So, my 7 yo clyde cross has her 1st level scores for the bronze qualifying. 68 and 66% (many others, but those are what we qualified with). Suppleness is an issue. Has been an issue from day 1 and probably will always be an issue. Schooling 2nd level has been a challenge, although the collection has not been. Lateral work has been a huge roadblock-stemming from lack of suppleness. My lesson yesterday left me thinking I was putting a sqaure peg in a round hole. Not fair to me or the horse. Time to move on…This morning I pulled up some pics and videos to remind myself of some of the other ‘walls’ we have hit in our training, that we have sucsessfully climbed. I need some encouragement. My goal with this horse is to get my bronze, then let my mom have her to learn on while I move up. She is the PERFECT horse for me tempermant wise, safe around my kids and easy on the ground, funny as hell, predictable. Also awesome on the occasional trail ride. She is starting to show some signs of wear behind. The collection might be too much and she’ll make this decision for me??? Do I just do what she can and limit my goals until my mom can take her (a couple years) or do I push for my goals and deal with the consequenses?
Have you tested her for PSSM? This is often a predisposing cause tot he issues youa re describing, particularly in draft crosses.
She has been tested for epsm and shows borderline symptoms. Oil has helped her tremendously. She has a body to die for-very correct conformation, looks like a well bred warmblood. Big head, but pretty and not too big for her body, but ALOT of neck. Wish we invented plastic rx for horses!! She actually has plenty of forward and gets 8’s and even some 9’s for gaits/movement. Anything out of the norm-lengthenings, lateral work, etc. cause her to brace and come up and its preventing us from moving up. Trainer says these are no different from the issues I would be having with any other horse and believes she can do it, but I’m wondering if it’s just to hard for her to be fair? Trainer believes it’s just a matter of me not being consistent enough and accepting sub par work from her.
Agreed
EPSM (PSSM) is a risk for many horses and common in heavy draft horses. Having been through it I would suspect it in a few instances. If a horse has trouble with the farrier with holding up back feet. I also knew I had a problem when I was putting in good dressage work but the muscle was not developing behind. Also rest made it worse. There are many adjustment you can make to live with the condition and make your horse more comfortable. There ARE upper level horses with EPSM so it is manageable. PatO
she is great for the farrier and actually better after a break. She gets time off every year between Thanksgiving and New Years and comes back strong.
What exactly do you mean when you say that suppleness is an issue? Is she heavy in your hand, does not yield to the leg?
Every horse has its gifts and weaknesses. I had a TB once who had the most incredible canter… he had an FEI horses canter when he could barely trot a 20m circle. It was amazing. After much work teaching him to always go forward, I asked him to go sideways and it blew his mind. He nearly had a meltdown. It took weeks to get over it and take one quiet step sideways. It was not his gift; his canter was his gift.
Our small junior hunter - the first time I asked him to leg yield he just did it. No fuss, no muss, no question in his mind that he could do that. He is a lucky horse in that he has two gifts, his jump and he is laterally gifted. He could be a dressage horse but is worth more $$ as a hunter. His weakness is he is not naturally forward. You would never know it now but I know it.
Your horse has her own set of gifts and weaknesses. As long as the conformation is there to do the work I would trust your trainer that it is normal. You could back that up by having your vet out to flex her and see if she is sore anywhere, but I do think most horses will find something to be hard or confusing and it is normal and ok. Not a big John Lyons fan but he is quoted to have said “if you have not encountered resistance you have not trained” and I agree w/that. It doesn’t mean necessarily going to war, but that this is all our idea and horses are going to find some of it more difficult than others.
Ability to flex in either direction no matter the direction of travel. She can flex inside with ease. She cannot flex outside, either direction without bracing and coming up a bit. Not a lot. She is supple enough to get through first level tests/movements. but cannot leg yeield with flexion either way, cannot circle with flexion either way, cannot SI, or HI and stay soft. I’m not asking for huge amounts, just ‘this is still a leg yield, it’s still easy, just flex here, then here’. Not gonna happen. She is pretty dull off my right leg, and new issues are appearing from my outside left rein. When I write this i’m thinking this is no big deal-it seems like pretty basic stuff. Go back and fix it, it just felt huge during my lesson.
Can you halt and put the horse’s neck where you want it to be? Can you walk and put the horse’s neck where you want? Can you do a turn on the forehand? Can you leg yield in walk? Can you do a western-style “side-pass” in walk?
How often do you lunge your horse in side reins? (Sounds like your horse should be lunged in side reins everyday for a few minutes before you hop on).
These are simple things that you can work on. ANY HORSE no matter how lame, mal-formed, or poorly built can do these things! I know, I’ve trained the worst of the worst! From these basic things you can build on. I am a believer that most sound horses can do 3rd level. You have to start at the very basic pieces and gradually improve on them. Praise your horse often when he yields to the leg or the hand, give lots of sugar cubes, and have a positive attitude and it will happen!
I’m confused. She’s getting 8s and 9s on movements, has good conformation and your trainer thinks she can do it. What’s the problem??
Thanks Shiway-I needed that! Every lesson and every task has been easy I guess. I deal with people giving us the stink eye because of her breeding and I get my back up expecting the worst and it’s never been an issue until now. You make it sound so simple! I have alot of people watching what we can do, because in this small town, draft crosses can’t do it, so when I feel some failure I take it really big. I just got off the phone with my friend-who LOVES my horse-and everything I was complaining about seemed pretty small to her. You’re right. The trainer thinks she can do it and up until now I thought she could do it and I’m taking 1 tough lesson the wrong way.
