Would you buy an ugly face? A small eye?

[Pally]

I went to look at a 5 year old TB gelding the other day. Plan would be to get him going a bit and eventually resell. Note, I just went to meet with him in person, we need to ship to an indoor to actually evaluate any athletic potential, and thus before any final decisions get made. But I want to go into that next trial with an idea of how much his um…interesting…look might affect his resale potential.

He has a prominent bump on the bridge of his nose. It’s not between the eyes or a roman nose, just right between the two. But it’s the eyes themselves that make it really odd. They are tiny …or maybe they are actually large but just sunk way in there behind all his soft floppy eyelids. I don’t think that I’ve ever seen anything quite like it. The handful of horses I can think of with a small eye have had almost overly “tight” eyelids. Also, what I can actually see of it seems like a very “soft” eye. The seller says he is very sweet, and it truly seems like he is a doll (though I’ll certainly be keeping an eye on the attitude as we get him doing something in the indoor).

I know what classic wisdom says about small eyes. I know some people won’t touch them with a 90 foot pole. It’s definitely something I look at when scouring ads. However, if I think about it, I’ve handled a lot of horses, and I’m not sure how well the theory truly holds - at least there have been plenty of …hazardous to my health…large eyed horses (they were just popping right on out of there :eek:). I think I tend to look for “hard” vs. “soft” more than just size. A couple of years back I sold one that some people might have considered small eyed, and also had white in it thanks to his big blaze. He was one of the most easy going and fun horses I have ever had, and is still being that guy for a kid today. But that was way less obvious than this situation.

I guess I’m torn between which old idiom is stronger, “Pretty sells,” or “You don’t ride heads.” He has some other things going for him that are certainly keeping him in my consideration…will the next round of buyers feel the same way?

[Nezzy]

looks don’t make a good horse. if the horse is worth riding, stop judging by how he looks. i have owned a few gorgeous but unsafe horses. i’d take an ugly horse that is a great ride, any day.

[RockinHorse]

As a resale, probably not. As a personal horse I would. After all, an animal I really like is never ugly in my eyes.

[pinkpony321]

One of the kindest, easiest horses I have ever ridden (and started from a baby) had the ugliest, bumpiest head and the littlest piggliest eyes you’ve ever seen. Sold him for a good amount to a doting adult lady who he still carts around the hunters, despite her continuous misses and inability to count down the lines.

[BUSY]

If you are questioning this appearance issue ??? then when you resell the potential buyers will also.
If you were keeping him and he is a safe, talented strange looking horse that would be one thing .
If you think he has some unattractive features that are concerning to your eyes and plan to sell him … well ???

I’d keep looking - first impressions matter.

[Arcadien]

I tried small eyes 3x and found impossible to deal with character flaws in all 3. I wouldn’t touch it again, but that is just my experience. I recall Lucinda Green had one with a small eye which was a great one, that’s why I tried to look past it. But not again! I guess it would matter if you were considering resale - some people just won’t go near it again, like me, so your potential buyers pool is likely smaller.

[Willy_Von_Whompers]

Wouldn’t bother me if he was everything I wanted in all other aspects. I’d see it as character anyway…

[Highflyer]

For a horse I was going to keep, it wouldn’t matter at all. For a sale horse, it will have to be that much nicer or quieter to ride than the pretty one, but if you really like everything else and and aren’t trying to sell it as a show hunter, than yes.

[alibi_18]

How ridiculous.

The size of their eyes has NOTHING to do with their behavior.
Neither does their number of swirls…

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder.

[Pally]

Highflyer - I actually thought to myself “I almost hope he doesn’t go like a hunter, there probably isn’t any fancy hunter bridle that is totally going to hide that”. Conformation wise, I’m thinking he’s not anyway, but I’ll have to see him move to really know.

Alibi - I guess that’s where I’m hemming and hawing a little. The reason we avoid it is supposed to be the link to behaviour - which I haven’t seen that consistently. Not like the link between, for example, a closed shoulder to choppy movement, or small feet to soundness issues.

I totally get the keep vs. sell aspect of it. I’m not keeping him, but I like to get my prospects to the point where the next people might like to. I know it will reduce the buyer pool, so I guess I’m trying to get a feel for how much so with this thread. Like more than being 15.3 instead of 16.3, or moreso than having some benign jewellery or old injury. Or being a mare or whatever other thing people aren’t really looking for. I’m realistic, that in my budget, it’s not all unicorns and rainbows.

[Bluey]

Look at your market when you are making business decisions.

If you are buying, training and selling as a business, if the horse, for any reason, won’t be marketable, why even go there?

If he is odd looking and your market includes those that will look past any that may look odd, then why not check him out?

[red_mares]

[QUOTE=alibi_18;9011433]

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder.[/QUOTE]

Call me vain, call me shallow, but horses are too expensive for me to buy an ugly one. I don’t need to spend $1K on board every month (my area) to look at a head and think “woof” when I see it.

