Working and Competing Amateurs--What's your advice?

Some more thoughts:

You’re going to be short on either money, time, or sleep/patience unless you’re independently wealthy and don’t need to work. The tradeoffs become more stark as you rise up the ranks: you add responsibilities, both personally and professionally, which cuts right into riding time.

So you get options. If you choose a job that gives you more free time, you’re likely sacrificing on salary. That means you should find a safe and cheap barn and do most of the training yourself. Save up for regular lessons or the right clinics, but the full-care barn life isn’t for you.

If you choose a job that gives you lots of money, you are likely sacrificing on time. Choose a barn that’s as close as you can get it to your home or work. Get your barn routine down to a science. Potentially utilize a trainer to keep your horse fit and sharp (especially if your job requires travel).

Regardless, your career will last decades, and there are lots of hungry new hires out there. So your first years’ priority should be learning, establishing yourself, and getting good at what you do. But you have to do it with balance because as I mentioned previously 30 yrs is a long time and you as a person are more than your career (and also your company is unlikely to be as loyal to you as they want you to be to them).

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From your post I assume we are similar ages. And based on the details provided I’d say wait at least a year in your new job before getting back into horses. Horses and eventing will always be there. The first few years establishing yourself in a career and finding who you are post college won’t.

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My advice is to start drinking heavily.

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@clanter: that is too funny! Like I said in my post, that’s why I work at the office on Friday - best day for commuting.

@cnm161: this advice is excellent.

So much good advice on here! Not really anything to add other than if you want it bad enough, you will figure out a way to make it work for you. I’ve spent many, many years, wondering how and if I could ever compete at the level that I wanted to be and with the quality of riding I am striving for, and also have a full-time job. I’ve always thought there should be some distinction between an amateur who is actually a working amateur versus an amateur who functions off the funds of their parents, or spouse, it’s such a big difference! There’s been lots of sacrifice, heartbreak, doubts, and also some good fortune along the way, but wanted to give you some words of encouragement. I am a business owning working amateur living my dream life with horses right now as my competitive hobby. If anyone’s interested, I’m also writing a blog about my experience with a travel grant to Europe this summer. Cheers and keep pursuing your dreams . Katie

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And you had an amazing result at Arville!! Congratulations!

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I’ve been following this thread and find the discussion about new hires / junior employees and PTO to be interesting. In general, I agree that focusing on work the first year or so is likely excellent advice. I’m sure OP will find out quickly what the PTO scheduling and culture is like in her new office. At my organization, a junior new hire’s ability to take PTO on a handful of Fridays would be constrained by how we accrue PTO (per pay period not as a lump for the year), how far in advance she needed to schedule said PTO (we can’t request to schedule PTO if we don’t already have the hours accrued) and if those particular Fridays were in high demand for PTO (Fridays before holidays get scheduled quickly and might already be booked to staffing limits by the time a new hire is able to request). A person mid career coming to our org as middle management or higher might have a different experience.

More specifically, I would caution anyone starting their career to consider how tightly they pack their PTO. What I mean is, if you (g) are traveling to show using PTO and not getting any actual rest that could have a negative impact on work performance. Some people thrive on go go go, and others (:raising_hand_woman:t2:) would also need to schedule an additional day of PTO after a travel show (or travel of any sort) to rest in order to not be miserable the first day back at work.

Outside of PTO things, I would say finding the right facility and schedule are key to riding and working. For me, I rode after work when I boarded. For my climate, I needed a lit arena for that to work year round (folks in colder climes might need an indoor). Having my riding clothes packed and ready to go the night before was always helpful. Not getting sucked into the barn time warp was hard, but staying at the barn until 10 pm on the regular didn’t work with the rest of my life.

If you don’t already have house pets, my advice would be to keep it that way until you are more established.

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This has been a really interesting, and at times, eye-opening discussion, about how people are making it work. I’m solidly middle-career and have been remote since 2019. Looking back, I don’t know how I made it work 20 years ago, when I worked in the city - it was a train ride to home, to grab my car (I couldn’t afford to park downtown daily), and then commute from there to ride. Now I’m remote and have a huge amount of flexibility most days, and yet it still seems pretty hard to do it “all” - and I think a big part of that is the cost of everything. I have been seriously going back to working in the city again - I could easily get a 30-50% raise if I did so - and while I know I’d have less time to ride, I would have the $ to pay someone to do more of the barn work I do now - and send a horse out on training board so ideally I would have BETTER rides when I do have time to ride. <<That is what I think is an important point that some others have made: sometimes the quality of the time is greater than the sum of the time.

