Would you ever

[elleng0728]

I am looking at a potential new horse. He is a 17.3 KWPN gelding ready to show 3rd level and training 4th. He has had no special maintenance nor had any soundness issues during training or showing. However he had questionable cervical x-rays as a youngster. He is 8 years old.

I am looking at him as my final horse. I am a 53 year old female. My current horse who is a 20 year old SWB is now on his 4th bout of squamous cell cancer on the sheath and am not sure I will have him much longer.

Am I crazy for considering him? I have not gone to try him yet but have seen his video and talked extensively to his rider. I really like what I see so far.

Thoughts and advice are appreciated.

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

Do you have any more information as to the exact nature of the cervical issues?

Is it from an old injury, or is the horse showing early indications of a degenerative disease?

Have you been able to get his pedigree?
Some cervical problems are genetic.

What are your goals?
For instance if the horse was showing signs of cervical arthritis or any other progressive disease at 8 then I would pass.

Say, you decide to take the risk and buy him and then a year down the road , he starts showing symptoms of something degenerative and all you can do is retire him.

So it really depends on if you can afford to keep a horse you can’t ride at such a young age and may require more expensive veterinary care as it ages.

Not sayin that you shouldn’t. Just that I would be asking a lot more questions.
Radiography is not all that expensive but Ultrasounds and MRIs are .
Are you close to a equine veterinarian facility that does diagnostics?
Would the seller be willing to let such tests be done?

I get that a seller would not be that enthused about letting a potential buyer take a horse off the property but as a buyer I would not want to buy a horse that I already knew had questionable x-rays. Especially cervical.

It is very difficult , if not impossible to get a seller to take a horse back if the horse becomes unsound or unrideable permanently.

Did you have your own vet do a PPE? What does your vet think?

I’m sure you know that there are plenty of beautiful sound horses out there. So don’t be in a hurry.

Good luck

[CanteringCarrot]

What do the x-rays look like now?

I generally won’t touch a horse with neck issues with a 10 foot pole.

[netg]

I’d be talking to my trainer and performance vets. I have a mare who has slight issues in her neck due to an injury, which haven’t affected her. We expect to have to inject at some point, and when she had her injury (got her head stuck between barn and fence, and pulled until she popped her face, requiring stitches and months of healing) initially, the vet warned that type of injury would eventually mean arthritis in the neck. I already owned her so there was no decision but to keep caring for her. For a horse owned by someone else, I would look at comparison x-rays for an idea of progression, and also pay close attention to work history.
For me the “I would never” is buying a horse that tall because I’m 5’1".

[BigMama1]

Hard to answer without knowing what recent X-rays look like. If you like the horse enough, probably worth doing a PPE

[atlatl]

@BigMama1

Hard to answer without knowing what recent X-rays look like. If you like the horse enough, probably worth doing a PPE

I’d also consider my budget and what I’d have remaining for maintenance down the road because you will probably need it.

That said, there’s a saying that we ride the horse and not the xrays. YMMV

[OverandOnward]

The question is not “is something going to go seriously wrong, or not?”

The question is if you are prepared to deal with it if it does. Horses are a risk regardless, although you do know of something specific with this one.

Because you mention your own age, I gather you have an extra layer of concern for the long-term future. I would just assume that a potential downside is part of the package with any new horse. Only you can decide if you are prepared to deal with the downside, financially, resources, emotionally, etc.

In your shoes I would approach the cervical issue as high risk, average risk or low risk of being a future problem. And I would define how bad the worst case would be, to know if I were prepared for that. But of course something totally unknown at this time could go wrong and that’s part of horse ownership for all of us to prepare to handle.

Also because of your mention of your age, your post sounds as if you are pondering if you want to be a horse owner at all after your current horse. It’s kind of like adopting a kid when you are 53 years old (ok maybe not as intense re daily life - or maybe it is?). You may be the perfect person to do it! But of course you will have the responsibility for the next one or two decades, whatever happens. And you do need to spell out a fallback plan if you can’t continue to be the active horse owner for health reasons. That won’t necessarily become an issue, but the your own risk is higher for the future, of course.

That’s what I sense is part of your question. Maybe it will help to quantify it in this way? High/average/low risk preference, and ability to deal with worst-case and even intermediate-case scenarios, financially and otherwise.

Good luck on your journey!

[J-Lu]

In addition to the excellent advice you’ve gotten, what is the nature of “questionable cervical x-rays as a youngster”? How good was the vet? How young was he at the time? What did the diagnosing vet say? Will the owner release the x-rays to you/history that prompted the x-rays to you so you can get a quality second opinion? Are there subsequent x-rays and can you get some at a PPE?

I don’t think I know enough to really comment but if you really like this horse, it might be worth requesting the radiographs and appropriate medical history. And perform follow-up radiographs if they haven’t been taken.

First, go try him. If you want to move forward, insist on a second opinion by a vet of your choice and current radiographs in a PPE. If the owner chooses not to release this information to you, I’d maybe do a PPE if you like him with your own vet with cervical radiographs. Send them to an expert if necessary.
See what a good vet on your end says. If the owner is difficult to deal with regarding this, consider that a sign that something significant might be brewing. It’s great that the rider is so forthcoming about this. What does she say? Remember, she works for the owner.

Good luck!! Wow, 17.3hh!!! What a giant!

[KayGee]

Personally, I would not. I just put down my 6 year old this summer because of cervical changes/issues. A friend of mine hooked me up with my new horse, and I absolutely xrayed the neck knowing I would run if anything was found. I just can’t. It was absolutely the worst for me in over 3 decades of horse ownership.

[outerbanks77]

@J-Lu

In addition to the excellent advice you’ve gotten, what is the nature of “questionable cervical x-rays as a youngster”? How good was the vet? How young was he at the time? What did the diagnosing vet say?

