Would you ever consider a 8/9/10yr old OTTB as a prospect for resale?

[weixiao]

I’ve been perusing the CANTER website lately and unfortunately missed out on a couple that I really liked.

I have noticed there are a few really lovely 8/9/10 yr olds who are well put together, good movers, have good bloodlines for sport, and are (allegedly) sound after 50-70 starts. Initially, I’d really wanted an event prospect because that is what I want to do but I have another young hunter right now and it is just so much easier to resell them. Assuming that the horse is sound and quiet, would you consider an older horse to restart for resale? Does anyone have experience with some of the older horses off of the track? Are they more set in their ways and harder to restart?

[Alpha_App]

For resale, probably not. It would have to be a pretty awesome horse to be able to both catch up to other 10 y/o OTTBs training AND be able to make any sort of profit. From a business perspective… but if you’re just looking to give an ottb a better chance at a second life then by all means!

[EventerAJ]

Not a good idea for resale. Potential buyers are more accepting of greenness, lack of show record, and needing improvement in a horse aged 4-6 rather than 8-10. A four year old learning his changes and trotting cross-rails has more upside than a 10 year old horse doing the same.

There are some buyers out there who would consider your 10 year old restarted OTTB…but it’s not a large market, and probably even smaller in the hunter world.

[tua37516]

As a resale absoulutely NEVER would I consider an older directly off the track OTTB in that age range for a hunter resell. That is a LOT of wear and tear on the horse…granted if they are sound they probably have legs like iron but it is super risky.

You won’t have any buyers for the average sound, big, nice mover in that age range that you would get in a comparable 3-6yo. You would literally have to a have a one in a million special amazing mover with a killer 10++ jump amazing trainable personality. It would have to have lead changes. It would have to be beyond special.

Let’s put it this way. I am shopping for an hunter prospect now. I go to dreamhorse.com, my search criteria is 15.3h+, 3-7yo, within 100 miles of my zip code. I’d never see your horse.

[DMK]

To be fair I know a horse who raced until he was 7 with 50+ starts and then went on to win the zone 4 years in a row (and place two other years) - all typically on half the shows his competitors showed up at, and people were lining up to pay an awful lot of money for him.

But that said, when you are selling a horse you need a lot of luck, a lot of expertise and you need to stack the deck in your favor. The one thing you KNOW affects resale, regardless of breed, is age+experience+results. If you purchase an older OTTB, you have to consider what his “comps” are (think like real estate). If he’s 12 and seasoned at showing, and is winning, chances are he will be a good comp for other 12 year olds people might look at. If he’s 12 and ready to break his green, his comps are likely to be 4-7 year olds. That’s not a good comp from a buyer perspective.

And in my above example, that horse was winning the zone by the time he was 9, so he was always comparable to his peers in competition when it came to age+results, except for the fact he was also beating them, so the fact that he had only been showing for 1.5 years meant experience wasn’t really important.

[EAY]

[QUOTE=DMK;7289031]

And in my above example, that horse was winning the zone by the time he was 9, so he was always comparable to his peers in competition when it came to age+results, except for the fact he was also beating them, so the fact that he had only been showing for 1.5 years meant experience wasn’t really important.[/QUOTE]

The advantage of the older horse is that with the right brain you can move more quickly in your training than you can with a younger 3 or 4 year old. With an experienced trainer/rider and a sound, willing, talented horse you could be doing the baby greens in a few months.

I do agree, however, with the other posters that it has to be a really special horse (and you need a great eye or a lot of luck or both to find these and often good connections) to make the gamble worthwhile. A horse that is still sound after several years of racing is probably a well put-together tough horse that will hold up to jumping, though I would definitely x-ray ankles, hocks, knees, and front feet and have a really good vet do the PPE. Many of the horses that enter race training but never race or who only have a couple or few starts retire because they have soundness issues or conformation that makes the trainer feel that the horse is not going to hold up or they’re just so lacking in athleticism that it’s not worth it to race them. A horse that’s not sound or athletic enough to race is probably not going to be sound or athletic enough for a jumping career.

I do think that 8 would probably be my age limit for a resale prospect. You want the horse to have a fairly substantial record before he hits the double digits.

[DMK]

[QUOTE=EAY;7289130]
The advantage of the older horse is that with the right brain you can move more quickly in your training than you can with a younger 3 or 4 year old. With an experienced trainer/rider and a sound, willing, talented horse you could be doing the baby greens in a few months.[/QUOTE]

The other side of that coin is that a horse who has done one career for a long time has perhaps more unlearning to do to pick up the skills in a new career. Not all the time/all horses, but it is definitely a factor that needs to be considered. Much like a horse who has consistently gotten away with an undesirable behavior for many years (like cutting the arena corner), it’s not going to “unlearn” that behavior in a few rides, not if it had 6 years of reinforced behavior. Not that racing is an undesirable behavior per se, but the horse cutting the arena corner doesn’t know it is undesirable, it’s just easier for him and as far as he knows, it’s expected since nobody tells him otherwise.

