Worsen cribbing after my other horse was put down... anyone have anything like this?

[eventer711]

I unfortunately had to put down my awesome 5 year old mare due to a broken leg in a freak pasture accident about 2 and a half weeks ago. She was close to my 6 year old upper level eventer OTTB but they weren’t out together. They could be separated just fine (such as when one was lessoning the other would stand quietly in the trailer even if they couldn’t see each other etc), but they normally shared a field with an electric fence in the middle. I would joke that they were best friends.

My 6 year old had been losing weight before. I moved barns about a month before I had to put my other one down and I think he just didn’t adjust great. On the other hand, he is running Preliminary competitively and was doing 2 to 3 six minute gallops. He was getting ready for his first CCI* but I decided that we should wait so we are backing off the galloping. After my mare died, his cribbing was like night and day. Going from occasionally cribbing during and around meals to taking breaks from cribbing to eat. I changed his collar to a miracle collar and am in the process of getting a full treatment of omeprazole shipped. For everything that he is doing, I can’t have him losing weight. On the other hand, he is jumping better than ever but in dressage he is getting more fussy. He has 24/7 access to a full grass field, stall and is around another horse. In his stall there is always a full hay bag of grass hay and he has a treat ball that releases alfalfa pellets. Anyways, my point of saying all that is that I am doing everything to “treat” the cribbing that I can but I am more worried that he is depressed about my mare.

So my question is: has anyone ever had this happen before? He doesn’t seem depressed, but he is a mama’s boy and pretty relaxed normally. I just feel so bad for him and want him to feel better! Thanks!

[findeight]

You’ve had some stress and changes in the last 6 weeks and cribbing can be associated with increased stress. He may even miss the mare, or not and is picking stress up from changes in you while still adjusting to his new digs.

And you say he was losing weight before all this started? I hate the cliche cure all of ulcers but I think you need to consider it. Or possibly something else?

Can you just lay off for a few months? He probably needs to back down for awhile. Has he ever had a long break since you have had him? We used to give them winter off, now we do all we can to go 12 months a year. Getting to think this is not doing the horse any good, only satisfying our needs, keeping trainers in business and letting boarding barns collect high full care stall fees year round instead of far cheaper partial care turn out 3 months out of the year.

He may benefit from some time in a field in a group just being a horse acting like horses act. Might help his weight situation too as he de stresses himself. Think of it like a retreat experience where humans try to “find themselves” by simplifying their surroundings and lifestyle.

[cutter99]

Stress will increase cribbing, but stress from all the life changes plus cribbing would make this horse the perfect candidate for ulcers. Have your vet out to scope!

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=cutter99;7789824]
Stress will increase cribbing, but stress from all the life changes plus cribbing would make this horse the perfect candidate for ulcers. Have your vet out to scope![/QUOTE]

This.

[gumshoe]

Yes, when his buddy moved. Same situation, buddy was in the paddock next to his. They were never turned out together but were friends. He eventually got over it. It was quite some time ago now but I’m thinking he stressed (and cribbed like a mofo) for under 2 weeks. This was before we understood how common ulcers are. He didn’t have any of the common symptoms (ill thrift, off feed, etc) so I was poo-pooed when I brought it up.

But he was fine in no time none the less.

[eventer711]

Thanks for all the responses. He is planning on having the winter off or at least a month off and a month of walk/trot. Although he is pretty used to the high stress of moving around because I take him to lessons and shows so frequently and I didn’t have any of this before my mare died. Like I said, I am having the omeprazole shipped and should be here in about a week or so. Unfortunately, I don’t feel comfortable turning him out with anyone else especially after my mare died! Just too valuable to me to see him get kicked or beat up (He is def submissive). I am hoping this is just a short time thing! I just got him that ball and it is seeming to help and I am going to just treat him for ulcers because if he didn’t have them, I would be surprised. Thanks for your insight!

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=gumshoe;7789911]
Yes, when his buddy moved. Same situation, buddy was in the paddock next to his. They were never turned out together but were friends. He eventually got over it. It was quite some time ago now but I’m thinking he stressed (and cribbed like a mofo) for under 2 weeks. This was before we understood how common ulcers are. He didn’t have any of the common symptoms (ill thrift, off feed, etc) so I was poo-pooed when I brought it up.

But he was fine in no time none the less.[/QUOTE]

Yep. My mare didn’t have any of the classic symptoms either (to the vet anyway… I saw them and he poo poo’d them as well). Www.photobucket.com/ulcers

Glad I listened to my gut! No pun intended!

[CrowneDragon]

[QUOTE=SuckerForHorses;7790314]
Yep. My mare didn’t have any of the classic symptoms either (to the vet anyway… I saw them and he poo poo’d them as well). Www.photobucket.com/ulcers

Glad I listened to my gut! No pun intended![/QUOTE]
Are those bots I spy?

