Would you look at a horse with history of Lyme Disease?

[LuvRedHeads]

The title pretty much says it all! I have no experience with Lyme disease and am looking for people’s experiences. My vet is currently on maternity leave, so I am hesitant to reach out to her.

Horse was a solid lower level packer in a busy riding program. Supposedly a xcountry machine that would jump anything you pointed him at. He went out on lease where he contracted Lyme (Fall 2016). He was treated (I don’t know exact details) but continued to be lame/NQR through summer 2017. He sat through Spring 2018. Just getting back into work, going soundly. He does best when he is worked regularly, and is right now not fitting in the lesson program as he isn’t in regular work.

Is this horse worth going to look at? Or should I just walk away?

[Posting_Trot]

I’d go out to look at the horse, probably. I don’t know.

My previous horse had lyme twice: the first time it took a long time before she was properly diagnosed–not for lack of trying. Ultimately, I think that created some problems especially with arthritic changes as she got older. The second time she had lyme she was treated much more quickly because I knew what I was looking at.

So, I’d want to have a complete vet history–how long the horse was showing some kind of symptoms before being treated for lyme, with what drug the horse was treated and for how long, etc.

Bottom line: if the horse has only been back in work for a couple of months, I might pass. If he were already back into work for 6 months or more and staying sound, I’d be more willing to take the chance.

[bip]

Pretty much every horse in New England has a history of Lyme. I just bought a horse from VA in November and she had it by February. I treated my two previous horses at least twice each, including stays at the clinic for IV oxytet. So the Lyme itself would not be my sticking point. I will never buy a horse not in regular work again. Horses that are sound and have good temperaments are in work. Yes, there are valid exceptions to this rule, but the problem is that the pool of horses for sale has a higher than average number of horses with serious problems. It is too easy to hide the ones with problems among the ones whose owners really did get cancer or get in a bad car accident or got divorced.

[WNT]

I’ve known several horses that contracted Lyme here in Virginia. Some had it caught right away and reacted positively to IV antibiotics. I’ve also seen some that vets either didn’t “believe” it was Lyme, or it was overlooked for a longer period and became well established and appeared to resist treatment. In those cases it became a long term issue that led to career changes, retirement, and even euthanasia.

I would want a thorough treatment history, and the horse would have to have shown it was in consistent sound work after treatment for the better part of a year, including potentially stressful situations (traveling, overnight competitions, etc). I’ve seen Lyme break too many hearts to take it lightly.

[poltroon]

If he’s in a lesson program and not working out there, it sounds like he might be available for a lease when push comes to shove. If you like him, maybe that would be a good way to give it a go.

I agree with the others that the fact that the horse is not in regular work now is the biggest concern. Lyme or not, there are multiple reasons he might not come back 100%.

[Can_tFindMyWhip]

OP, what are you looking to use the horse for? The key with Lyme seems to be diagnosing it, and since it has been detected and treated, it would not deter me from looking at the horse. The horse may not have rehabbed well the first time because perhaps the managers of the lesson program aren’t equipped to do it. Rehab can be tricky and it isn’t for everyone. Maybe the horse needed more rest to recover before rehab.

What I am getting at is, it never hurts to look at the horse. And luckily the sellers are being forthcoming about his medical history and they should be easy people to work with.

[vagabondrider]

@bip

Pretty much every horse in New England has a history of Lyme.

Yup.

[vineyridge]

I’d have a new Lyme test pulled and evaluated before I committed to anything except a lease.

[IFG]

@poltroon

If he’s in a lesson program and not working out there, it sounds like he might be available for a lease when push comes to shove. If you like him, maybe that would be a good way to give it a go.

I agree with the others that the fact that the horse is not in regular work now is the biggest concern. Lyme or not, there are multiple reasons he might not come back 100%.

What a terrific idea. Treated my horse once for Lyme and was told nearly every horse in New England tests positive.

[frugalannie]

Everything said above is true. We live in a Lyme “hot spot” which is saying a lot in Massachusetts. Vets around here estimate that 90% of dogs are positive for Lyme, anaplasma or both. Same is probably true of horses. Speed of diagnosis (tends to be one of the first things thought of around here), response to treatment and re-evaluation if treatment seems ineffective are key.*

In these parts, Lyme can be “that thing” in the analogies test: true, true, unrelated. Just because a horse is lame and tests positive for Lyme doesn’t mean Lyme is the cause of the lameness, (as others have said far more elegantly).

I’d look at the horse and if I really felt he was a match for me I’d have him vetted well including a repeat Lyme titer. And then lease him!

• NB: the most common treatment for Lyme, Doxycycline, appears to have some anti-inflammatory properties as well as antibiotic and can therefore decrease the symptoms of a non-Lyme lameness sometimes.

