Worried We Have a Tripping Problem - EPM Meds Arrived…questions

[FjordBCRF]

7y/o fjord gelding, have had him since we was 3. I would have never called him sure-footed, but we didn’t have any worrisome issues until the last year with this.

Tripping Events

Sept 2023 - Trotting on grass where footing was good in Scoot Boots, he ALMOST went down but caught himself.

Nov 2024 - Trotting down gravel drive, in Scoot Boots and fell to both knees. He didn’t launch me and I was fine, but he scraped his knees up, left worse than the right.

Dec 2023:

RPReplay_Final1722044481

June 2024:

IMG_3462

Worth nothing, he’s had laminitis flares twice (May 2021 and May of 2024), both showed no hoof rotation and rads were overall not concerning. Once he was through the acute phases both times hes been back to normal. We are coming back from this years flare up slowly, and he’s definitely tripping once or twice most rides. He’s in glue on shoes now and it’s still consistent.

Where do I start digging in here? I wanted to get the hives thoughts before getting on the vets schedule. He knows about the trips but didn’t offer much insight about anything medically. It looks like he is buckling at the front left fetlock both times, but I’m no expert at this kind of thing.

[Obsidian_Fire]

I’d start with nerve blocks low, see if it resolves. Would give you a possible starting point. I’d be looking at the hoof, and the pastern joint to start with.

And, he is absolutely the cutest!

[TWH_Girl]

Tripping can be a sign of what is considered a low grade chronic laminitis. He may have a component of that given his past two flares. I don’t recall- has he been tested for PPID? I believe he was on or is on thyro l. He’s buckling at the fetlock but I don’t think this is necessarily a new issue.

[QuestionMark]

If looking at his feet doesn’t get you anywhere (seems like it might given the laminitis events), next you might ask for a neuro exam and then maybe an investigation of his neck.

[StormyDay]

Coming off the block (first video) that looks more like a pain response than tripping to me. Like when my dog jumps off the couch too fast and has to take some weird steps.
Second video kind of looks the same.

He’s a bit chonky. Have you talked to the vet about putting him on a thyroid medication? I did that for my chonky boy and it helped him SO much. He lost a ton of weight and has kept it off even though he’s no longer on the meds. I would wonder if his extra weight is making his knees hurt.

[FjordBCRF]

@TWH_Girl

Tripping can be a sign of what is considered a low grade chronic laminitis. He may have a component of that given his past two flares. I don’t recall- has he been tested for PPID? I believe he was on or is on thyro l. He’s buckling at the fetlock but I don’t think this is necessarily a new issue.

This is where my head has been at, I also don’t think it’s a new issue. He’s not had PPID specific testing, just the Cornell Metabolic panel. Fall is a good time to test if memory serves? For chronic laminitis, I imagine keeping excess weight off hasto be a big help, what all else do I need to be thinking about if that’s where we’re at?

@QuestionMark

If looking at his feet doesn’t get you anywhere (seems like it might given the laminitis events)

I do trim myself, but do have a trimmer that checks from time to time. She’s the one that did our glue ons and I’ve been leaning on her through this second flare up. Both her and our vet (whom she knows and likes the most for these issues) saw nothing looking at his feet or on rads that raised any eyebrows, he exact words when she came out after the onset were, “it’s certainly not his feet”. Not to say it’s not hoof related, but nothing obvious at this point if it is.

@StormyDay

He’s a bit chonky. Have you talked to the vet about putting him on a thyroid medication?

He started on thyro-l in May with the second laminitis event, but we are weaning off this upcoming week. The vet says he’s weight appropriate for his breed, but I have gotten about 100 lbs off him this year and would like to get home down more which how sensitive he seems to be.

He looks a little slimmer to me now vs Dec for sure and is taping lower. This was two nights ago:

[Scribbler]

That’s a kind of flinch/buckle not a trip per se. A trip is more catching the toe and stumbling.

Does he need his boots on this very soft arena footing? If he’s not sound in the arena barefoot then that’s an issue.

I ask because my generally sound and sure footed mare sometimes takes an off step at a walk in her Scoot Boots but not barefoot. Almost like the boot has slid on her foot. She doesn’t do this warmed up or trot/canter

Those damp sand rings like in the second video can be trippy to all horses when they are very churned up and not harrowed.

I agree that a big weight loss diet to get in front of any lurking laminitis is a good idea. Is it always the same foot? You might want to x-ray that. Oh ok you did already

Both videos show this happening when horse has really loaded his front end, coming off the box and then slowing to a trot. He’s got such a huge neck and shoulders, he’s going to be on the forehand naturally as mini draft horse.

[FjordBCRF]

@Scribbler

Does he need his boots on this very soft arena footing? If he’s not sound in the arena barefoot then that’s an issue.

Historically no. I’ve only booted when we go out on gravel/trails. That video of him tripping in the indoor was with his glue ons on too, so he wasn’t barefoot then EDIT - he got his glue on shortly AFTER that videoed but has tripped similarly in the glue ons.

He trips more out on the driveway than either the indoor or outdoor, but trips still happen occasionally. To your comment on being so front heavy, I have NOT noticed the tripping when he’s pulling the cart on the driveway. I don’t plan on driving until we get more to the bottom of this, but he loves the cart and he’s definitely more “up” when we drive which I have wondered if that helps tripping. He’s more inclined to trip when he’s moseying. I don’t mind the mosey speed, but i have wondered about needing keep him up more to avoid tripping. I feel like there’s more to it than that, but some observations.

[SBrentnall]

If you exhaust all other options, I’d look into ECVM.

