I have been keeping track of a few horses while they prepare for races can someone give me an idea of what are good times for dirt and turf workouts? and what do the mean by handily? and is breezing supposed to be a good time as an indicator of speed?
Any other explainations are welcome. Just trying to learn…
Thanks
[QUOTE=ivy62;3839247]
I have been keeping track of a few horses while they prepare for races can someone give me an idea of what are good times for dirt and turf workouts? and what do the mean by handily? and is breezing supposed to be a good time as an indicator of speed?
Any other explainations are welcome. Just trying to learn…
Thanks[/QUOTE]
Someone can probably explain this better than me, but here goes
Breezing means the horse is well within himself and not being asked to run. Even though he may work a fast time, he looks as if he is doing it very easily.
Handily means the horse is being asked a bit.
Different clockers have different perceptions about what is handily and what is breezing.
It depends on the track about workouts…
You’ll see good horses work anywhere from 47 to 50 seconds for 4 furlongs
5 furlongs-59-1:01-anything faster than these times is really fast for a workout, and these times are fast in the grand scheme of things anyway.
It depends on the horse. Some trainers like to work the horses relatively slow, and give the horse one blow out just to see what they have. A blow out is when they want the horse to exert himself in his workout and put out some effort. A blow out effort is a faster effort than his previous workouts.
So when you see the horse had the best workout speed of all those at that distance on a given day, (bullet) it doesn’t necessarily mean that horse is faster, right? But the horse just might be?
[QUOTE=justalittlex;3839296]
So when you see the horse had the best workout speed of all those at that distance on a given day, (bullet) it doesn’t necessarily mean that horse is faster, right? But the horse just might be?[/QUOTE]
Correct, the horse may not be the fastest one out there…he was just the fastest one in the workout at that distance at that track on that particular day, and the trainer may just have decided to work him really fast or give him a blow out on that day while the other trainers decided to take it easy on their horses.
…deciphering workouts is part science, part art, and a lot of luck!!!
Thanks-I hope I can get this. I am really interestd in being able to look at the stats and figure out if the horse is doing well…Any hints?
would you consider this a good workout?
Date: January 25, 2009
Track: PALM MEADOWS TRAINING CENTER
Distance: Five Furlongs
Time: 1.01:20 Handily
Track Condition: Fast
Surface: Dirt
Rank: 8/38
Okay you guys got it all backwards. First, let’s start with the basics. A “good” workout is considered to be ONE FURLONG or one eigth of a mile in 12 seconds. Workouts are not recorded at a distance of less than 3/8th, so for that distance you would aim to work 36 seconds give or take. For a half mile, 48 seconds. For 5/8th, one minute flat. It stands to reasons, obviously, that horses will tire as they go, so for a decent horse at any track in the country, 36 is more or less obtainable. 48 a little less popular, and the average horse running for a decent tag will often work 1.01 and change or 1.02 but not as often a minute flat. HANDILY means the workout was EASY for the horse. Think of the definition of doing something “handily”. For example, “handy” hunters. A workout done “handily” is quite a compliment for a fast work. For example, one of my favorite fillies, High Resolve, who just won the Hill N Dale F/M Sprint Sunshine Millions, almost always works “handily”. She covers the ground effortlessly, the rider usually has a hold on her, and never goes to the stick. Think of handily as loping along very quickly. BREEZING on the other hand, is going for broke, but within reason of course. Most trainers want their horse to put in a respectable work both for the horses fitness and mental sharpness as well as for the betting public. To maybe give you a better perspective: I often am just a breeze rider for trainers. This means, while I often work on salery for one or two trainers and gallop their horses, I work for numerous other trainers but I only breeze their horses, I don’t gallop them on a day to day basis. For babies, they generally start out on working 1/4 miles slowly. As they get closer to their debut, they will work a few couple of 3/8ths in respectable times and often work a half or 5/8 out of the gate to their gate card right before they race. For older horses, a trainer my tell me to “two minute lick/clip” a horse. This is a quick gallop when a trainer doesn’t want a published work and refers to galloping a mile in 2 minutes, or 15 seconds a furlong instead of the standard 12. A trainer may tell me to “send him” or “let him roll” or just tell me to “have him give whatever he’s got”. Generally these works will by 12 second furlongs, ideally, and be “breezing”. Sometimes, if a horse is really on his game, I will be able to take a long hold, sit back, and enjoy the ride instead of having to send him by whipping and smooching and throwing crosses. This kind of breeze will generally be reported as done “handily”. It depends on the clocker. I think I have covered everything asked. Feel free to throw out any more questions.
Olympic, good post!
And to answer the question, yes that work would be a good one, not super fast, but 101 and change is respectable.
Handily and breezing and their meaning also depends on which coast you are looking at.
[QUOTE=Blinkers On;3839719]
Handily and breezing and their meaning also depends on which coast you are looking at.[/QUOTE]
That is what I was going to say as well. For the most part I just ignore the designation because its open to interpretation so isn’t meaningful.
