Worried 15.2 too small to be my 3ft hunter

[clburnham11]

Horse shopping! I found a 6 year old warmblood cross gelding who is just under 15.2 right now. I am searching for a 3ft hunter prospect. I am 5’2” and he ticks all the boxes but I’m just worried he might be too small for the 3ft? Mostly worried about getting the strides without pushing to the limit. This horse is green so he hasn’t done much jumping yet. What is your guys experience with smaller horses jumping that high?

Editing to add: I mostly show local. Hoping to dabble in the Saratoga rated shows once or twice a year if I can afford it!

Editing to add this video link! https://youtu.be/mOVr6Ys8XCE

[NancyM]

It’s not the size of the horse that matters. It’s the size of the heart in the horse, and the size of the stride. These things are very different from the size of the horse. My 15.2 hand horse had to shorten her stride to make the distances at 5’.

[goodhors]

What NancyM said. Does your prospect have a nice overstride walking and trotting? Usually a good sign they can extend or shorten (with training) stride length as needed between jumps.

Video horse moving at walk and trot if you can’t tell hoof landings just looking, then slow the video to observe each footfall. Hinds should plant hoof ahead of where front hoof landed at a minimum. Longer space between hind and front hoof footfalls means a bigger stride.

I would not hesitate to jump 3ft with a 15.2 horse.

[Midge]

I had a great 3’ horse who was 15.2. Won in the best company when his rider didn’t prevent that from happening. The one before that was 15.1. Hack winner. Had to be rated to do the steps.

[Paint_Party]

@clburnham11

This horse is green so he hasn’t done much jumping yet.

So he has some jumping experience, in that he understands the process? If it’s possible, and I realize this can be a hassle and you need to know what you’re doing, but you could set up a chute with a short grid and free jump him. The jumps needn’t be 3-feet high. But once he gets the idea of cantering through the chute, you’ll have a better idea of how he covers the ground when jumping, which may help you feel more confident about his potential.

As for a 15.2-hand horse doing the 3-foot classes: As others have said, it’s all about the horse’s length of stride and they way they carry themselves. My 3’6" medal class horse was barely 15.3 and he had an enormous stride and plenty of scope for the oxers. Plus his size made him very maneuverable on tight turns.

[findeight]

Not repeating whats already been said.

Where will you be showing?

Define “ just under” 15.2, what does he stick at? Ball park price compared to market in general?

Has he been doing 3’ courses over show style fences? Everybody says “ its got the step” so be careful. Prove it before you buy it.

Only ever showed one that was over 16h, mine just under 16h did have the step. BUT a nickle short against the best in stiff competition so in the pastels with even their very best trips where it comes down to very minor details and no rider mistakes.

[Bending_Line]

The large ponies, 13.2+ to 14.2, jump 3’ set off a 12’ stride. If they can do it, 15.2 can do it (assuming some stride length)

[findeight]

Can do it and what the judge sees and scores jumping style and cadence wise are two different things in top level of competition not restricted to similar size animals. Hunters are subjective judged on a curve against that class only, not a standard.

Again, all my Hunters but one were 15.2 to 15.3 and change. Most of my competition in the rated 3’ ran 16.3 to 17.3. Made the lines fine and pinned well, but not as stylish in the judges opinion so, like I said, pastels.

I compromised on ideal size because of price and I really don’t like real big ones.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

Everyone is chiming in with tales of horses they knew who were only 15.2 but could get the strides and got great ribbons. But I wonder if that presents a misleading picture to OP. Sure, there are 15.2 horses who can win in 3 ft. hunters, but my guess is that the vast majority of horses that size would have trouble making the strides and making it look like a smooth trip.

If you can’t see the horse jumping 3 feet, I think it’s risky to assume it will be competitive in 3 foot hunters.

[supershorty628]

@Horsegirl_s_Mom

Everyone is chiming in with tales of horses they knew who were only 15.2 but could get the strides and got great ribbons. But I wonder if that presents a misleading picture to OP. Sure, there are 15.2 horses who can win in 3 ft. hunters, but my guess is that the vast majority of horses that size would have trouble making the strides and making it look like a smooth trip.

If you can’t see the horse jumping 3 feet, I think it’s risky to assume it will be competitive in 3 foot hunters.

I disagree entirely. The step needed for the 3’ is … really not very much. As someone mentioned above, large ponies are expected to go on a ~12’ stride. The step for the 3’ hunters is not much beyond that.

She’s not asking about doing the regular working hunters or something similar. It’s the 3’. It’s not that big of an ask of a horse.

@OP, my mare was 15.3 and change and had an absolutely enormous stride. Constantly had to package her for the hunter steps, and she was successful up through the 1.50m grand prix classes.

[Foitin]

Agree here, It is also a question of the accuracy of the rider. I am petite and love me a small, galloping hunter, but it isn’t all roses. I have two 15.3 horses, one just barely that height. This last one was able to go well in the 3’6 small junior hunters with a near flawless, dead-eye junior rider, top kid. She dumps many people in the dirt at 3 ft. and they can’t make the step, but will jump for anybody at 2.6 and gets up the lines just fine on a good pace. At 3 ft, you had better be accurate and be able to nail those jumps at a gallop. You’ve got to be brave. My other small horse is more athletic with a bigger step and will jump literally from anywhere, but to make it look pretty and to make the step you have to motor and not pull. A lot of adult riders do not want to motor and most are not very accurate. Both of these things complicate having a small hunter.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

@supershorty628

I disagree entirely. The step needed for the 3’ is … really not very much. As someone mentioned above, large ponies are expected to go on a 12’ stride. The step for the 3’ hunters is not much beyond that

I see what you are saying, but then why are 95% of the 3 ft. hunters I see over 16 hands? Especially when we know many amateurs would rather be on a smaller horse, if all other things were equal.