Thanks for sharing your blog! I just read all of it, and some of your points I relate to so much! I would love to follow you more closely & hope you continue to blog!

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I’m shocked how many responses I’ve gotten on this! I really appreciate all of the insights into the variety of workplace cultures and the advice that has been shared. I started my new job this week so I have had the chance to learn more about my company specifically and between that and the tips shared here I feel comfortable with how I will manage riding going forward.
To acknowledge a few points here that have been shared multiple times, I thankfully keep my horse 15 minutes from where I live at a full-care barn where they offer feeding and exercise options besides riding. I also do already have a dog, so making time for her is a high priority as well! My company also has built-in mentorship programs which I plan on taking advantage of, and I am cautiously optimistic about their openness to using PTO to maintain work life balance, including hobbies and “extracurriculars.”
Now that I am starting to gain a stronger understanding on my company’s culture I think a lot of my questions and the “it depends” points that have been raised here are answered for me, but I’m glad that others have also found this thread valuable and it’s been great to hear about the different paths y’all have taken with horses and careers!

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This is excellent food for thought. When I started working, I didn’t have a horse of my own and rode with a local friend for free. I generally worked a 40 hour week and the first company I was at a lot of the working was web surfing even though I authored all our safety data sheets, managed our sample program (filled, packaged and sent out chemicals), did some QC work in the lab, did internal and some plant process audits towards the end. It was a SMALL company and I got bored. I had time but made peanuts there.

Somewhere between there and now, I decided I’m not going to give my life to a corporation. This happened around the time I was probably work at least 50 hour weeks on a major project, having to drive twice as far to a different location where the project team was working out of, work from home some evenings and weekends, support go-lives at terrible hours at home to work with China/India, and having my ehlers danlos flare up enough to get a diagnosis and medication that was life changing.

Now, I’ll be 40 in a month and my leadership knows I have no interest to climb the ladder. Im also working remotely from home with limits that possibility if I wanted to. I make 6 figures (just squeak in at the low end), work 40 hours a week with a lot of flexibility provided my work gets done. I have been with this company 11 years so I had built rapport before going remote and that is only through Americans with Disabilities Act that I’m able to.

Having a roommate or two at least will help along your way too. My ex husband didn’t bring in enough for groceries so I financed everything. Don’t do that for anyone. My now husband makes about the same I do, he is in better shape for retirement than I am as he started maxing out his accounts from day 1. I contributed the 7% match. Contribute to your retirement! Having someone or ones to help with the daily living will open up your finances quite a bit.

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It will also change over time. The company may re-organize, change focus, try to adjust culture, lots of things. Or – you just get a new manager, or transfer to another work group, and suddenly everything is different.

It isn’t always easy to get a deep read on company culture, or work group culture, before accepting employment there. But internet channels such as reddit etc. may offer some insight. Always remembering that those with complaints are far more likely to go public with their opinion than those who are at least adjusted, if not satisfied, to the situation.

And what the company HR says about it may or may not be “directionally true” (an informal phrase from a former workplace :sweat_smile: ). Sometimes they are serious about giving the heads-up, in order to scare off bad fits and cut down on ‘hiring mistakes’. Sometimes they are clueless, lying or don’t care.

During one-on-one interviews with people in the work groups, do one’s best to establish a level of communication that will encourage them to be forthcoming about a) culture generally and b) time off in particular.

Fair or not, the comments above are very, very true, in my experience.

BUT – You don’t have to work for the same company forever. You can take a few years in a higher-paid, more demanding workforce, keeping your personal life to a minimum (in every respect!!!) and your work life to a maximum, bank some $$ and resume cred.

Then in however many years, take that impressive resume and experience and transition to a smaller community and company with less pressure, going in at a higher level and salary, and really build your own life. A good many smart people have done this brilliantly.

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You will eventually anyway. /s :crazy_face:

Although this is an expensive and erratic method of career management, you will find some people pursuing it with vigor.

