FWIW, some original wool Butets I’ve seen have not had especially bulky panels compared to their foam counterparts. I mean, the knee rolls at least used to be flocked as well (which I learned after a friend’s got so flat and she told me what Butet said it would cost to fix them), and those were modestly cushy before they completely deflated. There can be a lot of variation in panel design and construction and attachment, including with wool.
Check out Prestige. Love them! I have 2 different models. Tried some French saddles out,
when my first 2 Prestige saddles started getting old. But the Prestige ones fit my horses and me way better, so ordered 2 more. My Meredith actually fits all my different sized and shaped horses, with slightly different pads underneath. But, my Michel Robert fits my huge shouldered horse better. And Prestige has lots of other models. Wonderful saddles! They cost less than French saddles. Very durable too. Plus, they can be widened or made less wide, if Horsey’s back changes or you buy a different horse. I had a couple French saddles in the past. Good saddles, but I definitely prefer the non-foam Prestige.
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I have been riding in British brand saddles since the 90s when they pried my old Crosby PDN from my hands. I have never had anyone give a second glance or care what I was riding in. Never. For my gelding I have a Black Country Quantum for my hunter saddle and a Black Country Eden for my dressage saddle. I bought an Albion K2 as a hunter saddle for my mare. On paper it fits her great but she’s kind of meh about it and I’m kind of meh about it too. Nothing to do with the flocking. The Quantum just felt like home immediately for my and the gelding and the K2 just seems fine. She doesn’t do dressage. Or so she thinks. She’s about to learn otherwise.
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I am all about the wool-flocked Portos Elite Stubbens for my big warmblood hunters- I have 4 of them. They widen a bit with use if your horse needs it to, The accommodate their large sloping shoulders like nothing else I have tried. All french saddles are built on the same tree and they just don’t fit the big shoulders properly, IMO.
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That was similar to the feedback I got from the mobile high end consignment shop. She deals almost exclusively in French foam saddles because that’s what is being bought and sold for h/j these days. I brought in my back tracings when she had her van at a big local show and we popped them into all her saddles. She didn’t say that all the brands used the same tree, but she did say my mares (wonderful) shoulders wouldn’t fit in anything like that, unless maybe there was one foam model of Equipe from Argentina that she could custom order. I tend to totally believe her because I’m sure if she could have found a saddle and potentially made a sale, charged for a barn call, etc why wouldn’t she? I was open to trying foam though my independent fitter loathes them, but apparently it’s not to be.
I also have noticed that the “grippy” leather top surface on those saddles wears through and can’t be replaced.
I’m willing to believe that the foam saddles if they fit the horse and rider can give competitive advantages at the levels that matters. But I feel that in that regard they are like high tech performance sneakers that have a very short life. I feel like people may chuck their running shoes after one marathon? Certainly years ago when I did fitness classes multiple times a week, sneakers died within a year. Unlike leather boots that can be polished and resoled.
Without getting into the materials science of it all, the foam used for saddle panels is extremely different from the foam used in running super shoes and is built to retain its resilience and resist degradation for many years. Saddles that are used 10 hours a day on multiple different horses have different demands placed on the foam and will break down sooner, but for those of us who ride 5-6 days a week on one horse, we’ll probably need new billets before we need new panels. When I’m looking at used saddles, I generally start budgeting for new panels when I’m looking at something around 10 years old, regardless of whether it’s made of foam or wool. They both compress and get lumpy over time.
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Oh, this is a good idea
Equipe is made in Italy.
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Saddle fit is a real rabbit hole. I agree that there is a group of fitters who believe the foam panels are evil. But if you look at some of the pros, some of our most decorated professionals with gold medals, some of them are riding in a saddle where the pommel is right on the withers. No wither clearance at all. No one would need to run a hand under the panel to know that this saddle doesn’t fit. I think even our best professionals miss important elements of saddle fit and we can’t just assume that because they’re successful, the horses’ backs are probably fine. These animals can put up with a lot they might not need to.
I’ve had my vet tell me that some professionals get sponsored by a saddle company and will know it doesn’t fit their horses and try to send saddles out to wool flockers to try to get the panels to solve what is really a problem with the tree.
I think there are foam panels that can work for horses. I prefer wool personally, and have a Renaissance that I love. I highly recommend working with Cindy at DFW tack, she is super knowledgeable. I also really prefer to buy used bc I’ve been burned so often on custom saddles.
But really I think the tree is the thing that needs to fit.
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Ah my mistake.
I’m going to copy my response to a similar post from August. I’ll add that I ride at a CWD sponsored barn and my CWD is at a reseller as I’ve purchased 2 new Stubbens (different model for each horse) that are a MUCH better fit for both my OTTB and my warmblood.
