UFP? That alone doesn’t make a horse do what you’re describing. Have you ever seen the leg lock in either an extended, or forward position?
Holy hell :eek: You need a new farrier yesterday. Until you get these feet fixed, you are not going to resolve the problems above them that this has caused.
Sometimes that is the best advice, believe it or not. Sometimes we do have to “break” things in order to get a more clear picture of where things are wrong.
However, in this case, I don’t know why someone has not pointed to these feet and said “Ummm, yeah, we can chase symptoms for years but until THAT disaster is fixed, we’re not going to fix anything”. Start there. Fix the feet, and while they are being fixed, it’s going to require some regular body work to keep on top of the issues they are causing
OP, are these “after” shots of a recent trim? I agree that whatever is being done to that LH, it’s no bueno, definitely not working. What’s interesting to me is that the wonky foot has such a curved (jammed) hairline, but the other hind appears to be relatively straight (despite the flare showing at the heel/quarter). As I often find myself saying these days, I would be curious to see the sole of these feet. Maybe it’s just the angle, but they look fairly long, esp. at the toe.
As to your last point, JB… I wish more vets would start there. But I think there is some tip-toeing, because clients (not you, OP) want immediate or quick solutions - let’s inject this, let’s x-ray that, use this drug, etc. and because vets & farriers often work together as “healthcare” professionals, so you have to be careful pissing off your fellow service providers.
I would definitely support the suggestion of radiograph-assisted trimming (or shoeing) and getting those feet in proper order before springing for a bone scan. Sometimes it’s the ripple effect. I don’t know when Oakhurst’s next farrier forum is, but I believe your farrier would need to present the case to them for consideration (which only works if you want to keep using him).
@JB, @Heinz 57 - I contacted Oakhurst in regards to the farriers forum.
Given that nothing has been mentioned to me by my farrier ever, I’d assume he knows nothing about “negative P3 angles” and I agree her toes are too long in back esp on the “good” foot (the right hind). But ya know, I’m just another bimbo with a horse. Didn’t go to farrier school, so what could I possibly know…
And yes, the pics I posted are this week, day after she was trimmed.
I’ve met exactly ONE farrier who was willing to work with a vet without ego getting in the way. Unfortunately, using him is no longer an option.
It’s really not uncommon to have vet and farrier there at the same time, take X-rays, sedate as needed. Even a great farrier doesn’t have X-ray vision. Reason for this approach doesn’t mean the farrier necessarily caused the problem. But he’s got to be willing to take in the information to help be part of the solution.
So sorry! And I have had a Talented Lameness Guru give me the same prescription.
But I think your horse sounds plenty “broken”!
If you want to go in the farrier direction, you might try getting in touch with Kurt Fisk. He is on FB.
He’s a farrier in Bend who was trained by Cornell’s Mike Wildenstein. Kurt isn’t Mike, but he was trained by one of the best farriers on this whole cotton-pickin’ continent. And he might be able to confer with Mike (who is now kinda reclusive so far as I can tell) if your horse’s case is really a stumper.
MVP, Mike Wildenstein is around now… for the past 2 years or so. He’s been giving clinics to farriers (we went to one in Aug 2016). Just FYI in case you need him.
That’s a shame. My husband is a farrier (we work together now) and we have a number of vets we work with regularly, including one holistic vet. Often a joint vet/farrier appointment turns into each professional bouncing ideas off each other. I hope you can find a vet/farrier team that has this sort of relationship.
I assume you are on the Right Coast? I am not anymore.
I don’t think randoms like me have the SuperSecretMikePhone that farriers do. But I am glad to hear that he’s still in the game. Thank you for letting me know. The man knows a lot and he’s a great resource. He taught me so much while he shod my horse at Cornell… now my goal is to never buy a horse that needs a farrier as good as Mike…LOL… but srsly, too.
OP, I can’t tell you anything about their training or quality, but there is a new vet-farrier game in town in the Willamette Valley-- Northwest Equine Lameness and Podiatry in Dallas. They are on FB.
The one vet I asked about them perhaps had a wee bit of a conflict of interest and so perhaps viewed them as Young Turks. Whatever… I’d call and make my own decision.
You have done a laundry list of tests for problems with the horse’s skeleton. What about soft tissue? And what is that huge gouge in his heel? Seems like it happened about the same time your horse’s problems began? I will go back and read all the comments.
The above was written 2 days ago. I ran out, and forgot to finish my comments — But, having a horse who has soft tissue (suspensory) problems, I am now very big on considering soft tissue right along with x-raying joints. We wasted a Full Year ditzing around with boney problems; meanwhile, the suspensory was getting worse and worse.
Farriers and vets should work together. Always. Be suspicious of farriers who do not welcome a vet’s opinion. Or a vet who does not carefully listen to the farrier. I finally took Goober to a Master Farrier/vet who has worked with a top farrier and they solved the problem. (Dr. Dick Mansmann and Kurt von Orme) in Chapel Hill, NC. Both my regular farrier and vet welcomed their input with open arms.
I would not be so quick to discredit “make it or break it” idea. But not in this case. I have done it in those damn cases with a horse who is NQR in the hind end. Of course, you do not go overboard, but vets are not prescient; they need something to focus on. If you keep riding the horse the same way you were when the NQR started, you might well make it worse, so the NQR turns into a definite issue. In the long run, the horse will be sounder sooner.
went back and looked again at my pics… I don’t know about the gouge at the very back of that hoof. Probably just the camera angle making something minor look funky.
I know you said you xrayed everything, how did you get a look at the SI?
I like the idea of the bute before an appt, im going to try that on one of mine that has one bad leg for the farrier, its hard to tell if its that leg, the diagonal front, or the attitude within.
Ahh yup, I wasnt sure if there had been some advancements in this area in technology.
I had a full exam done on mine and they couldnt find anything wrong, his regular massage feels that his stifle that side is to blame for a few things.
Its like looking for a tiny needle in a 500kg haystack sometimes huh
SI can be imaged using transrectal ultrasound, but alas no new x-ray technology for it. It often takes a vet who’s very good with ultrasound to find the smoking gun on SI problems.
OP given that the foot issue is not subtle I think you’re smart to start there.
Just to update, I have a vet appt on Aug 3. Will be doing films, and I have invited my farrier to join me…(yeah, like that’ll happen). I have spoken to this vet on the phone and she is aware of my situation.
Hi obsidian_Fire
I know this Is a very older thread but I have exactly the same issue you are having and wondering what your outcome was or any tips for what helped in your situation?