Other substances as well.

Not recommended for maximum career success & happiest life, though. :wink:

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This is what I wish I had known in high school, college, and during the first 5 years of my career. I learned it along the way, maybe had a bit of exposure to it early on, but not enough substantively (and some not at all) to make some different choices. I may have done everything the same, though.

Basically: Some career fields, and certain types of employers, are highly-demanding and behave as if they own the souls of their workers.

Some are more rigid on schedules and time off. Some are prone to time-off cancellations.

If you need specific time-off dates, rather than just scheduling around the work flow, this information matters. A lot.

Choosing your field of study & work, and the kinds of employers you want to approach, is the way to set up a life with the level of control over personal time that suits you best. Or, you can be unaware of these trade-offs, and/or “doing what you love”, pursuing certain talents regardless, and risk being scheduled right out of a personal life.

People often hold idealized visions of how companies work. Then they meet reality. Companies are like people – a mess.

Examples of things to know …

Publicly-traded companies and sizable private companies are highly likely to be our-way-or-the-highway environments. Their priority constituencies are their investors (shareholders) and the markets, often even above their customers. They have legal and other requirements that must be met. Employees are there to serve the company interests. That’s what they hire people to do. They assume that applicants know this.

Such companies usually pay well above scale and have excellent benefits. They also have expectations in return. And less flexibility for individuals.

Management positions, aka responsibility for people & things – Depending, this can be an anchor chain to the job. It’s not the routine tasks, it’s the big unexpected stuff with consequences that demands your immediate attention, even during PTO. That’s why they have managers.

Accounting, finance, including A/P, A/R, etc. – Predictable closing schedules, but horse shows, weddings and other events may unhappily schedule right over closing. During the ‘critical periods’ you virtually have to be hospitalized to not be present. (Even then they will be on the phone with you.)

Any job with hard-and-fast calendar schedules is likely to have conflicts with horse and personal events that schedule over the critical work periods.

[Early career when I was in grad school, a final exam was scheduled on the night of closing, when we had to be present to review prelim results. THAT WAS AWKWARD AS HELL. It was the only interference from school, so I managed to live through it, barely.]

Marketing, communications, promotions, advertising, etc. – You’d think you could plan and work ahead in these fields. But, notoriously dependent on other people and service providers, who are notoriously late, and don’t always deliver what was asked for. Unpredicted schedule adjustments are a stressful part of life.

Any job with high dependencies on others is subject to schedule changes due to the lacking performance of said others, that can affect date-targeted time off.

Manufacturing – Rigidly scheduled, then starts to miss the targets due to … anything. Those with more time in it could say more.

A group or company with a tendency to miss production target dates can be prone to last-minute cancels of time-off to push production.

Computer & technology - Depends on task and work group. Some are constantly on impossible deadlines. Some are tied to the physical infrastructure, the server banks, network traffic, etc.

Company infrastructure - servers, networks, etc. - if something goes down and there isn’t a ready fix, time-off can be truncated or canceled. Network jobs – beware of geographic regions where snowstorms or tropical storms are common.

And so on. This is the kind of information I wish were far more available to people as they are choosing their career field.

Re expectations for PTO: Do not expect to have coverage, someone who can do your job if you are away for a longer period. The jobs are complex, layered, nuanced. You need time in the job to do it correctly, not just a few hours of “and then I do this”. The best you can hope for is that someone at least has access to what you access. Workers don’t have time to do two jobs anyway, their job and someone else’s.

Management talks about cross-training for coverage. But there isn’t staff time for competency to be achieved (and maintained). I have never known coverage to actually get done, anywhere, beyond the routine ‘right now’ tasks. People can criticize and judge management for this all they wish. It changes nothing. You come back from PTO to a stack of undone work.

BTW – Managers are not default assholes, stupid or incompetent. They are human and are surviving the situation that they are in, just like everyone else. The better that employees understand the structure of the workplace and the humanity of the managers in their world, the better they can ‘manage upward’ and get more of what they want.

