Would it be a really bad idea to take this TB mare?

[Jealoushe]

Only you can say if you are ready to commit financially AND for the long road of training a young horse who may or may not be useable for you in the future.

I have personally seen many talented riders who weren’t super educated yet get young TBs only to have them ruin their confidence entirely, and the horse ends up ruined, and the rider loses interest/sells horse.

I love TBs and training young horses but I will suggest a made horse for learning riders day in and day out.

Also agree with @widge, its more work and complicated retraining OTTBs than greenies who have not raced.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@Cowboy_Girl

Your first two sentences say it all… Trainer bought horses she can’t afford, she knows your capabilities and is trying to pawn off her mistake on you, her client.
Red lags all around.

This for me, almost above all else, is the dealbreaker. It’s not a situation where your coach objectively likes this horse and thinks despite the horse’s age/gender/breed/size the horse would still be a good match for a petite, somewhat under-confident inexperienced rider. The trainer has a material interest in unloading the horse quickly, cost-wise.

I hate to criticize someone I don’t know, but the fact you say your trainer is often broke, doesn’t care about money, and is a good horseperson who struggles and often sells horses to her students–even if there are success stories–makes me more dubious.

I’m in NJ. I was at a barn once without an indoor, and hardly rode all winter. Even then, it was often only at the walk. I’m pretty dubious about any barn without an indoor that says it’s a suitable place for restarting a TB used to be in heavy work (lazy or not). Forget snow and ice, there’s hard footing, wind, and darkness.

[Heinz_57]

If she is financially under water now, why are we thinking the horse is going to be around to lease in the spring? Wouldn’t she sell it elsewhere if you didn’t buy it? I feel like a 4-5yo 17h TB that is quiet is going to be a pretty easy sell on the open market unless astronomically priced or wholly unsound.

[Reeses]

@Heinz_57

If she is financially under water now, why are we thinking the horse is going to be around to lease in the spring? Wouldn’t she sell it elsewhere if you didn’t buy it? I feel like a 4-5yo 17h TB that is quiet is going to be a pretty easy sell on the open market unless astronomically priced or wholly unsound.

She worked out a situation where she can manage and maintain for the time being. She is willing to hold her for me to lease in the spring. She’d rather scrape by and keep the mare to give me time to decide, then sell her to someone she doesn’t know. She knows me and knows that even if I left her barn with the mare, that I would always do what’s right by the animal, because I am like that with all my animals. This is why she’s a bad business woman and again, why she doesn’t have a dime to her name.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

It sounds like you are really romanticizing this trainer. I think it’s wonderful if a trainer puts a good match for a horse over just selling the horse to whoever, but being a good horsewoman and a decent businessperson aren’t antithetical–for example, selling this horse for a good price to a more experienced rider isn’t “bad” if she’s hard up.

I know people who aren’t super-experienced who did (with the help of a trainer) have very positive experiences with OTTBs, but TBH, they had access to an indoor over the winter, could give the horse consistent rides (didn’t have families and long commutes), and I’m not sure that sounds like your current situation.

[OnAMission]

I think what you like about this trainer person is what could potentially get you at least slightly hosed by her. She’s just trying to park this mare hoping to get her back some day IMO; when she’s ready for her back I suspect things could sour. If you’re good with this trainer person now, keep it that way by not getting this entangled with her and her horse stashing ways.

This isn’t anything about the mare for me, other than she is young and green and there is a lot of ground to cover with her that you probably don’t want in the mix with your trainer person. I’d want to keep those lines pretty separate so as not to mess up a situation that’s currently working for you. And in the interest of not finding yourself with a horse that you don’t want any more and what?? she’s a great mare, I can’t believe you’re having troubles with her and she finds a buyer on the side and oh hey I’ll take her off your hands but for a low ball price… Just too messy.

[Angela_Freda]

@Reeses

She has told me as far as the size of this horse, that bigger is better, it’s the little ones that disappear out from under you.

How big are you?
I’m 5’2", 110# and 55 y.o…
16hh is plenty big enough for me. My last horse was a 16.2, wide TB, but he was 18.
I’d love a 14.2 hh hony. If their solidly built they don’t disappear out from under you. And the big one sure can go really high.
.

