Wobblers

[IPEsq]

When my big guy was 4 and we found his neck issues I was scared he would be a Wobbler based on how fast he showed pain. My PPE vet (out of state) was stunned when my vet called to consult with him. We imaged as well as we could without myelogram. I wasn’t going to put him through that unless it would have been for insurance with the intention of not waking him up from anesthesia.

CSU looked at his measurements and images closely and felt he had less than 50% chance of spinal cord compression, and we went with sports medicine therapies which did help. But of course I was a wreck during that time, having had the horse only a few months and thinking I’d have to put him down. Not that he had a very easy life after that.

I have to say that the fear I saw in my client’s horse when he started to become neurologic periodically was very upsetting. He’s the one I mentioned with the same kind of issues with the farrier. He was a pretty advanced beginner safe horse, totally willing to please. And he would just start bolting and get wide eyed and panic about what appeared to be nothing. The switch would flip on and off for a while before he started to show deficits all the time. He didn’t live near me at the end, but I know his retirement wasn’t the smoothest or very long.

And the most horrible thing I have witnessed is my friend’s horse with shivers who went from schooling for a dressage show one morning to not able to use his hind end that afternoon. I came out after work to see a horse who had been struggling for a long time and the fire department was there trying to hoist him up with the vets medicating him to see if they could get him to stand. He was exhausted and beat up and he could not use his hind legs at all. They had to pull the metal fence of his run out of the ground to get the trucks to him. My horse was his friend and stared and watched the whole thing out of his window while everyone else got distracted with hay.

Those are the kinds of images you can’t forget, and it’s just horrible for everyone, human and horse. One of my biggest fears was losing my own horse in similar fashion if his neck got too bad. He did not have a kind passing either with the colic, but at least I didn’t have to guess at when it would be the right time.

You are doing the right thing. It’s horrible, and I’m very sad for both of you, but have no regrets for doing it before you discover something catastrophic.

[RedHorses]

Just (((hugs)))

[leheath]

You are for sure making the right decision and my heart aches for you and your horse. I had to put one down at 7yo from a hock injury that just wouldn’t heal (turned out scar tissue had caused major circulation issues so it kept accessing inside and we couldn’t get antibiotics to it) and it was an agonizing decision not knowing if we just gave it more time it would get better (and she wasn’t super lame). Remember, horses don’t care how long they live. Only we do. They live in the moment and they don’t understand why some moments are good and some are bad…they only know they are in danger as a prey animal during the bad moments.

So many hugs to you for making the right decision at the right time for your horse. He is blessed to have you as his mom.

[Peggy]

Yes, you’re doing the right thing. In addition to everything that’s been said here, the feeling of vulnerability that a prey animal feels when it’s physically compromised (cannot escape from prey) messes with its brain. My horse Skipper never fell or even stumbled, but his sweet, kind nature somewhat evaporated and our hand walks became explosive. I don’t know if it’s because the wobbler’s made him feel extra vulnerable or if there was some sort of intermittent pain associated with the compressed spine. A friend who had a wobbler said that the vet told her that her horse probably experienced bizarre, frightening shooting pain associated with his particular version of it.

Hugs. Many hugs.

[SolarFlare]

A friend of mine had to deal with this, with her giant Clyde cross. The trainer said he started to just feel a little strange under saddle, like he wasn’t quite sure where his hind legs were all the time. After multiple exams and diagnostics, he was diagnosed with Wobblers. My friend boards out, so she thought about two scenarios: one was if he continued on indoor board, that barn staff would have to handle him - what if he fell onto someone? He would likely injure them badly - he was huge. She considered putting him on outdoor board so nobody would need to handle him (except her), but then she thought about how he might go down in the field and not be able to get up - what if he was there for hours overnight before he was found? She didn’t feel either situation was fair, so she did have him euthanized. Unfortunately she had to fight with the insurance company, who apparently wanted to wait until he was an emergency, which she was unwilling to do (they did end up finally paying up).