Jimmy Yang explains it below “In America, we’re supposed to do what we love!”, and his dad explains it differently … :smile:

https://youtube.com/shorts/bIPl8TDtJzE?si=HmWcvtl99VhRdFEP

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This! I’m usually pretty good about making sure I give myself at least a long weekend every month, if not longer for this exact reason. I also tend to like shorter (3-4 day) vacations rather than weeks long ones. But this year, I’m going on a vacation that’s going to use over half of my vacation days (Costa Rica, can’t wait!!) and I’ve noticed that the lack of additional rest so far this year has had a negative impact on me at work. The good thing is that I haven’t used any personal time yet this year, so yesterday, for instance, I took a mental health afternoon to go enjoy the beautiful weather before a dreary weekend.

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I totally understand! When I’m well rested I both enjoy and perform better at work.

I went to Costa Rica 20 yrs ago and I still think of it fondly. Enjoy!

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My career field is 100% one of these! Politics, not the corporate world, but it’s incredibly demanding and not one I would recommend for anyone looking for a good work / horse life balance. I’ve moved 4 times in two years, and I’m about to move again next month. I basically have to plan any vacation / competition plans year by year - if it’s an odd numbered year, I can compete and maybe take a vacation or two, but in even numbered years, those plans are completely off the table, and I’m basically on call 24/7 (I’m about 5 years into my career, senior staff, and expected to be available all the time)

To make it work, I’ve temporarily given up on competing more than two or three times a year, and I make riding work around my career as best as possible. I keep my headphones in my pocket, and I take calls from the saddle a lot - even in lessons if I have to (everyone knows this in advance!). For me, it’s worth investing in a nicer boarding facility so that I can maximize my actual time in the saddle - I’m riding instead of setting courses or doing general tasks as needed.

I also never could have done any of these things in my first few years if it wasn’t for the pandemic - in this field in particular, new hires are expected to be hungry and fully committed to the job. If you work hard at it, you can advance super fast, but you also can burn out even more quickly. I’ve more than doubled my salary in two years because so many people burn out after one or two years of work like this - there’s more jobs than there are people to fill them.

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I sold my horse when I graduated college. I didn’t have the funds to pay for the horse after college, as soon as I walked across the stage, I didn’t have any help from my parents on anything. I had to figure out life, pay my bills and get a job. A job that would pay for the horses someday. I took a corporate job position and started to work my way up.

Fast forward 8 months, had a great job that allowed me to grow and advanced my career. Found a barn near where I lived that needed someone to ride their horses, so I did that on the weekends and after work if I had the time. other than that, I focused on the job. I got a promotion a few months later, and then a horse I had sold previously came back in my life, and I was able to find an in expensive place to board him and worked off board by doing the extra riding ( it was the same place that I had been riding at for the last few months. ) I was able to work through lunch, to be able to leave an hour early a few nights a week to make it to the barn. But work remained my #1 priority for the first 2 years. 6 months after I got my horse back, I then had to send him away while my job took priority and I had to travel. It sucked and I missed it, but it was what I had to do to get to where I wanted to go, and the life I wanted to live.

Within a year of the first promotion, I got a second promotion, I changed cities, and was also finally able to buy a farm to have my horse at home eventually as we made the farm ready for horses. I had moved into a sales position so I had the flexibility to ride. meaning, during the winter, I started making calls by 8am and was done by 4 to ride in the evenings. in the summers, I rode at 5:30am to be able to get on the road by 8 to make calls at 9/10am. As I became more senior in my sales position, and my relationships with my clients grew, I was able to make sure my days were more flexible around my horse schedule. And it has allowed me to get a few more horses, and start back to where I had been before I graduated college. Now I have 2 UL horses and a young horse I’m bringing along. I travel to compete, still saving most PTO for horse activities. With my sales job I also have office days I could take or could make some days long call days, and have shorter call days on days that I need to run to a lesson or vet appointment or whatever.

The career always came first the first few years because it allowed me to have the horses in my life and do the things I want to do. You find a way to keep horses in your life, maybe not full time, maybe not everyday, but they can be in your life as you set yourself up for the future you want.

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Sometimes it is not that black and white-you take a little from work/ you take a little from home/personal life-it is a testing juggling act as to what and when one is prioritize over the other. You do this because you need the job and the one you have is better than many others you could have. Obviously if you are super talented and or in a market that is worker friendly (a lot of competition amongst employers) (or vice versa :)), it may change how much you push in either direction.