Woul you consider euthanasia?

[Cat_Tap]

I come here for discussion as I am afraid to discuss this IRL.

Some background, 15 month old Bouvier, owned by me since he was 5 months old. We have attended several sessions of training classes where he was perfect. He is a gentleman in public, walking through stores and parking lots, perfect recall on off leash walking in the back forty, he has learned to jump hurdles in my arena and has been a great companion for a single old lady. It only took a few session for in home training to learn not to jump on visitors.

Here is the problem, he has attacked me viciously on three occasions. The in home trainer has taught me how to watch for triggers and then divert after the first two. This has worked well until today. I was putting the leash on him to take him for his morning potty in his dog run when he growld, jumped on me and sent me flying. This time he didn’t connect with his teeth as he did the last time bur gouged my arm with one of his nails.

I am now very afraid of him. He is locked in the mudroom where he will stay until the trainer gets here later as I cannot risk getting seriously hurt.

I had checked with his breeder and there is no record of viciousness in his siblings or parents. Both breeder and trainer suggested some brain abnormality as he has otherwise been such a good student.

He had several good vet visits in the past except in the last one. I don’t know what happened as the vet took him to the back room for shots and blood samples and they returned him with a broken leash and stated that unless tranquilized they would not see him again.

Now is it worth the effort and heartbreak to go through diagnostics to see if there was an abnormality in his brain for which nothing could probably be done or do I euthanize now though he will be the last dog I will own. There have been many wonderful dogs in my life, 6 of which were Bouviers.

I am heartbroken. Trainer is on the way to help me with immediate situation.

[Zu_Zu]

Yes ~ I’m sorry for this heartbreaking situation but you must keep yourself (and others) safe ~

[GraceLikeRain]

My personal stance:
A responsible breeder should take him back no questions asked. If not, I’d ask if the trainer is interested in taking him on as a surrendered training dog. If not, I’d contact a breed specific rescue with full transparency. If that was exhausted, humane euthanasia is not an unkind end for any dog.

With the information provided I don’t think anyone online can determine if it’s genuine aggression, reactivity, fear, and the likelihood of rehab. They are big dogs and any aggression should be taken seriously. Best of luck with next steps.

[Cat_Tap]

@GraceLikeRain

My personal stance:
A responsible breeder should take him back no questions asked. If not, I’d ask if the trainer is interested in taking him on as a surrendered training dog. If not, I’d contact a breed specific rescue with full transparency. If that was exhausted, humane euthanasia is not an unkind end for any dog.

With the information provided I don’t think anyone online can determine if it’s genuine aggression, reactivity, fear, and the likelihood of rehab. They are big dogs and any aggression should be taken seriously. Best of luck with next steps.

@GraceLikeRain

My personal stance:
A responsible breeder should take him back no questions asked. If not, I’d ask if the trainer is interested in taking him on as a surrendered training dog. If not, I’d contact a breed specific rescue with full transparency. If that was exhausted, humane euthanasia is not an unkind end for any dog.

With the information provided I don’t think anyone online can determine if it’s genuine aggression, reactivity, fear, and the likelihood of rehab. They are big dogs and any aggression should be taken seriously. Best of luck with next steps.

@GraceLikeRain

My personal stance:
A responsible breeder should take him back no questions asked. If not, I’d ask if the trainer is interested in taking him on as a surrendered training dog. If not, I’d contact a breed specific rescue with full transparency. If that was exhausted, humane euthanasia is not an unkind end for any dog.

With the information provided I don’t think anyone online can determine if it’s genuine aggression, reactivity, fear, and the likelihood of rehab. They are big dogs and any aggression should be taken seriously. Best of luck with next steps.

That would not solve anything just make him someonelse’s problem.

[jherold]

Yes, I would definitely consider euthanasia. No matter what you do, you will never be comfortable living with this dog. Could you rehome in good conscience? I couldn’t. If the breeder wanted to take him back, that would be an option. But that doesn’t sound like the case.