It would have to truly exceptional in every other way for me to buy an ugly, pig-eyed horse.

[Sancudo]

My horse of a lifetime was a gangly orange guy with a big head, big ears, pig eyes, and 3 sarcoids on his face, that when treated left half dollar sized patches of bare skin under one eye, on a cheek and below one ear.

Just about the homeliest thing you ever saw. Undersaddle, doing dressage, with “clothes” on, he was breathtaking.

We got more than one 10 from judges, so no one cared about his clown face, least of all me

[NancyM]

My big time jumper from decades ago had a plain head, and small eyes. He was a superstar, and I was so lucky to have him. Could have sold him a hundred times, if I had wanted to. His eyes looked like Robert Mitchum (if you remember the movie actor from those days). But his heart was gold. My dad bought him for me from his breeder as a long yearling (he had failed to sell at the TB yearling sale for $1500 and they have brought him home), and when we brought him home to our farm and my mother saw him, she turned and went back into the house without saying a word. Years later, she was also a huge member of his fan club. He was SPECIAL. Beauty is as beauty does, especially in horses. Don’t look at his eye, look at his heart.

[dkcbr]

As a few others have suggested, for resale I’d not buy. Not because I believe the popular notions about heads and eyes and character, but because enough potential customers do that I think you might have a hard time finding a buyer at a good price.

But, fwiw, I wanted to relate my story from buying one of my horses…I had been shopping for quite awhile and had found one mare that I got along with particularly well and the price was right. After several rides, I decided I would buy her.

But she had an oddly shaped head with an exceptionally dished face. From some angles it was very pretty, but from others it was just…odd. With stunning clarity I can remember standing in the barn aisle looking at her and making my decision to buy, and hoping I could get used to the look and - also - whether it would be a detriment down the road should I decide to sell for any reason…

I ended up loving that quirky face/head, and eventually folks referred to her fondly as “the dishy-faced mare.” I had that horse for 21 years until I lost her at age 29. Best buying decision EVER.

So…

[McGurk]

I agree with the other posters who broke it down to personal horse, sure, resale or project horse, no. Making money on a resale is hard enough as is, I would add this extra obstacle

I have never had known a nice pig-eyed horse, I’m sure there are some, I just haven’t run across them. (I do think there’s a possible correlation with behavior and pig-eyedness; since their range of vision is smaller, they are most likely to be suspicious and spooky. ) I have learned to love some horses with big plain heads and some with ugly heads; but I don’t know that I’d buy one as a resale project.

[Wayside]

Absolutely. I actually tend to be drawn to ugly horses because I know they aren’t skating through life on their good looks, haha.

Years ago, I knew a pony who was absolutely hideous. Coarse mismatched parts, fleabitten grey, lop eared, roman nosed, pig-eyed, goose rumped, swaybacked. Looked like he was put together by an angry committee who started making bad decisions just to spite each other. But he was a priceless packer who could tote the little kiddos around a hunter course like nobody’s business.

To be fair, I agree that it will limit resale options some. I do have some friends who won’t look at horses that aren’t over 16 hands, bay, and pretty. But I have a lot more who want something safe and quiet.

[TheHotSensitiveType]

Your first impression is probably going to be the same as your potential buyers. HOWEVER, if he makes up for having a bit of a homely head with a wonderful temperament and good movement then I do not think you will have too much trouble selling. I like to think there are plenty of reasonable buyers out there who are judging the horse on its abilities/suitability and not just looks!

I did pass on a horse that had a large bump between his two eyes. The bump made him pretty homely, but on top of that he was an average at best mover and was very fearful (i.e. lots and lots of retraining needed and may never be suitable for the average rider). The poor dude just didn’t have much going for him…

[dotneko]

I am shallow. When I went searching for my competition horse, in addition to a certain level of training, I wanted a horse that was nice to look at.
My theory was if the horse went lame tomorrow and I had to retire him and look at him for the next 20 years out my kitchen window, at least I wanted a good looker.

Now, for a student, handsome is as handsome does - especially for those with a limited budget.

[mvp]

I can’t explain why, but I have have a mare whose eye was a bit small (though not hard)… and it has improved over the couple of years I have had her and educated her.

For any buyer or rider what is vitally important is the ability to read the horse, to infer his state of mind at any moment and also, his more salient character. You can’t get that from the size of the eye alone, IMO. But anyone standing around with the horse in person should feel that they can infer generosity and kindness from him… no matter which bits of his body language convey that, and no matter whether or not they can put into words their reasons for thinking they have read the horse right.

All this is to say that I think you have to meet the horse in person, put a little pressure on him and see what he offers back. At the point, you’ll know how to consider the piggy eye and bumpy head in the larger context of his body and behavior.

I say this as someone who is pretty good at sizing up a horse’s mind. I’m trying to get better at explaining to myself and to others what features of the horse’s looks or behavior I use to tell me about his inner mental state.