I’m sorry you have to deal with this - I know it was an agonizing decision for my friend too.

[Bristol_Bay]

OP, I feel so bad for you. Such a young horse.

My vet noted mild ataxia in a long ago exam. I don’t remember having a conversation about it or thinking much of it. Recently he started losing his footing, dragging his toes, resting his hind leg heavily in my hand as I pick out his feet. He just wasn’t right. The vet was out Friday and agreed with my suspicions that it’s neurological in nature. I haven’t had any further testing done.

He’s 17 and I’ve had him for ten wonderful years. It’s heartbreaking to feel him declining. Vet says he doesn’t look bad and is rideable for light work, so I tacked up and took him for a walk yesterday. After half an hour he was dragging more and just felt wrong.

Right now we’re starting on a course of NSAIDS to see if that helps him. Where do we go from here?

Has anyone had a myelogram or the basket surgery done? Is it unrealistic to consider it for a 17 year old pleasure horse?

[Peggy]

@Bristol Bay Things to consider include neck radiographs, EPM, vitamin E, pentosan…

I’m assuming the vet did a neuro exam?

A vet told me that there wasn’t much point in doing a myelogram unless you were looking for evidence to euthanize or considering basket surgery. Personally I wouldn’t do basket surgery bc I’ve never seen what I would consider a good outcome and I’ve seen one horrific example. YMMV.

Sorry you are going through this.

[Bristol_Bay]

@Peggy

@Bristol Bay Things to consider include neck radiographs, EPM, vitamin E, pentosan…

I’m assuming the vet did a neuro exam?

A vet told me that there wasn’t much point in doing a myelogram unless you were looking for evidence to euthanize or considering basket surgery. Personally I wouldn’t do basket surgery bc I’ve never seen what I would consider a good outcome and I’ve seen one horrific example. YMMV.

Sorry you are going through this.

I wasn’t there for the exam, but I assume he did. We don’t think it’s EPM because he’s always had very mild symptoms. From what I’m reading now, it sounds like the basket surgery isn’t something that would restore a horse to full function, just keep them on their feet and pasture sound.

It’s slowly sinking in what this means.

[Lunabear1988]

@Bristol Bay so heartbreaking. Jingles for your boy.

Like Peggy said, course of action is usually neck x-rays, tests like EPM,Lyme, vitamin E.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹My vet wanted my horse reexamined by the big clinic. No mylegram for my horse because it wouldn’t have changed the outcome and was $3500 without insurance. It also can be risky I have heard but I think that depends on the horse.

The clinic I initially went to said basket surgery wouldn’t make me horse 100% and rehab is really intense. But my horse has other issues which factored into the decision.

I hope it’s nothing that serious for your horse!

[Lunabear1988]

@Bristol Bay could it be arthritis that might be managed with injections? Stay positive, don’t let my story worry you until you know what’s going on. Jingles!

[Bristol_Bay]

@Lunabear1988

@Bristol Bay could it be arthritis that might be managed with injections? Stay positive, don’t let my story worry you until you know what’s going on. Jingles!

Thank you!

I will need to write down all my questions and talk to my vet again. I did ask about neck XRays, and he said he’d need a Myelogram to make a diagnosis of CVM, so maybe that means because of the history, arthritis can already be ruled out.

[skydy]

I’m so sorry @Lunabear1988 . You did well to catch his neuro symptoms and pursue them with the vets.

You’ve made the right decision. It’s so much better for him, to do it sooner rather than later when he’s hurt and frightened.

[sweetsalute]

I’m grappling with the same thing at the moment. Horse was fine, then suddenly wasn’t. She’s shown some improvement with standing straighter, better movement etc. Gallops around the paddock, I saw her rolling the other day and she’s bright and happy. But trimming her feet is getting very dicey. The fronts are difficult, backs almost impossible and getting dangerous. Trying to give her some more time in the hopes it was an injury rather than neuro.

I’m so sorry for your loss, I know how devastated I will be if that’s the decision I end up having to make

[beowulf]

@Bristol Bay

OP, I feel so bad for you. Such a young horse.