I euthanized a horse for dangerous behavioral problems. We assume she had a malignant pituitary tumor because her behavior improved on pergolide, but when I had to increase the dose ever couple months and they quit making the flavor she liked, we called it quits. I had promised myself that I would work with her until I started becoming afraid of her.

My brother euthanized a cat who started attacking out of the blue. Did all the usual health checks and nothing was apparently physically wrong. I asked him if he would ever be able to relax around the cat. The answer was no. We euthanized the cat the same day.

You have no obligation to share your life with anyone or anything who scares you. I know it’s difficult, but you will be relieved when he’s gone. It’s a difficult decision, but I think it’s the right one. Hugs

[Zu_Zu]

Perhaps the trainer could safely transport him to the vet (call ahead) for euthanasia ? Please ask ….not one more dangerous incident !

Sending ((hugs)) of support ~ you’ve done your best !

I’m so sorry ~ you will get through this ~ tomorrow will feel better and safer ~

[Ziggy793]

Yes, without a doubt I would be very seriously considering euthanasia.

From the human perspective, life is too short to be uncomfortable or scared in your own home with your own dog. From the dog perspective, I think any dog with that sort of extreme reaction is not a happy/comfortable dog, at least not 100% of the time.

[ohmyheck]

I’m so sorry @Cat_Tap. I remember following the thread when you got him.

You’ve done your absolute best by this dog. Very very best. He has become an untenable threat to you physically and also to your mental health. Not to mention others in his sphere.

In your position I’d euthanize as soon as I could arrange it.

Hugs from afar during this tough time

[Demerara_Stables]

If money is no object, I would ask if the trainer could transport him to a vet hospital where they will fully sedate him and complete all diagnostics in one visit. If there is nothing on diagnostics, then I would ask the trainer if he would take him as a surrender. It’s possible the dog can be rehabilitated, but only by an extremely experienced hand with multiple safety precautions.

I’m so sorry.

[trubandloki]

@GraceLikeRain

My personal stance:
A responsible breeder should take him back no questions asked. If not, I’d ask if the trainer is interested in taking him on as a surrendered training dog. If not, I’d contact a breed specific rescue with full transparency. If that was exhausted, humane euthanasia is not an unkind end for any dog.

With the information provided I don’t think anyone online can determine if it’s genuine aggression, reactivity, fear, and the likelihood of rehab. They are big dogs and any aggression should be taken seriously. Best of luck with next steps.

Having re-read your long post about getting him, I agree with the quoted post.

I am not against euthanasia for behavioral issues at all, but in this case I think this dog deserves a chance.

[RedHorses]

If you, as an experienced dog person with breed specific experience, are unable to spot and prevent every attack I think it would be irresponsible to pass this dog on to anyone. While they may be able to divert the dog for a while, at some point the dog will hurt someone.

He’s attacked you three times, not counting the times you diverted him, and otherwise been a very good dog for you. What number of attacks is okay? What number warrants euthanasia?

Your vet has said tranquilizers are required for future care. If you pass the dog on, that information will probably be lost, putting the next vet and techs at risk. Are you comfortable with that?

[GraceLikeRain]

@Cat_Tap

That would not solve anything just make him someonelse’s problem.

I don’t have full visibility of course. However, if this dog is stranger friendly, well socialized, has amazing off leash recall, I think it could be a misalignment of dog and handler. There are high drive intelligent dogs I know that would be a very poor match for me and could boil over because of my skillset plus their innate traits.
The fact that he didn’t put his mouth on the OP displays a level of self regulation. Being knocked is terrifying and totally unacceptable but I don’t know if the dog is beyond reasonable behavior modification. I’m very pro behavior euthanasia. I just can’t personally say yes absolutely with the information provided and we were asked to provide our opinions.