My hunter of many years ago was a great racehorse. I liked watching him run before he came into my care, I liked watching him run after he left my care. When he was given to me after his racing career was over I had trainers approach me to buy him and gallopers who went out of their way to say that he was their favorite horse ever to gallop in the mornings. This was because he was All Business, All the Time. He LOVED his day job and he understood it was about crossing the finish line ahead of as many horses as physically possible. Nobody asked him how he felt about a career change. And when he changed careers he wasn’t spooky, flighty, foolish or hot in the ways OTTBs get an unfair rap for. But oh my, did he think there was nothing finer than getting his neck bow on and settling down into a fine gallop with you standing up in the irons with your reins crossed, along for the ride. He was very agreeable about trying this new stuff but you really had to know racehorses to know why he responded the way he did, and if you didn’t, all that potential energy underneath you was intimidating.

Which kind of gets us back at the exact same place - you really have to a better selector of prospects/trainer/seller than average if you are going to play resale in this area. Unfortunately, my gut feeling is that if you are indeed all these things, chances are you already know the answer to the question (it’s along the lines of “if you have to ask, you probably can’t afford”)…

I do agree about the soundness issue. Those long term successful runners (not the same thing as horses who have been run down the rungs by greedy owners/trainers) are generally Iron Horses and have a form to function build that really works (obviously). In any event you aren’t buying them for resale w/o sufficient results on the PPE for your target price range, so that’s not really a useful point when talking about resale. You buy a horse that doesn’t pass the PPE for resale, that’s a problem regardless of age, breed or prior career.

[foursocks]

For yourself- sure, go for it. For resale- well, as others have said, the horse has to be stupendously amazing to even consider it. With lots of chrome. And/or grey. And 16.2hh or more. And have perfect rads. Etc. etc.

I have an older TB who came to me green. He raced a lot, he sat in a field for several years, he was bought from under the nose of the meat man, had a bit of retraining put into him, and then he came my way as a gift. He is really, really cool- everyone who meets this horse loves him, from dressage people to eventers to jumpers. He has a great brain, great form over fences, lots of scope, moves well, is incredibly kind, and is very handsome- and I probably could have flipped him pretty easily, but (and here is the kicker) not for much.

Luckily I fell in love with him and he decided, after some deliberation, that I should be his person, so we’re stuck with each other!

As for retraining older horses- from my own experience I do love the lack of a dimwit baby brain when teaching this guy new things. He pays attention and is quite serious about his work. On the other hand, he is older so sometimes he thinks I’m being stupid and telling him to do something which is clearly wrong. Babies don’t tend to be quite so secure in their own knowledge (although I did have one who came to me at four sure that I was an idiot and he knew everything, a position he held until his death).

At any rate, if you do decide to take the gamble, I would approach the horse’s retraining just as you would with anything coming off the track, and see what the horse tells you. I adore my guy, and have never regretted bringing him home.

[weixiao]

Thanks for the input guys. I pretty much knew the answer to this one. I really, really like the horse I was thinking of for this but I just can’t justify it I think. I was sort of hoping by posting this I would get some super success stories that would enable me. I do trust my eye to be good enough to pick one and I’m sure someone else will come along with a super home for this guy.

[summerly]

Never say never, depends on the horse, we retired this guy at six, he was let down till he was seven, trained for ten months including showing, sold as a eight yr old for over 15k, competing successfully

http://youtu.be/kPQNinTOqVk

[dani0303]

I would be more likely to take that risk on a 7/8yo as opposed to a 9/10 yo. If the horse is sound, good mover, and a quiet temperament you could make it work. There is always a market for ammy/kid friendly horses. The older ones definitely tend to have better brains.

[dainty_do]

I have not read all the replies, so apologize if this duplicates. As a resale, nope! But, if you like him, and want to give a forever home, and he has a great disposition, and is sound and passes a vet check, go for it.

[ThatBayHorse]

Yes but not if you HAD to make money. My ottb is now 22. He had 69 starts, a black beauty story, and is still super sound. Just depends on how much money you’re looking to make

[ParadoxFarm]

It also depends on what you are talking about show wise. I do local shows and schooling shows. I would absolutely look at an older horse. I find for me personally, they can have better brains. Of course, I don’t want to pay as much as someone shopping for an A-level horse. But not everyone is looking for that 6-year-old superstar!