All of this. The understanding of cervical vertebra malformations, and diagnosis/radiographic methods and interpretation is a new and rapidly developing field. So assuming that the radiographs were 5 years ago or so, there may be a different or more nuanced interpretation available now. If I was super interested in the horse I’d be looking for the best available expert on this issue to get him checked out before proceeding.

[elleng0728]

Thank you all for your experience and advice. My trainer has advised me to pass on this horse. Going a different direction.

[mvp]

@J-Lu

In addition to the excellent advice you’ve gotten, what is the nature of “questionable cervical x-rays as a youngster”? How good was the vet? How young was he at the time? What did the diagnosing vet say? Will the owner release the x-rays to you/history that prompted the x-rays to you so you can get a quality second opinion? Are there subsequent x-rays and can you get some at a PPE?

I don’t think I know enough to really comment but if you really like this horse, it might be worth requesting the radiographs and appropriate medical history. And perform follow-up radiographs if they haven’t been taken.

First, go try him. If you want to move forward, insist on a second opinion by a vet of your choice and current radiographs in a PPE. If the owner chooses not to release this information to you, I’d maybe do a PPE if you like him with your own vet with cervical radiographs. Send them to an expert if necessary.
See what a good vet on your end says. If the owner is difficult to deal with regarding this, consider that a sign that something significant might be brewing. It’s great that the rider is so forthcoming about this. What does she say? Remember, she works for the owner.

Good luck!! Wow, 17.3hh!!! What a giant!

If the owner would not share all of these records, as well as be frank and detailed about how the problem was discovered and has been managed, I’d walk.

Look, they already know there’s something wrong. If the vet records belong to them (and don’t belong to a past potential buyer who did a PPE and declined, but didn’t give the owner the rads), they should share them. Perhaps this is just me wanting more transparency in horse trading than can exist, LOL.

Otherwise, I think I’d follow J-Lu’s advice: Go ride him and see if, all things being equal, he’s a horse you can ride and develop. See if you feel anything weird about how he goes and the connection from back end all the way to your hand.

If he passed muster, I think I’d find an expert vet with neck stuff and start my PPE there.

[CanteringCarrot]

@mvp

@J-Lu

In addition to the excellent advice you’ve gotten, what is the nature of “questionable cervical x-rays as a youngster”? How good was the vet? How young was he at the time? What did the diagnosing vet say? Will the owner release the x-rays to you/history that prompted the x-rays to you so you can get a quality second opinion? Are there subsequent x-rays and can you get some at a PPE?

I don’t think I know enough to really comment but if you really like this horse, it might be worth requesting the radiographs and appropriate medical history. And perform follow-up radiographs if they haven’t been taken.

First, go try him. If you want to move forward, insist on a second opinion by a vet of your choice and current radiographs in a PPE. If the owner chooses not to release this information to you, I’d maybe do a PPE if you like him with your own vet with cervical radiographs. Send them to an expert if necessary.
See what a good vet on your end says. If the owner is difficult to deal with regarding this, consider that a sign that something significant might be brewing. It’s great that the rider is so forthcoming about this. What does she say? Remember, she works for the owner.

Good luck!! Wow, 17.3hh!!! What a giant!

If the owner would not share all of these records, as well as be frank and detailed about how the problem was discovered and has been managed, I’d walk.

Look, they already know there’s something wrong. If the vet records belong to them (and don’t belong to a past potential buyer who did a PPE and declined, but didn’t give the owner the rads), they should share them. Perhaps this is just me wanting more transparency in horse trading than can exist, LOL.

Otherwise, I think I’d follow J-Lu’s advice: Go ride him and see if, all things being equal, he’s a horse you can ride and develop. See if you feel anything weird about how he goes and the connection from back end all the way to your hand.

If he passed muster, I think I’d find an expert vet with neck stuff and start my PPE there.

This is reasonable advice, but not every rider has the ability to feel abnormalities. I’m not saying this is the case with the OP, who has already decided to pass on the horse anyway. I even know some riders, training and competing at a mid to upper levels who cannot feel or see a lame horse/abnormalities unless it’s really head bobbing lame. Or on the first rides, some might not be able to distinguish a training issue from a health issue. In theory, if you’re shopping with a trainer they should have a good eye and feel for this, but I am continually surprised at how many just don’t.

I’ve not personally seen a case where a young horse with questionable neck x-rays has worked out on the long run. This is totally personal experience though. I’ve seen neck injuries just be devastating over and over. It’s why I x-ray the neck, personally.

If I was absolutely floored by the horse and head over heels, and everything was perfect, maybe I’d get some new images and find an expert. Maybe, likely not, but again, this is just me.

[enjoytheride]

I don’t see anywhere that indicates the seller is refusing to share x rays? It seems like the seller is being open about the horse’s history and that makes me feel a lot better about the seller, they weren’t obligated to say anything.

My vet says old X rays don’t matter much if the horse is in work fit and ready to do what you intend on it doing. It matters what current X rays show, if there is any progression. It sounds like this horse is working 4th and showing third, and that’s a pretty heavy work load. If there weren’t any changes in the x rays by this point then I imagine that the horse has already been discounted for the old x rays.

[the_sandiest_shoes]

FWIW, my horse had what my vet considered a possible neck thing in her X-rays and said not to buy her. I loved her so much when I tried her that I had two other vets look at the rads, and neither said a thing about the neck. 18 months I’ve had her now and zero issues / I think it was just one speculative opinion.

[J-Lu]

While a mute point now, it seems like the rider was sharing information, not the owner. I don’t think the OP approached the owner about sharing medical records if you read her posts. The “neck thing” was not medically described on this thread and I’m not sure if it was properly described by the rider.