I have been down saddle rabbit hole hell for about 5 years. Maybe more? I’ve bought Antares, Beval, CWD, Loxley and Stubben. I’ve used an independent fitter that is certified by the British Society of Master Saddlers as well as about 5 other reps that were associated with a variety of brands. I have a warmblood and a thoroughbred, both I’ve owned since they were babies (6 months and exactly 3 years). Both have had soundness issues that were exacerbated if not caused by poor tack fit (one is 11 and the other 9 now).
Based on experience and research now I won’t buy another foam flocked saddle. I won’t buy point billets (most of the French brands have point billets) unless I have a fat pony with no withers (which it turns out I might; 3yo Chincoteague Pony). And I want long tree points and a tree that fits my horse, and VERY few brands use long tree points because it makes the saddle far less “adjustable”. If a brand makes one or two tree size, that tells me they don’t care that much about fitting the horse. NO tree can fit a shark finned thoroughbred and a flabby warmblood hunter. Both of my horses are now in wool flocked saddles with long tree points and no point billets and both my veterinarian and bodyworker have commented how great their backs look and feel. It has been a helluva journey.
I highly recommend the Noelle Floyd Equestrian Voices podcast episodes (I think they were in the fall of 2022) about saddle fitting. I have learned a TON from that fitter and the resources she recommends. And my husband thinks I’m opening a book store with books about saddle fitting. It is frustrating how difficult it is to find information about fitting saddles (and bits and bridles for that matter) that isn’t provided by someone trying to sell you a saddle. I just don’t believe that people with a vested interest in selling something can be truly objective.
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Are you riding in monoflaps? I’ve never seen a French jumping saddle with a point billet. I currently own saddles from 3 different French brands, none of which have a point billet.
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Which books do you recommend?
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I should have clarified, but it was a copy/paste. Most dressage saddles have point billets.
Just just a word of caution with the French saddles, as I am sure you already know, they are very hard to deal with if something goes wrong. As a person right now experience this with Butet, I don’t want to see anyone get stuck like I am. I feeling totally backed into a corner and feel like I have to spend almost $10,000 on a saddle to get something for my horse.
The “fit guarantee” for Butet is kind of garbage. I had the Butet rep out in February to fit my horse for a saddle. The rep gave me some suggestions but only brought one saddle for me to try which was the same as my current one just a standard tree vs a wide tree. I asked about the 2 other options and the rep gave me their opinion. I finally settled on a saddle but when it arrived in JULY, it didn’t fit. It was sent out for some panel modifications in August and got it back in September. The saddle STILL didn’t fit and I had an independent saddle fitter out who told me that the saddle has wrong shaped tree for my horse.
Butet is ONLY willing to work on the saddle I purchased and ONLY willing to adjust the panels free of charge. The independent saddle fitter wants to see my horse and I in a different tree and Butet has every so kindly offered - huge sarcasm there - that I can indeed get a different saddle, but I would be required to pay what I feel to be a very hefty bill! I haven’t even had the saddle in my possession for 3 months.
So, in short, make sure, a MILLION percent sure, that the tree is the correct tree for your horse before falling for the fit guarantee that Butet has
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Yes. Good advice for every semi custom brand.
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Yikes! That’s terrible. Sadly, many brand reps either aren’t educated enough to understand whether their saddle fits your horse or are more concerned with the sale. French saddles typically have one tree shape and customize the fit through the panels. As you’ve learned, if the tree is the wrong shape, you can’t (always) fit it through panel modifications.
I hope you find something that works for you at a fair price. (And maybe sell the Butet on?)
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I just announced for a big $50,000 hunter Derby up here in Canada……let me put your mind at ease that what brand of saddle does not enter the judges mind (nor do helmets just better not be pink 
)….unless they were to put you in the wrong position thus affecting how your horse gos! And when I was in the hunters (TBIRD etc) I was in a Prestige, now I’m in a Black Country Ricochet….buy what fits not what’s trendy, judges honestly don’t care!
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I honestly don’t think people are that worried what a judge thinks. They’re more uncomfortable about what the trainer and their peers in the barn think. The weird peer pressure in a barn and the countless saddle unboxing videos have convinced a lot of people to buy saddles that don’t fit their horses. Even folks who don’t show feel the effects of that.
I wish more people could be as open minded as you are Eclipse, I think a lot of horses would go better if they did.
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You’re probably right.,thanks for thinking I’m Open minded, although its all my trainers….she refuses to take sponsors as she doesn’t want to advertise just one product or make everyone go in the same tack! Also I’ve never had the $$$ to show a ton, just enough to do a few large shows over the past 20 plus years Lol
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