We all have those rides where we’re thinking what the heck am I doing?! It used to get me down a lot. I have a negative personality so it’s easy for me to see the negative. What helped me was to hook up with a trainer who really believed in me and let me know it. Not saying other trainers hadn’t believed in my in the past, but the trainer I have no was very vocal about it and that’s what I needed at the time since I’ve never believed in myself.
Something that’s also helped me was putting my horse in training (not sending away but while I’m there) for as many months as I could afford and also take lessons. This has really sped up my progress and helped me learn a lot.
It sounds to me like you’re just hitting the typical issues trying to move up from 1st to 2nd. It’s a big jump and any holes in the basics will become huge gaping sinkholes at this time.
The key to what you are describing is that no matter what you are doing, you must have impulsion (without running) AND straightness, all at the same time. No compromises. No slowing down to do your shoulder-in or haunches-in, no throwing shoulders around on a circle, no backing off (or running away) to flex outside on a 20m circle. Changes of direction, spiralling in, counter-canter are your friends.
Keep plugging away. If your horse needs addt’l maintenance (joints / bodywork / nutrition), then give it, but keep plugging away and you’ll get somewhere.
The key to what you are describing is that no matter what you are doing, you must have impulsion (without running) AND straightness, all at the same time. No compromises.
:yes:
Just wanted to let you know I have read that many horses with EPSM symptoms actually have a magnesium deficeincy. I would either do a mineral test and see if she’s deficient, or just start her on a magnesium-rich supplement like Ex-Stress or Quiessence and see if that helps. Good luck!
These actually seem like major holes in training. Yes they are the basics, but the basics are the building block of everything. Meaning that if you have a horse that is supple, forward, relaxed and rhythmic, then doing the movements should not be “hard.” I am concerned that you are saying you cannot flex at all in leg-yields, and I wonder how you got 68% at first level that way! If you can’t counter-bend on a circle that’s a major issue.
It sounds like you need to go back and fill in some holes in the training before you worry about second level. If you have been working with your trainer for a long time, maybe try someone new to get a different perspective or have your trainer ride her and see if she is reacting the same way.
Without a video it is hard to diagnose, but it seems like your mare is going along pleasantly, which is why she can score well at the lower levels, but she has not truly learned the basics which is why now there is a huge hurdle. First to Second is a big leap for most, but a huge chasm if you don’t have the building blocks there.
You might have to prepare yourself for some tough rides ahead, as a horse that has been allowed to go around without flexion and ignoring leg aids is going to fuss - potentially a lot - when the rules of the game change. That doesn’t mean that she can’t do it or that you have to give up on her as a dressage horse, it just means you have to be prepared to ride through the fuss as you change the rules about how she is expected to go. I just had to do this with my horse on Saturday as he has not been truly giving to right flexion and we had a discussion doing s/i right until he realized it was easier to flex than to fight.
Good luck!
[QUOTE=thatsnotme;4686419]
Trainer says these are no different from the issues I would be having with any other horse and believes she can do it, but I’m wondering if it’s just to hard for her to be fair? Trainer believes it’s just a matter of me not being consistent enough and accepting sub par work from her.[/QUOTE]
My advice is PUSH THROUGH if what you say is true and you trust your trainer. I have a phenomenal horse that pitched a hissy fit about every new movement he had to learn from halt salute to flying change. Nothing wrong with his physical ability or talent. And by hissy fit, I mean trying to rub me off on the fence, leaping, rearing, spinning. Great trainer. About 3 weeks to work thru ANYTHING new. If I could just find the time, I would go do those 3rd level tests and get my bronze. Sometimes they beat the holy hell out of you and themselves, doesn’t always mean they are in pain or physically incapable. I call my boy the B+ student. He is a genius, but he would rather get by on his good looks and natural ability. the hard work part, not so much. Yours may be a different personality type, but that doesn’t mean she isn’t giving you the “eating grass would be so much easier song and dance”. Good luck.
This is exactly what I was thinking.
That you say collection has “not been a problem”, but these basic skills are, is a BIG red flag to me. I’m willing to bet money that there is no real collection there, w/o the correct basics in place. Sorry to be so blunt, but it sounds like you need a new trainer.
This new stuff is coming up because I found a wonderful new trainer. This was our 3rd lesson together so he omitted all the ‘fluff’ of the first 2 ‘getting to know us’ lessons and dug in. The issues aren’t really as bad as I make them sound, after sitting on this for a few days. Basically it’s a not so great connection to the left rein. Going to the left, on the right rein, flexion is lovely and soft, consistent, reaching lightly down whenever allowed. Counter-flexion, etc. It’s going to the right where it all turns to $^%#@ in a hurry. Actually it’s only really $&^%#@ at the trot, canter is OK-obviously needs work, but not so bad. She just gives me the finger in trot and says, no, no, no…we’ve been doing it like this and everythings been fine. Who said YOU could do a re-write?? We quit our old trainer over a year ago and just found someone we like. So it’s a combo of mom accepting sub par work with no instruction for 14 months and a hole in the program. Thanks for the insight and uplifting comments. I really needed them in that moment.
