figure out WHY it isn’t working and what you need to do to get it to work.
Can you possibly post any videos of you riding her when she is doing these things? I’d hard to suggest what to try without seeing how you ride and what you are currently doing.
Just know, that every time you are unable to end on a good note, she is “getting away with it”. And her bad behavior will continue because she has learned you can’t/won’t make her do the job that is asked of her.
If I can make a barrel run on my horse, with the rodeo announcer shouting, a full crowd screaming, bulls thrashing around in the bucking shoots behind the 3rd barrel, cowboys throwing their ropes around by the start gate, and have my horse FOCUSED and go in their DO THEIR JOB and ignore everything else, well, talk about overcoming “energy” obstacles.
So if I ask my horse to trot down the fenceline, past other horses who might be galloping, I expect them to maintain that trot, on the course I have set, at the tempo I have set. Because that’s their job and that’s what I asked. I don’t care what else is happening around us. It’s irrelevant.
If they chose to deviate from the job I asked, then I address it for the situation. Correct as necesary, and re-ask them to go back to that job they were supposed to be doing, and carry on with it. If they deviate again, put 'em back.
Myself personally, I have zero tolerance for bucking and things of that nature. I’m not afraid to whallop one for that or boot 'em in the belly and let them know that is NOT okay. While I try my best to set them up for success, sometimes things just happen but I always want them to know where that hard line is and when they cross it. Rules are rules and consistency is key.
Hormones can have a huge impact on a mares behavior. I have a mare who always rides the same (in season or not).
I also have a mare, that when she’s in season, I basically treat her the same way I would a stallion. I put a stud shank on her and carry a whip. When she’s Not in season, she’s on the aids, sensitive to the bit, and 100% focused and willing. If she’s in season, she completely goes dead to the leg, leans on the bit, is distracted and will try to drag you after the geldings, then try to kick/strike or squeal at them. She’s almost a completely different horse in her responsiveness to the rider. I can tell you the moment I get in the saddle, whether she’s in season or not, just based on her responsiveness to leg pressure from the rider.
This same mare completely ignores my own gelding and has no interest in him whatsoever.
So if it is a hormonal problem you can either work around it by tracking cycles and planning events accordingly… or you can try managing with medications.
I can’t tell by what you are reporting if your horse is hormonal vs. having excessive energy from not enough turnout. Alternatively, if she’s seeing other horses working and running, she may instinctively want to run, buck, and play in response. How often is she ridden and worked? She may need more riding and work during the winter.
She could have a general phobia of “strange horses” and that may be why she acts up around other horses. I trail ride a horse that is great solo, but put her with strange horses and she jigs the entire ride.
I think it’s hormonal. I’ve known several mares who have to have their Regumate dose upped at various times in the year because they blow through it, and they can’t take breaks even in winter.
I’m not discounting the health vs training issues, I promise
But the above really can be a health issue, since hormones are highly regulated by the amount of daylight hours, which can make abnormal behavior a health issue, especially in the middle of Winter with the shortest daylight.
IMHO this mare needs a thorough reproductive exam by someone truly qualified, from the right blood work to proper ultrasounds of the ovaries.
Serious question: do you expect a horse to hold a left lead because you taught him to do so despite a bad stifle that makes it nearly impossible for the the horse to do so?
And if not, how is that any different? Good luck training a horse through pain.
ETA: the OP’s horse seems to have been checked for just about every other physical reason. Why not check out the mare parts? There is a reason that women have gynecologists - we have a whole different set of parts and issues that can go with them!
it depends on your definition of “excuse”. Do they allow it to continue? Sure! And then then reprimand the horse over and over again despite the horse continuing to try to tell them they’re UNCOMFORTABLE
Far far too many people simply don’t understand that horses are living, breathing, feeling animals who have a body, just like a human. They can’t use words to tell us anything, they can only behave in ways to try to let us know things aren’t right. It’s then up to the person to see what’s going on, understand it, and try to figure out how to help the horse
I think endless is asking more about tolerating big, dangerous behavior, regardless of the cause, vs drawing a hard line of “hey you CANNOT do that” on dangerous behavior.