True that and trainers have agendas and good luck interpreting them…
Is there anyway to know if a horse has a good potential based on workouts or is it just luck then?
[QUOTE=ivy62;3840219]
Is there anyway to know if a horse has a good potential based on workouts or is it just luck then?[/QUOTE]
A talented horse may post bullet works, if it is allowed to by it’s trainer and/or rider. It is nice to know that the horse is at least CAPABLE of going that fast. Horses without some measure of talent can’t go that fast. But it can not be interpreted as a fully reliable indicator that the horse is going to be successful at the races. There are a number of other situations that come into play in a race situation, which may interfere with the horse being able to run like he CAN run. Working in the morning is a lot lower mental stress situation than at the races in the afternoon, even when he works in the company of several other horses. Some horses may work very well in the morning, but are unable to deal with the other added stresses of actual racing. Some horses are posting those fast times because they are frightened of the thought of racing, of their rider, are stressed, and are trying to outrun that fear. These sorts of horses are unlikely to ever win a race, they are more likely to refuse to engage competition in a race situation, and back out or bolt away from the race. Horses who post bullet works just for the sheer joy of speed and competition are likely to carry that feeling to the winner’s circle in the afternoon. So you do have to have some inside information on the actual horse involved to be able to more fully able to use the information that workout times can supply.
Posting a fast workout increases the chances of injury that may occur in training, especially with an immature horse. Speed kills. But on the other hand, it may be unwise to ask the horse to race without ever having his body and bones experience true racing speed. So it is a bit of a trade off, a judgement from the trainer what he wants his horse’s body and mind to experience before he races.
On the subject of “breezing”, “handily”, and “driving”, these are the three notations that a workout can be given by the clocker. I dunno about eastern tracks, but here in the west, “breezing” means that the rider has not truely asked for much effort from the horse, is probably still not flat on the horse’s back, just letting the horse roll underneath him, the horse is volunteering this effort. So if you get a bullet time with a “breezing” notation, this tells you that the horse both has talent, and wants to use it without being asked. Often, the current stars at the races will be the ones to record a bullet with a “B”. Other times, a horse may post a slow time, recordable, but closer to a 13 second furlong time, and be given a “B”, if he is just out for a milder fast work, more than a regular gallop, but not being actually asked for speed.
A bullet work with a “handily” notation, means that the horse is being hand ridden, rider is mildly asking the horse to actually work, with his hands. “Driving” means that the whip is being used to complete the work. “Driving” is not often seen in morning workouts, but not unknown to happen. It’s not a good sign for the horse’s future if he needs the whip to put out an acceptable effort in training.
Workout times recorded in the morning are kind of like freejumping a hunter or jumper prospect, and using that as an indication that he is going to win a class at a horseshow. It shows some basic talent, but in competition, there are a number of other questions asked of the horse that are important before placings are awarded in competition.
Some trainers will use workout times to either “advertise” a horse for sale that he would like to be claimed, or “disguise” a horse that he does not want claimed, or does not want the public to be aware of the horse’s talent (lengthen the odds). So there can be a number of different things going on when a horse records a workout time.
The workout you posted is an average decent workout time, ranked the eighth fastest out of the full number recorded on the day. Maybe not fast enough to do damage, but fast enough for the horse to get some improvement in both strength and stamina at that distance.
Well, I see I have a lot to learn. Wish I could spend more time studying it. I have always been intrigued by the track but I know the downside also…It is a fence line…I hope one day I might be able to pick a winner from the paddock and DRF…Do bloodlines really play a role or is it just heart? Which you cannot breed…
…make sure you keep in mind that the track also has to do a lot with times. You might have a horse that will breeze a 35 at Turf Paradise (fast track), but will breeze a 39 at Mountaineer (slow track) or Charlestown…especially during the winter months on their winter deep track. I’m not sure how Palm Meadows surface is, so can’t answer how that work compares as a 1:01 would be a bullet work at some tracks, but on the slower side at others where they breeze 59 or 1:00. Also, I know very few trainers that want their horse to work ‘as fast as they can go’ in the morning. They like to see them work, yes, but not everything. There’s no money in the morning… I’ve seen plenty trainers that just ‘loved’ bullet works in the morning so they could talk – but when it came time to race time those horses had nothing left or were too sore.
And you always have to keep in mind that sometimes the workout you see on paper may not have been from the horse listed… it does happen, sometimes by accident, and sometimes not…
well I will just have to go on faith then…I have no way of knowing this is right or wrong…
Any suggestions that people have on what to look for good or bad would be helpful and appreciated
Thanks
Hey Guys :
Thank You so much for explaining it the way you did. It really helps to be able to come to you experts and get the basics on the Racing Industry.
So tell me this.
Is there a manual or a " Guide For Dummies to Racing 101" … :lol:
I am so new to this and want to learn so much . But being a Show Hunter person it is all foreign lanuage to me. LOL
come on where can I find books on this great knowledge.:yes:
Just keep asking questions!