My vet noted mild ataxia in a long ago exam. I don’t remember having a conversation about it or thinking much of it. Recently he started losing his footing, dragging his toes, resting his hind leg heavily in my hand as I pick out his feet. He just wasn’t right. The vet was out Friday and agreed with my suspicions that it’s neurological in nature. I haven’t had any further testing done.

He’s 17 and I’ve had him for ten wonderful years. It’s heartbreaking to feel him declining. Vet says he doesn’t look bad and is rideable for light work, so I tacked up and took him for a walk yesterday. After half an hour he was dragging more and just felt wrong.

Right now we’re starting on a course of NSAIDS to see if that helps him. Where do we go from here?

Has anyone had a myelogram or the basket surgery done? Is it unrealistic to consider it for a 17 year old pleasure horse?

What made your vet think ataxia versus suspensory injuries? The bold are pretty common symptoms of PSD when there is also stifle soreness involvement (which is almost always). Hope you can get some answers. :no: ((hug))

[Lunabear1988]

@sweetsalute I hope your girl is okay!

I’m pretty paranoid and definitely one to get the vet out just in case. Unfortunately I wasn’t paranoid (my paranoia is almost always justified ugh.) Even my vet said, I was hoping you were just paranoid. But nope.

[Bristol_Bay]

@beowulf

What made your vet think ataxia versus suspensory injuries? The bold are pretty common symptoms of PSD when there is also stifle soreness involvement (which is almost always). Hope you can get some answers. :no: ((hug))

I brought that up as well, but he’s had symptoms for a long time, now that I know they were symptoms. For instance, he’s always had trouble with lead changes, and he bunny hops at the canter at times. On the lunge line, he cross canters quite a bit. Those are things that never interfered with my riding him, but they were there when I got him at age 7.

[beowulf]

@Bristol Bay

I brought that up as well, but he’s had symptoms for a long time, now that I know they were symptoms. For instance, he’s always had trouble with lead changes, and he bunny hops at the canter at times. On the lunge line, he cross canters quite a bit. Those are things that never interfered with my riding him, but they were there when I got him at age 7.

Gotcha. Sorry you are dealing with that. :no: Any balance issues with this horse?

The symptoms all in:

• losing footing (is this behind or up front? is it a trip or a slip?)
• toe dragging
• cross cantering
• bunny hopping
• difficult lead changes

If someone presented me with that list of symptoms, c-spine problems wouldn’t be my first suspect (stifle and/or suspensory + SI would be) - but your vet has the advantage of a bit more education than me, and eyes on the horse :winkgrin: It’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility that a neck issue could cause all of that, since neck issues can cause atypical symptoms – but generally you see difficult-to-pin forelimb lameness as one of the primary early symptoms of c-spine issues.

Cross cantering and cantering issues typically seem to be caused by SI and suspensory issues.

[IPEsq]

@beowulf

Gotcha. Sorry you are dealing with that. :no: Any balance issues with this horse?

The symptoms all in:

• losing footing (is this behind or up front? is it a trip or a slip?)
• toe dragging
• cross cantering
• bunny hopping
• difficult lead changes

If someone presented me with that list of symptoms, c-spine problems wouldn’t be my first suspect (stifle and/or suspensory + SI would be) - but your vet has the advantage of a bit more education than me, and eyes on the horse :winkgrin: It’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility that a neck issue could cause all of that, since neck issues can cause atypical symptoms – but generally you see difficult-to-pin forelimb lameness as one of the primary early symptoms of c-spine issues.

Cross cantering and cantering issues typically seem to be caused by SI and suspensory issues.

Hind limb issues can also come from the neck. Happened to a horse I have mentioned on here. Presented much like SI issues. And even though he didn’t have hock OA, for some reason hock injections usually fixed some of the lead change and cross cantering stuff under saddle and they were injected roughly annually for years.