It’s entirely possible to allow room for a horse to express themselves and have an opinion while saying hell no to stuff that risks significant harm.
Yes, absolutely, they need to be able to tell us something is wrong and it’s important to give them space to do it. We don’t need to give them room to kick us in the head and really no issue is an excuse for that.
Myself, I don’t just allow dangerous behaviors. But within that I also have to listen to the smaller ways they communicate too. If I don’t want them to shout then I have to learn to listen to the whispers.
I will tell a horse that dangerous behavior is NOT okay. But then I will keep searching. Keep getting the vet out. Keep checking the training/environment.
If the training isn’t sticking, to me that’s usually a sign there is something pain related going.
I expect a horse to lead next to me without trying to kill another horse and endangering other people around us, no matter what. Yes. I do.
This isn’t physical in the sense that the horse can not do it. They are only doing this behavior in the presence of other horses. If the mare was pinning her ears and swishing her tail, even snaking her teeth out a bit, I’d call that fair communication from her. But trying to kick them into another dimension to the point the handler leaves because of how dangerous the situation is? Nope. That doesn’t work for me. I don’t care what’s going through her head, she can’t do that in response, while I’m on a line with her.
I find that sometimes you’ve got to build trust, too, so they know you want to hear those whispers. If they’ve not been given space to communicate in that way, they can shut down. It can feel very out of the blue when they go from fine fine fine HOLY SHIT NOT OKAY because they’ve learned people don’t want to hear the quieter feedback and they hold it in until they really can’t anymore.
Spent last summer doing just that–working slowly, focusing on building trust–with my little filly, because she just wasn’t communicating until she was so overwhelmed. Interesting thing to work through because her lack of communication is very easy to read as willingness and being agreeable (by everyone, I wasn’t the only one!) Tricky tricky.
Interesting to consider if that sort of thing may be at play for the horse here as well.
I 100% agree that at some point, a horse still needs to understand that humans cannot be a target in any way, even if they’re trying hard to communicate something’s wrong
At that point it’s unfair to the horse to continue to put them in those compromising situations until a lot more remedial training has been done, a VERY thorough physical/hormonal evaluation, etc
Yes, maybe forevermore, in the Winter, this horse can’t stand the sight or “vibe” of other horses, but that means the humans have to not put the horse in the position
I don’t really believe for a minute that it’s other horses’ “energy” she’s reacting to, not with
Honestly @HorseBuff I think you need to remove the idea that it’s other horses “energy” that’s in play here. This is either about as-yet undetermined hormone issues which is making her very anti-company, or there’s something else going on during Winter months that’s upsetting her and she takes it out on other horses. It’s not anyone’s “energy”
I don’t see what her Vit E level was when tested in April. If low normal, then absolutely I’d add more, but also, we need to know what she’s on and how much
hand grazing won’t provide enough E, so that difference isn’t making a difference
If Depo worked, and you’re not showing, put her back on that. If you do show, then maybe it’s time to not show for the Winter so you can use the depo while you work on figuring something else out.
This I don’t disagree with - keep a distance while you teach her to put a lid on it when she’s with a human. Then incrementally move to normal distances (2 horse lengths is all I’d expect from a very moody mare, we’re not talking drill team maneuvers). I don’t believe that the horse should be kept from the situations entirely - that’s avoiding a big hole in the training, which is leading and manners.
Absolutely. Step WAY back in the training and work from there
Maybe this is simply a mare who gets extra spicy in cold weather. If you assume that, then you have to train differently. If this is the case, then it’s clear there are gaps in training, so focus on that. Get help if needed, because a horse like this can blast through several warning signals in a hurry before a less educated eye can see them happening, much less react to start shutting down the unwanted behavior