[NaturallyHappy]

@FjordBCRF

To your comment on being so front heavy, I have NOT noticed the tripping when he’s pulling the cart on the driveway. I don’t plan on driving until we get more to the bottom of this, but he loves the cart and he’s definitely more “up” when we drive which I have wondered if that helps tripping

Perhaps a more active hind leg would help under saddle. The fact that he is more “up” in the cart leads me to think this.

[Scribbler]

@FjordBCRF

@Scribbler

Does he need his boots on this very soft arena footing? If he’s not sound in the arena barefoot then that’s an issue.

Historically no. I’ve only booted when we go out on gravel/trails. That video of him tripping in the indoor was with his glue ons on too, so he wasn’t barefoot then EDIT - he got his glue on shortly AFTER that videoed but has tripped similarly in the glue ons.

He trips more out on the driveway than either the indoor or outdoor, but trips still happen occasionally. To your comment on being so front heavy, I have NOT noticed the tripping when he’s pulling the cart on the driveway. I don’t plan on driving until we get more to the bottom of this, but he loves the cart and he’s definitely more “up” when we drive which I have wondered if that helps tripping. He’s more inclined to trip when he’s moseying. I don’t mind the mosey speed, but i have wondered about needing keep him up more to avoid tripping. I feel like there’s more to it than that, but some observations.

I’ve noticed more trip or flinch moments on horses that are moseying, that disappear when they are warmed up. My friend’s Arab drags his hind toes when he first comes out and then that disappears. But you don’t have a catch a toe and trip thing happening. You have a flinch and buckle thing happening. If it was hind end we might think stifle locking but that’s not a front end possibility.

Could it be knee or shoulder? I had the interesting experience of observing my mare in the couple of days after her last combined vaxx, which bothered her shoulder when we went down a very slight incline. It just looked very different from hoof pain, which I’ve seen a lot of via hoof abscess and post abscess recovery.

Looking at your videos it seems like left front both times. On the free longe trot video, he stiffens his right front like he’s trying to save himself from landing on his left and then collapses on his right.

It seems to me it must be transient pain as he isn’t consistently off but just flinches/collapses every once in a while. And it seems from the second video that he feels the twinge before the left foot lands, which is why he braces with the right leg to try to mitigate that.

So it makes sense it’s further up the leg and that it’s very intermittent and it might well stop happening when he’s warmed up or moving correctly. Maybe he needs to lift in front to pull into the harness and that helps him

[FjordBCRF]

@Scribbler

Looking at your videos it seems like left front both times.

I agree on front left. When he went down to his knees with me on him last November, I believe it was the left side there too as that knee took the brunt of the fall. If it is a knee problem I don’t imagine that fall helped any.

I have a body worker out monthly for him, and she does seem to find more tight spots in the neck/shoulder area more consistently. And I believe more on the left side. He had SOME thing going on in either neck/shoulder in February of this year that a couple weeks of rest and BEMER seemed to work out. Think carrot stretches; he’s quite good at those despite the short sticky neck and could maybe only get about 45 degrees around when he was off then. I didn’t have MY vet out for that but the consensus with the retired vet at the barn was something probably soft tissue related.

With blocks which I have never had to do before, it’s my understanding those help with isolating pain? If that’s right, with the tripping being so intermittent, would that tell much of a story?

[FjordBCRF]

@Scribbler

So it makes sense it’s further up the leg and that it’s very intermittent and it might well stop happening when he’s warmed up or moving correctly.

Before this years laminitis, I started BEMERing him BEFORE training rides, and that was a marked difference. Just more…ready to go if I had to describe it.

[Jackie_amp_Starlette]

I can’t see the videos but have been following. The one thought I had was that the lameness vet here says to not even start working them until 4 to 6 weeks later - it takes that long or longer to heal. I know my mini (obviously not ridden) is tender for that long after an event.

Another thought is that he is still having mild events that make him tender yet.

[FjordBCRF]

@Jackie_amp_Starlette

The one thought I had was that the lameness vet here says to not even start working them until 4 to 6 weeks later - it takes that long or longer to heal.

We got the go ahead to get back to work after his X-rays which was 5 or 6 weeks after the flare up. I have been taking things very slowly though and while he seems “back to normal”, the tripping has been intermittent now for quite some time. I want to see that through though before we do much more this time around. I’m waiting to drive him until we have some better insight because I’m scared if he went down with the cart, that could be much more catastrophic.

[cayuse]

FWIW, my lami pony, who did have some rotation, has always tripped exactly like that since he foundered. So I would probably start there.

[FjordBCRF]

We haven’t had any rotation to date, this time or last thankfully, however I’m inclined to think there is a connection between the laminitis and tripping.

[NaturallyHappy]

I wonder if there are studies on how propreception in the foot is affected by laminitis. The two I am familiar w have never tripped after a flare. Or during, either.

[TWH_Girl]

I definitely think it’s worth blocking his feet and go up from there if needed.

As far as possible chronic/low grade laminitis I’m not an expert as I’ve fortunately not had to deal with it. His diet sounds reasonable but something for hind gut acidity may help (if vet feels it’s indeed some residual laminitis). He could have had it a while and depending on the footing he’s in, the tripping may come and go.
Agree with the comment regarding him coming down and front end loading which may contribute as well.
You have a confirmed laminitis issue so it’s easiest to rule further issues with the foot in or out, before assuming it’s any other body part at this point. So many issues can cause tripping. I wouldn’t go down the rabbit hole yet. And hopefully you won’t have to.

[Jackie_amp_Starlette]

Have you seen this thread? Post 140 on is a veterinarian with very good insight.

Update p122: good news/bad news. Is this founder? Xrays included - Horse Care - Chronicle Forums (chronofhorse.com)