[Texarkana]

I see this two ways:

There are red flags galore. The reality is a lot will go wrong for you on this endeavor.

But… everyone has to start somewhere. You can wait around for the perfect horse, but you may never find one.

So how much risk can you absorb? How many resources do you have available? And how important is riding to you? Because I guarantee you will do a ton of learning, but it may not be in the saddle…

[Heinz_57]

@Angela_Freda

I’d love a 14.2 hh hony. If their solidly built they don’t disappear out from under you.

My main ride these days is a 14.1h pony and I’m 5’7" (his predecessor was 17.2 OTTB) OP didn’t say how tall she is but I’m guessing if she’s petite that a large pony with some body or small horse would be plenty big. Many people are a little scared of really big horses, sometimes subconsciously, and if there are already confidence issues at play a big horse can exacerbate that.

[glitterless]

You can definitely ride in the winter without an indoor. You just need to ensure that you have decent footing to ride on.

[Reeses]

I can’t remember the last time I was on a horse under 16hh, maybe that’s one of the reasons why I’m having confidence issues, always looking at that long way down!

[Bluey]

@Reeses

Yes all the horses she trained she has sold to her students, of course for less money than she would get on the outside. This is why she is broke, she doesn’t care about money and therefore ends up in debt and her whole operation goes under. Happy accident foal happened when she bought a mare and didn’t know the mare was pregnant.
She’s out there, honestly But there’s even an article here on COTH showcasing how she retrained a gaited horse into a showjumper. So there are things like that and then other crazy stuff, so hard for me to know sometimes what actually makes sense, which is why I’m posting here haha

That doesn’t sound like someone to get too involved with, that would be a worry if depending too much on what that trainer has in mind for you and that mare, when it seems trainer itself is not quite stable?

Depending on how risk taker you are, you may just follow along, but be sure to have it all in writing, if a lease, what terms and for how long, have a quick way to get out if you need to, in writing and with a copy of the contract, if a sale, a clean bill of sale, etc.
Do be ready to have to reorganize and find some way to get out of it if things go wrong, if you own the mare and other arrangements have to be made.

[joiedevie99]

If you are ready to buy, spend the next 3 months learning the market. Join the Facebook groups, and check in on the sales sites. See what is actually out there in your budget.

[carman_liz]

Ok so my 2 cents…large horse=large bills, broad scale wise…feed.hay…etc, large horse=higher fall point for a rider,= bigger bills. Large horse=bigger bones to break, bigger muscles to try to work thru a buck or her fighting you on something.

I know you said money is not an issue and ya I am a lil jealous lol. But, do you really want to risk spending that money? If she is broke, how is this mare going to look come spring with the feed and hay costs she will incur? If you say sorry no deal in the spring is she going to try to subtly guilt trip you about it until you cave? I get that she cares about the horses and wants them to go where she still sees them and knows they are cared for. However in all honesty it sounds like she has found a way to hoard her horses and make money off of them lol. Idk how tall you are, your age, or how long you have been riding but if this huge mare gets hot, can you reasonably control her? She is calm now, what about the spring crazies? What about when she goes into heat and the ‘mare’ really comes out? If the arena is outdoor how much will her hot blooded young mare nature cause spookiness and risk your safety more than need be?

Not that she is a bad horse at all, those are just the first few worries that pop into my head. Can you just do a shareboard type thing thru the winter? X amount a month and a lesson a week on this mare or something?

Please keep in mind, even if you have unlimited funds, you only have what you have now for body parts, bones can only break a small amount of ways, nerves can only be damaged so much, muscles bruised or tore only to a certain point…before all the money in the world still cannot fix those body parts enough to sit a horse safely or happily again.

Whatever decision you make still wishing you the best of luck, jingles!!

[SillyHorse]

You say in your original post that you are inexperienced. Who is going to train this mare? Your trainer, that’s who. And you will be paying her to do it. This is not a great situation.