[alto]

[QUOTE=eventer711;7789974]
Thanks for all the responses. He is planning on having the winter off or at least a month off and a month of walk/trot. Although he is pretty used to the high stress of moving around because I take him to lessons and shows so frequently and I didn’t have any of this before my mare died. Like I said, I am having the omeprazole shipped and should be here in about a week or so. Unfortunately, I don’t feel comfortable turning him out with anyone else especially after my mare died! Just too valuable to me to see him get kicked or beat up (He is def submissive). I am hoping this is just a short time thing! I just got him that ball and it is seeming to help and I am going to just treat him for ulcers because if he didn’t have them, I would be surprised. Thanks for your insight![/QUOTE]

where do you live that no one has omeprazole paste that you can start him on right now! please either scope to ensure that he’s only grade 1 or 2 & not bleeding , or just get some omeprazole from local vets … failing that, Ranitidine (you can use the human version if equine is not readily available)

You might consult with a holistic veterinarian - this website may be worth your reading time. It offers some information on the various types of ulcers & treatments you might try.

About Ranitidine (in case you’ve not read up on the protocols)

If you’re going to do ranitidine, it must be dosed at least twice daily, with every 4 hours even better

eg,

Correct dosage for treatment is 6.6 mg per kg, dosed 3 times daily, with free choice hay

If you are using Rantidine and have a 500kg horse and using 150mg tablets you need to give 24 3 times a day to get an effective dose.

After a weekend clinic with Dr Kerry Ridgeway and a chat with the vet we gave ranitidine a try, we gave 10x 300 mg tablets twice a day for 2 weeks then 10 tablets a day for 6 weeks, I’m pleased to say the symptoms are all gone

The science behind ranitidine

Omeprazole has become the drug of choice as it is more effective for more horses than previous drugs.

Another possible product - GastroPlus TM though I’d want to see the clinical trial results.

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=CrowneDragon;7790359]
Are those bots I spy?[/QUOTE]

Yes they are.

[eventer711]

[QUOTE=alto;7790565]
where do you live that no one has omeprazole paste that you can start him on right now! please either scope to ensure that he’s only grade 1 or 2 & not bleeding , or just get some omeprazole from local vets … failing that, Ranitidine (you can use the human version if equine is not readily available)

You might consult with a holistic veterinarian - this website may be worth your reading time. It offers some information on the various types of ulcers & treatments you might try.

About Ranitidine (in case you’ve not read up on the protocols)

If you’re going to do ranitidine, it must be dosed at least twice daily, with every 4 hours even better

eg,

The science behind ranitidine

Omeprazole has become the drug of choice as it is more effective for more horses than previous drugs.

Another possible product - GastroPlus TM though I’d want to see the clinical trial results.[/QUOTE]

I am having a type of Omeprazole shipped that is coated to protect it from the acid in the stomach so it can make it to the intestines unharmed and do it’s job. I don’t feel comfortable doing 2 different types of treatments so close together. I have used GastroGard in the past and it has worked, but I don’t think it is reasonable to spend 40 dollars a day only to switch him off of it in a week. Considering he isn’t showing any classic symptoms and his cribbing has decreased since I put the miracle collar on him, I think he can wait for the shipment.

BUTTTT he seems much much happier since he had his collar put on and is eating substantially more (which is now like twice the amount of a normal horse instead of 1.5 times). I seriously think he was depressed and I needed to wait it out a bit until he felt a bit more comfortable.

Don’t worry though… he will still be treated. I am more of a fan of being on the safe side than sorry side hence the reason he is on many of the top supplements ie Platinum Performance, E3Live, SmartPak’s SmartGut Pellets and UlcerGard when he goes to shows. I am just happy that he seems more happy!

[alto]

@eventer711;7791029

I am having a type of Omeprazole shipped that is coated to protect it from the acid in the stomach so it can make it to the intestines unharmed and do it’s job. I don’t feel comfortable doing 2 different types of treatments so close together. I have used GastroGard in the past and it has worked, but I don’t think it is reasonable to spend 40 dollars a day only to switch him off of it in a week.

If you’re talking about the Abler product, the manufacturer has done zero studies to support their claims …

I googled earlier today & quickly found Merial Gastroguard at ~$25/tube - there are studies done in the recent years indicating successful healing of ulcers using 1/4 tube/day (based upon 1000 lb horse) … so less than $200 for a month’s treatment with an FDA approved, quality controlled product.

If you look at the science, omeprazole used in combination with ranitidine (&/or sucralfate) is also well documented.

[SuckerForHorses]

I googled earlier today & quickly found Merial Gastroguard at ~$25/tube

Would be nice to know where you found this price

[alto]

[QUOTE=SuckerForHorses;7791814]
Would be nice to know where you found this price ;)[/QUOTE]

Sorry I wasn’t really paying attention … lowest online was ~$30 and then go to Merial for the 5$/tube coupon rebate (always check drug manufacturer sites for coupons :yes: - if you happen upon a rep, ask for coupons :lol: )

I know there is 1 online retailer that gets mentioned more frequently here for best pricing on GastroGard but I can never remember the name.

Talk to your vet about Summit branded “generic” omeprazole paste. my vet uses that much more frequently than the GG re costs, rarely she’ll have a client horse that seems to ONLY do well with GG, so there are still some differences in the product.
(she was involved with EGUS studies using Summit omeprazole while at vet school, no idea why the results have never been published). There are other alternate suppliers of omeprazole paste, but she no longer uses their product re lack of consistency/quality between batches.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Where do you get the summit brand? I couldn’t find it with a google search.

[Helicon]

I had stomach ulcers myself and mixing brands is fine. I also mixed ranitidine and omeprazole as they have different actions. Ranitidine seems to work faster.

With my horses I definitely got results with Abler’s products. Your vet can also get ulcer meds compounded for you.