Would it be a really bad idea to take this TB mare?

[lcw579]

@Reeses

You mentioned there was an article about this trainer. You could post the link to it and put us all out of our misery. Then we could go about recommending better options for you.

OTTB mares are a dime a dozen and winter is not the time to be getting a green one with or without an indoor. Take a deep breath and take off the Black Stallion Glasses! You will find another horse who you connect with and who suits you better. Take your time and shop. It’s fun. Spend the winter looking as you test ride with new trainers. Traditionally prices will come down as winter sets in and people need to reduce bills and there are always the “we need him gone before we ship to FL” specials. Better yet, find a new trainer and lease something for a while while you decide what type of ride makes you happiest. You have all the time in the world to figure this out, don’t let anyone pressure you into quick decisions.

[floppyammy]

@Reeses

So I’m am particually attracted to TBs as a breed, so that may be part of the attachment here.

If TBs are your preference, I am confident that you could find an experienced, mature TB with a suitable temperament for under $20k in the current market.

[BrownDerby]

@Reeses

When I first came to this trainer, the horse she was teaching on was a 4 year old paint gelding. She convinced me that it’s the temperment, that matters. He was great, I lessoned and did practice rides on him for 6 months, no issues while in the saddle but he started getting difficult on the ground, biting and kicking while tacking or trying to put on/take off his blanket, and trainer was well aware. A woman (not associated with the trainer but with tIshe barn that owned him) bought him, and then never rode him and gave him back because he tried to kill her while she was handling him. I

Is this the horse you wanted to buy so badly in your earlier thread? Where you stated you were not interested in TBs because of past trauma and PTSD?

Color me confused.

[Reeses]

that changed, I thought my bad experiences were because of the breed and not the fact that I was riding at a crazy lesson-factory type barn with overworked horses.

[Tha_Ridge]

@Reeses

So I’m am particually attracted to TBs as a breed, so that may be part of the attachment here. Also the really experienced horses under 20K around here usually have multiple buyers and there is always someone willing to buy without a PPE. Not that it’s a reason to buy an unsuitable horse, but with this mare I wouldn’t have to go through the frustrating process of horse shopping, but once she’s mine I guess that’s where the frustrations would come in!

OP, I’m an amateur who buy/trains/resells OTTBs, and thanks to some sleuthing, I’m pretty certain that I ride about 20 minutes away from you. I understand the affinity for an OTTB 110 percent and I don’t think that that, in and of itself, is bad decision. I think this horse, with this trainer, is a terrible decision. If you want a horse off the track, I can absolutely help you find a suitable horse and a suitable program to put it in. (And as I presently don’t have any TBs for sale, I have zero dog in this fight other than not wanting to see you get hurt or a horse get ruined.)

[Reeses]

Thank you so much! I may just take you up on this after the holidays. Good to know this could be achievable for me by doing it the right way

[Scribbler]

I clicked backwards and ended up reading your story about the previous trainer trying to unload a 4 year old Paint lesson horse on you. At that point you were going walk away from a marginal kind of one horse lesson program to go find a good dressage barn. Now you seem to be back with a fairly marginal trainer agsin?

Sometimes smaller programs can have all kinds of benefits but you need to be wary about getting pulled into the bad financial issues of some trainers.

Anyhow the similarities here are that a trainer is trying to unload a young not fully trained horse on you when that doesn’t seem like your best option.

[carman_liz]

Yes. This!!! I was a kid, dad was still alive that summer so I was about to turn 11. My friend Robin’s parents had just bought a green morgan gelding because he was pretty and she wanted him, she was new to riding, timd, not a bad rider, just green. Bad combo. Not saying all morgans are hyper of course and you are thinking thru everything firat of course which is great. He just knew he could get away with sh!t with her and ohh did he ever. All of us riding over a yr wild kids had rode him by that point and he was great for us, granted he would probably spill me in 5 seconds today haha.

Anyways, He took off across the 10 acre field back to the barn. Me, being on my lets rodeo, jump way too high n be dumb for the fun of it all around mutt bought from a camp amazing mare, took off after him. Robin could NOT get him to stop once he got going. I caught up to her and almost had his reins as we went over the muddy wooden creek bridge, we all went down on the bridge, horse knee to the nose, hoof to the arm, skin gouged out. I am 37, I was almost 11 then, I STILL HAVE THE SCAR ON MY ELBOW AND A BUMP ON MY NOSE!!!