I know you say the mare is very quiet, but there’s a good reason for the saying, “Green plus green equals black and blue.” If you are serious about buying a first horse, get one that will teach you, not the other way around.

[findeight]

Question for OP, can you define exactly how trainer “will work with me”? Set up regular weekly lessons and put in Pro rides weekly? What are her rates like? Does she have a rate sheet explaining all charges? You need to know the ongoing costs here. You will need help and lots of it so find out now.

Since you admit to being inexperienced, you need to carefully read and understand the boarding contract. Boarding is a business, as is training and teaching, so like any other business things need to be put in writing. If this trainer tries to tell you not to worry about paying her or dodges questions about specific costs? Thats a giant red flag.

Trainer is a service provider, not your friend. Great to be friendly but trainer is NOT your friend or enemy, they are depending on clients, including you, for their living. This one doesn’t sound too…organized, if you buy this young mare counting on trainer to supervise, you better define how thats going to work, price it out and get it in writing. Don’t see how this person is still operating if shes underpricing services and collecting cast off horses. Plus that, shes giving you quite a bit of bad information and leaving more challenging details out, don’t see how she will stay in business long term. If she drops out on you, where will you move the horse should you buy it?

This doesn’t sound like it has the makings of a positive first horse experience but does hint at trouble ahead. Since money is no problem, why not move to a barn with an indoor so you can get saddle time in year round and maybe has some suitable lease horses?

[showy]

If the horse is all the things she’s claiming it to be, couldn’t she post an ad on Facebook and get the horse off her feed bill? It sounds like a lovely mare- for someone else and I’m sure someone would scoop her up. I’m suspicious she “only sells to clients.”

Trainer is duping you. If you want a nice horse to call yours, I agree with many other posters. Buy a been there, done that type who you’ll have a blast with. I’ve seen this situation a million times. Green+green= black and blue.

[furlong47]

@Reeses

I’m 5’3, 115 lbs. I can’t remember the last time I was on a horse under 16hh, maybe that’s one of the reasons why I’m having confidence issues, always looking at that long way down!

I’m 5’10" and think 15.2 is great you definitely don’t need a 17 hand horse. I don’t even want a 17 hand horse! Certain disciplines seem to value the giant ones, but if you’re planning to do low level dressage you don’t need a massive horse. A small, sporty one can be more fun and an easier ride than a behemoth that turns like a school bus.

[MsM]

I think the biggest factor for me arguing against this horse is that you repeatedly said that you lack confidence. You may hear from folks here who bought a green horse when they were not advanced riders, but those who succeeded tended to be the bold types who could forge ahead even if they are dong things “wrong”.

I also agree that if you get into a lease/purchase that you specify the trainer’s help and cost.

Personally, I would back away from the trainer’s issues/virtues If you dont need to make a decision now, then dont! Continue with lessons as weather and footing allows. Trainer may keep or sell the mare before Spring, You can re-evaluate in the Spring and decide if you want to buy a horse then.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@Reeses

This is why she is broke, she doesn’t care about money and therefore ends up in debt and her whole operation goes under.

I know lots of people are partial to OTTBs in this thread, but I think everyone agrees that when an inexperienced rider gets an OTTB, they need a riding and training plan with a stable (no pun intended) trainer, and it doesn’t sound like that is part of the package.

Some of the stuff the trainer has allegedly said to you, like bigger horses are easier to ride because they don’t disappear from under you, or that less trained horses don’t have bad habits you need to untrain sound like either desperation to “sell” the horse to you after she overbought horses or just flat-out not true.

(I’m 5’1 and petite and FWIW I find that the “disappearing” act has more to do with a horse’s build than height. Narrow, shoulder-less wonder horses can seem to slide you off like minnows while a short, stock thick-necked cob feels super-solid to me. But a bigger horse can simply be more difficult for a short-legged rider to maneuver around an arena).

I’m in the area, and ride dressage. I don’t know who this person is, and they might be a great rider, but all dressage trainers I’m aware of have at least access to an indoor over the winter. Not to harp on it or sound like a DQ (I’m not) but for footing alone, it’s necessary to keep horses in something resembling work.