[hallie2]

@Cat_Tap

Here is the problem, he has attacked me viciously on three occasions.

it is indeed, heartbreaking. but you can’t keep a dog which has attacked you and of which you are scared. there have been too many news stories lately of dogs killing owners or children. You at least have the advantage of knowing what your dog is capable of. I can’t imagine this dog is a happy, content creature w/ this level of unpredictable aggression. The breeder should be falling over themselves to pick the dog up, have him euthanized, and refund you. But they probably won’t. I’m so sorry. it is a devastating decision to make, esp in a young dog.

[GraceLikeRain]

Sorry. Just realized you are the OP. It sounds like you want to euthanize. You don’t need the permission of us. You are the only one privy to the full details so I don’t think any of us can really provide endorsement or a counter argument. Best of luck.

[jherold]

I think the op just needed validation that her thoughts were not unreasonable. They aren’t.

[SusanO]

Yes, at first, I thought this was not a bad dog, but a bad dog for this person. Then it was horrible at the vet. So that pretty much struck that theory down. The owner absolutely does not need this dog at all. Too dangerous for her - sounds like the dogs that kill their owners or the kid down the road. If I was the OP I would have a talk with the trainer to see if she would take the dog and assess it, but not to place it back in the owner’s home. There are so many friendly dogs without this kind of temperament that get put to sleep in shelters every day and the rescues are full of them. Hard to rationalize sending the dog on to somebody else.

[anonevent]

I’m sorry that you’re in a position to have to consider this. I’ve had to have a behavioral euthenasia of a dog once. It’s a special type of pain. I worked with trainers and a veterinary behaviorist for many years. He and I both worked hard, but it was unsustainable.

One thing about your situation that would indicate that BE is appropriate, is the concern that if hurts you severely enough that you cannot be his caretaker, it wouldn’t be safe to ask another person to care for him. He’d be stuck without care. It may be most merciful to avoid putting him through that and giving him as safe and kind of a passing as possible with an in home vet.

If you do wind up choosing behavioral euthanasia, you may find the Facebook Group “Losing Lulu” helpful. They will not let you join before the euthanasia, FYI.

[Demerara_Stables]

Also wanted to add that while I don’t believe this dog is the right fit for you, the right trainer can make a world of difference (if your trainer would consider taking the dog themselves). We worked with 3 trainers and multiple vets over 6 years for a reactive dog and made zero progress. We recently found the right trainer and ours is a different dog. We had given up ever allowing him around strangers but now he’s walking right by strangers and sitting next to them without batting an eye. Good luck

[frugalannie]

Cat Tap, how have things resolved today? My thoughts based your your description of this morning’s events are as follows:

1. You cannot keep this dog. He is the wrong dog for you at this stage in your life, and may always have been the wrong dog at any stage.

2. I second contacting his breeder to see if they will take him back. I called the breeder of my now 10 yo dog as she had developed a health issue that the vet was unable to resolve. Breeder’s response: Get her to me. I’ll pay to have my vet see her and will take her back if he issue can’t be resolved.

3. I think the suggestion of your trainer taking him on is very worthy of consideration although they may decline.

4. Euthanasia is a viable and good solution. Safety must come first, and this behavior could well get worse, not better.

Please care for yourself. We have your back.

[Cat_Tap]

Thank you very much for all the replies, they are appreciated.

I have calmed down. My trainer/therapist just spent two hours with me. The dog sat happily beside us calm and quiet. The trainer specializes in behavioral problems and is also a Social Worker so therapy is for both the dog and I.

She is not against euthanasia but stated that I should wait until I can think calmly and rationally as that decision cannot be reversed.

She pointed out the triggers which always involved with me bending over him when I was in an already anxious state and how to avoid them. Right now I am dealing with flooded barn, excessive heat, chemotherapy and a very sore pec muscle and arm. She insists I lighten my load and get some physical help along with the emotional help she can provide.

We have not ruled out veterinary exam re brain abnormality and or anxiety meds.for the dog. I could probably use some of that myself.
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For now we will continue our weekly sessions, avoiding any possible triggers.

I should add he has not drawn blood or escalated from the initial outburst.

He has never threatened strangers and seems to enjoy contact with people. It seems that part of the problem is ME.