[supershorty628]

@Horsegirl_s_Mom

@supershorty628

I disagree entirely. The step needed for the 3’ is … really not very much. As someone mentioned above, large ponies are expected to go on a 12’ stride. The step for the 3’ hunters is not much beyond that

I see what you are saying, but then why are 95% of the 3 ft. hunters I see over 16 hands? Especially when we know many amateurs would rather be on a smaller horse, if all other things were equal.

The answer to your question is right in this thread. People have the misconception that a bigger horse automatically equals a bigger step. It does not. Same thing with people wanting a bigger horse to jump bigger jumps. They feel “safer” or like they have more wiggle room for mistakes, even if that’s not based in reality.

[Renn_aissance]

My big eq horse was 15.2 1/2. He wasn’t a finals horse, but I wasn’t a finals rider, either. The step wasn’t a problem. Although he is more of a jumper type, he could fake it in the AA’s well enough.

If the horse shows signs of wanting to develop a big rangey uphill canter, you shouldn’t have a problem. You will probably have to pay a little more attention to establishing your rhythm than some of your comrades who ride moose, since stride and pace adjustments can be more noticeable with a smaller horse than a larger one. If the horse’s natural canter is 10’ long, it may be better suitable for a different division.

As for why so many people ride moose, some of us are tall, others of us have been taught that this is what wins, and people keep breeding them so they’re available.

[findeight]

Well, back to OPs question, the truth is our favorite answer “ It Depends”.

Depends on this individual horse, its PROVEN ability , the OPs ability to ride the horse and the course, where she plans on showing and price. Nothing is ever clear black and white or etched in stone when looking for a horse.

Complicated by some trainers ramming an unsuitable horse down clients throat or vetoing a perfectly suitable one based solely on trainers financial involvement in the transaction.

OP needs to consider all these things.

[Warmblood1]

I would look at the talent and temperament of the horse over a 15.2 height.
I think it comes down to whether or not the rider can adjust the horse. If at 3 foot the rider can not adjust a 15.2 horse’s stride, I would wonder if the rider should be jumping 3 foot at all.

[OnDeck]

Just under 15.2 is generally considered “too small” in the horse show world. Partly because of the stride but also because the market of appropriate buyers is limited to those under a certain height.

But really that just means when you find one with the stride necessary for what you want you get a steal of a deal. Is this a horse you can go try? If so, I wouldn’t hesitate to buy after a good trial ride.

[CBoylen]

The large ponies don’t.
They first of all aren’t set at 3’ anymore anywhere that I can find. It says 2’9” or 3’ in the rule book and I finally got annoyed and asked a real pony pro and big time judge, since I don’t do a lot of ponies, “so where do they actually jump 3’ now?”. The answer was nowhere or people have a cow.
Second, they aren’t on the 12’ step. That would be nice, because I wouldn’t have to pull out the damn pony chart before looking at the course chart. But no, they are at 11’3”, 11’6” if it’s a bigger ring. (The trick someone told me was to look at the medium distance because it will be the horse number, and then add one, and that works, but I still get paranoid and check the chart, because again, I don’t do a lot of ponies.)
Third, the way of going is different for a pony vs a horse. The ponies are expected to carry more pace. The horses are expected to jump out of a much slower rhythm.
Also, anywhere other than the smaller rateds, the 3’ horses lines are set longer than the 12’ step. That’s the minimum.
To answer the OP question, some do, some don’t. Not all 15.2 horses have the same step. You want to look at the rhythm of the horses canter and try to listen to it. If it sounds quick, it’s probably too short of step.

[Rel6]

There is also a difference between “walking the lines” and being able to get the step. I did the 3ft as a junior on a 15.1h TB who had a very average step, at local rated shows. He did not walk the lines. With a forward canter carrying appropriate pace (and I don’t mean running down the lines) we were always fine.

Will most horses just shy of 15.2h walk the lines in the 3ft? No. But many horses in general don’t. Most horses can, however, get down the 3ft lines fines on a nice normal canter pace. I echo @supershorty628 - this isn’t a big ask, especially at the local level where the jumps are probably going to be closer to 2’9’’.

My current horse is 16.2 with natural 13/14 ft step, but his first time schooling down a line before he wakes up and gets moving he does the add nicely. By the third time I’m praying we’re not leaving it out. It may be something you have to think about with pace and track (riding straight down the line), but unless this specific horse had an unusually short stride, that height would not concern me for a rider whose goals are the 3ft hunters locally.

Personally, I’d rather have a horse where I can jump into a line and nicely move up than land and have to pull the whole way down to fit it in. Too big of a stride has its own issues…pick your poison.

[SweetestDownfall]

Impossible to say without seeing the horse move. I used to lease a 15.2ish gelding who ate up the distances and height didn’t bother him. Athletic OTTB…gotta love ‘em.