But one day those stopped working. SI injections had no effect. Even injected stifles with no effect. He was kind of always a “lazy type” so it was hard to pin down a toe drag on lack of engagement or a physical problem.

And then came some behavioral changes and some clear neuro symptoms, albeit intermittent (unable to back, stumbling, trying to sit down when you pick up a foot, random spooking and bolting)

Imaged the neck and there was significant arthritis from C3-T1, and C6 was quite abnormally formed. Unfortunately, it was too bad at that point that treating the neck didn’t help anything. Looking back, he’d probably been mildly neuro his whole life but able to compensate until he wasn’t. He was always the more clumsy type (yet also built downhill and bad quality TB feet), and had the periodic crosscanter issues and stuff like that. He frequently would cross canter or skip behind on the longe even before it got this bad, but it got more frequent.

It really depends on what nerve roots are affected whether you’ll see more of the problem in the front end or the hind end. And there’s also a difference IME between actual spinal cord compression and nerve root issues from arthritis, old fractures, joint effusion, in terms of the type and extent of deficits you might see.

[beowulf]

@IPEsq

Hind limb issues can also come from the neck. Happened to a horse I have mentioned on here. Presented much like SI issues. And even though he didn’t have hock OA, for some reason hock injections usually fixed some of the lead change and cross cantering stuff under saddle and they were injected roughly annually for years.

But one day those stopped working. SI injections had no effect. Even injected stifles with no effect. He was kind of always a “lazy type” so it was hard to pin down a toe drag on lack of engagement or a physical problem.

And then came some behavioral changes and some clear neuro symptoms, albeit intermittent (unable to back, stumbling, trying to sit down when you pick up a foot, random spooking and bolting)

Imaged the neck and there was significant arthritis from C3-T1, and C6 was quite abnormally formed. Unfortunately, it was too bad at that point that treating the neck didn’t help anything. Looking back, he’d probably been mildly neuro his whole life but able to compensate until he wasn’t. He was always the more clumsy type (yet also built downhill and bad quality TB feet), and had the periodic crosscanter issues and stuff like that. He frequently would cross canter or skip behind on the longe even before it got this bad, but it got more frequent.

It really depends on what nerve roots are affected whether you’ll see more of the problem in the front end or the hind end. And there’s also a difference IME between actual spinal cord compression and nerve root issues from arthritis, old fractures, joint effusion, in terms of the type and extent of deficits you might see.

It can, but forelimb lameness is considered a primary symptom when diagnosing c-spine issues. Or at least, that is always what I have been told when discussing c-spine myopathies with vets, having had a few go to major clinics in the area and having watched neuro tests be done.

The above list of symptoms would more commonly be pinned on SI and/or stifle and suspensory, than neck in my experience. But, like I mentioned and what you corroborated, it can certainly sometimes transpire behind.

[IPEsq]

@beowulf

It can, but forelimb lameness is considered a primary symptom when diagnosing c-spine issues. Or at least, that is always what I have been told when discussing c-spine myopathies with vets, having had a few go to major clinics in the area and having watched neuro tests be done.

The above list of symptoms would more commonly be pinned on SI and/or stifle and suspensory, than neck in my experience. But, like I mentioned and what you corroborated, it can certainly sometimes transpire behind.

No, I disagree. Papers from over 10 years ago might say that the lesion would be in the upper thoracic if the symptoms were only in the pelvic limb gait and if all 4 legs or front end only, then the lesion would be cervical. But that is not really the case. But note that I am talking about these gait abnormalities that are not responsive to flexions, blocks, or treatment of the limb. Grade 2 neurologic gait deficits can certainly include a bunny hop canter (and/or cross cantering or skipping behind), trouble with lead changes, and toe dragging, as well as knuckling over when stopping or slipping out behind. You might also see circumduction of the outside hind on a circle (from mild to obvious) and things like that without noticeable front limb deficits. Front limb deficits may also not be lamenesses at all but could include trouble backing (front feet will drag), wearing of the front toes excessively, difficulty going up and down hills, tipping or having trouble with changes in footing.