We are totally serious when we say green+green=black and blue. And we say it with the utmost care and worry so that you will not have to go thru some of the stuff we have over the yrs.

[173north]

@Tha_Ridge

OP, I’m an amateur who buy/trains/resells OTTBs, and thanks to some sleuthing, I’m pretty certain that I ride about 20 minutes away from you. I understand the affinity for an OTTB 110 percent and I don’t think that that, in and of itself, is bad decision. I think this horse, with this trainer, is a terrible decision. If you want a horse off the track, I can absolutely help you find a suitable horse and a suitable program to put it in. (And as I presently don’t have any TBs for sale, I have zero dog in this fight other than not wanting to see you get hurt or a horse get ruined.)

Seriously, do not sleep on this offer. @Tha_Ridge has a great eye, if I were looking for an OTTB I’d probably just have her pick one out and put it on the trailer to me. She will steer you in the right direction.

[floppyammy]

@BrownDerby

Is this the horse you wanted to buy so badly in your earlier thread? Where you stated you were not interested in TBs because of past trauma and PTSD?

Color me confused.

OP, I glanced over the thread from 2020 that @BrownDerby is referring to. Two years ago, you got essentially the same advice that has been repeated on this thread.

The overwhelming response on both threads (the one from 2020 and this one) is that the barn you are currently at does not have safe or good practices.

Listen to the expert advice given on this thread and the other one. Shelve the idea of buying a horse for now. Find a better program to ride in, reassess your skills and goals. If buying a horse is really, truly what you want to do, do it in the right program with the right guidance, to ensure your personal wellbeing, safety and long term happiness.

On both threads, from 2020 and today, posters in your area have offered to steer you towards better barns. Take them up on it!

[Reeses]

I have felt intimidated at some other barns (partly because I’m older than most of the clientele and oftentimes the instructor, and I feel like I’m not their ideal client) which is why I keep going back to this one, but i know it’s not good. I hear you guys and the advice given!

[Jackie_Cochran]

Really, don’t worry about being elderly.

I am the oldest rider at my stable at 71. My lesson stable has an extremely active 4-H equestrian program for young riders, plus the college program. EVERYBODY at the stable nowadays is younger than I am. The worse blowback I got was from the lesson horses they use for the kids, I got “comments” from the lesson horses of “Hey lady, you weight 3X as much as my regular riders and you want me to do WHAT?”

I “sold” the idea of me riding their lesson horses with “Hey, I’ve got enough riding experience so I can humanly ride your horses, plus your horses learn that even though I am on the klutzy side riding (weak, bad balance, poor coordination) that they are expected to OBEY their rather imperfect riders” (like not taking off for the gate.)

I have been taking private lessons there for over 10 years now. Since I am the only one in the ring my lessons often end up being higher level seminars on equitation with me, my riding teacher and my lesson horse all participating. Since I have no grand ambition besides riding a horse we can all take our TIME to find the ideal solutions for the three of us for my numerous imperfections riding. Private lessons are more expensive, but you get the instructors undivided attention (usually) for an extended period of time instead of just yells to the equivalent of “keep your heels down, quit yanking on your reins!”

One thing I feel at this stable is a requirement for me to always model good horsemanship, in the saddle and on the ground. That is fine with me, the girls and boys NEED an adult model who is not a professional doing all the necessary stuff around horses.

At my lesson stable I am not the ideal client for my teacher or her other students. So what, even adult riders NEED to see elderly riders so they know that in the far future they will still be able to ride horses. After all, how many elderly riders got confidence from seeing Queen Elizabeth II riding well into her 90s?

[2DogsFarm]

Then for the Love of all that is Safety & Fun with Horses, look up @Tha_Ridge & get yourself a TB you can love & have fun with & a program that will suit you both.
And get the heck out of your current barn!
Hoping to read you did this

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

OP, I’m close to your age, don’t own my own horse, am from the same general area, and I get it.

For many years, I rode in sketchy programs, because, subconsciously I felt I didn’t “deserve” to be at a good barn, because I wasn’t a “good enough” rider. Also, many sketchy places make it very clear that they are desperate for income, so there’s often the feeling that “gosh, my $50-$75 per lesson means so much” that can be a bit of a confidence boost, along with the fact that at such places you’re rarely the worst rider at the barn.

But then I realized that not only was I not progressing, but my confidence had taken a serious hit from riding horses that were not suitable for me, and frankly not trained to respond to appropriate cues.

I realized that many of the behaviors I attributed to my inadequacies as a rider (while I still have MANY, MANY) were due to the fact the horses were not fully sound–hobbling, passing watery poo multiple times during lessons on a frequent basis–and that I could not fully trust my instructor to honestly evaluate my horse and my riding, because of the desperation to stay in business.

Ultimately, we are in this because we love horses. At minimum, it’s necessary to find a barn where horses are respected and you are respected, which includes appropriate direction to suitable mounts.

Even all the “green and green and it worked out” stories you’re hearing here that occurred without serious injury I’m assuming are there because somewhere along the line both horse and rider had correct management and care. Also, it’s just never good to buy a horse because your instructor needs to stay in business. Don’t have that relationship with someone who is coaching you. If you must get a green horse against all advice, get into a suitable program with an experienced trainer (and be prepared to pay for it $$$).

[Reeses]

@Jackie_Cochran you are amazing! I absolutely love your attitude and I can definitely learn from you.

@Impractical_Horsewoman Everything you said is so true. I’ve felt like I am getting so much out of what I’m paying, but I’m not. I’ve been wasting time riding horses that are not right for me. They have all been green, and the one that is well trained is a behemoth draft that is too big for me. She has convinced me this is all great for me, and I’ve trusted her. Everything in her program revolves around trying to fit square pegs into round holes, with regards to the horses and the facilities (no indoor and other issues). “Making it work” essentially.

[blue_heron]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

For many years, I rode in sketchy programs, because, subconsciously I felt I didn’t “deserve” to be at a good barn, because I wasn’t a “good enough” rider. Also, many sketchy places make it very clear that they are desperate for income, so there’s often the feeling that “gosh, my $50-$75 per lesson means so much” that can be a bit of a confidence boost, along with the fact that at such places you’re rarely the worst rider at the barn.

If you ride in a good barn, with a good trainer, and feel good about your situation, you will quickly become the rider that “deserves” to be there. If you stay in a crappy situation and plateau, it will take much much longer to be that rider.

[findeight]

Not been able to follow this much lately but…do I understand this is the same “trainer” that tried to sell OP a 4yo paint gelding who went after the gal who did buy it???

Oh, say it aint so

[2DogsFarm]

Sorry, but 'Tis so
Somewhere upthread OP related the Killer Paint story.

[findeight]

OMG, like continuing to eat at a restaurant that makes you sick every time you eat there. Or getting terrible hair cuts and dye jobs that make your hair fall out yet going back again and again to the same salon and “esthetician”. THINK.

For those who related stories of success with this type horse/ novice rider situation.
Did the seller or trainer who advised you to buy misrepresent the horse? Lie about an easily verified performance record? Lie about a “ bee sting” causing a 13 year old to be bucked off and LAUGH?

I know we get attached to some horses but it does not work both ways and a horse you love reacts to the way you handle it, not your feelings. It will hurt you, nothing personal, just react to your lack of knowledge, experience, ability to direct and guide once in the saddle.

Horses do not have your best interests at heart, certainly not young horses. Thats why you depend on experienced advice. Not a proven liar. This mare could have soundness issues that kept her from selling…PPEs are expensive. You think you are getting told the truth there? Trainer laughing at you the way she did the 13 year old?

Also, echoing somebody upthread, if you want a young, pretty chestnut TB mare off the track? They are available in large numbers,

[Reeses]

I can totally see how it would seem crazy for me to keep going back, as you said. But understand that in all the time I have been with her, nothing bad has happened. Not on the four year old paint, or the four-year-old thoroughbreds, or other green horses of hers that I have been on. Not once have I fallen off or been subject to anything dangerous (exception was the paint
Being nasty on the ground but even then I wasn’t hurt). So because of that, there was credibility in her assuring me I was safe. Maybe I got lucky or maybe because we always kept the lesson within the capabilities of the horse. I’ve been injured in the past on schoolmaster type horses. So well, it may seem to make no sense at all, it all made sense to me. That being said, I question it here because of other details that are conflicting, or things I have read or learned from others about thoroughbreds and young horses, or just general red flags about her and her business.