[merrygoround]

A lot depends on the promptness of treatment, the state of his titre right now, and of course, whether or not he is sound, You need a PPE from an knowledgeable equine practitioner.If you do decide to try him .go for a vaccination. It doesn’t prevent anaplasmosis, but does seem to help with Lyme.

[vagabondrider]

@merrygoround

If you do decide to try him .go for a vaccination. It doesn’t prevent anaplasmosis, but does seem to help with Lyme.

NB: there is no Lyme vaccine approved for horses. Some people have used the dog Lyme vaccine off label on horses.

[LuvRedHeads]

Thanks all. I have decided to hold off on going to look at this horse for now. The location is a 2hr trip each way. If he was located at a farm nearby I would go at least look at him and try him out.

He would be available to lease, if I want to go that route. I’ve just had some terrible luck with soundness issues over the past 2 years, and I’m not sure I want to go into something with a horse that already has a history of some soundness concerns.

[merrygoround]

@vagabondrider

NB: there is no Lyme vaccine approved for horses. Some people have used the dog Lyme vaccine off label on horses.

An accurate statement.

However, the vaccine is recommended by Cornell University. Cornell has done a lot of definitive work with Lyme disease.

[bip]

@merrygoround

An accurate statement.

However, the vaccine is recommended by Cornell University. Cornell has done a lot of definitive work with Lyme disease.

I should probably ask my vet this, but would you happen to know if they can get the vaccination if they’ve had Lyme? And how long after recovering from Lyme do you have to wait?

[frugalannie]

FWIW, in my experience the horse has to have decreased (and perhaps shifted) titers to qualify for vaccine. Or it has to be treated with a full course of IV oxytet prior to the vaccination protocol (two maybe three serial vaccines and then one every year, IIRC).

By shifted titers I mean from the acute infection Osp to the chronic Osp all of which are identified by letters which escape me at the moment.

This might qualify as the least helpful post ever!

[gottagrey]

@frugalannie

FWIW, in my experience the horse has to have decreased (and perhaps shifted) titers to qualify for vaccine. Or it has to be treated with a full course of IV oxytet prior to the vaccination protocol (two maybe three serial vaccines and then one every year, IIRC).

By shifted titers I mean from the acute infection Osp to the chronic Osp all of which are identified by letters which escape me at the moment.

This might qualify as the least helpful post ever!

A barnmate just went through this with a horse she looked at, based on the results of the titers and acute vs. chronic she based her purchase decision. He wasn’t chronic, seller needed to sell, so dropped the price, and buyer got a really nice horse with plenty of her budget left over to get a new saddle

[tbchick84]

First, thanks for calling is Lyme correctly. If I see Lyme’s one more time, I’m going to lose it. As others have said. Lyme in New England is like hitting a deer in PA. You either have you will. Every horse I know of has had some form of it. Mine gets the Anaplasmosis (?) type that comes complete with nice 105 fever and legs the size of tree stumps. Both times he was back to his old self within 3 days of Doxy. We did the full 30 days both times. Thanks to Equispot, he hasn’t gotten it in years. He does get some flareups from time to time when it gets really hot. He just gets a big sluggish and we just do less for a few days and he’s fine.

I can’t speak for the horses who get the straight garden variety Lyme, but with the anaplasmosis type, I would not worry at all in terms of purchasing a horse who’s had it.

[frugalannie]

Good call on the Lyme vs Lyme’s disease tbchick84. Helps if you know the first outbreak was found in residents of Lyme CT, hence the name. But…

Got to put on my pedantic hat about anaplasmosis (previously called erlicchia). It is a different disease from Lyme often distinguished prior to testing by the high fever associated with it… There have been multiple pathogens identified that are transmitted by tick bites. And increasingly ticks are being found that are carrying more than one pathogen and can therefore transmit two infections at once. Such joy!

For your reference, the following are known to be carried by deer ticks. The good news is that most are treatable with the same antibiotics as Lyme. Ready? Anaplasma, Babesia, Borrelia burgdorferi (classic Lyme), B mayonii and B miyamotoi (cause illness very similar to Lyme). The skunk in the party is the virus that causes the very rare Powassan which is untreatable. I think they’ve only identified 100 cases or so over the past 10 years. Dog ticks carry Rocky Mountain Spotted fever and Tularemia. The Lone Star tick bite can cause intolerance of red meat proteins. So ticks as a group aren’t good neighbors.

[LilyandBaron]

My horse was diagnosed with acute Lyme 2 years ago, treated with Doxy and multiple Cornell tests later show no Lyme. But he’s had consistent issues since, had similar issues before. I’ve done all I’m willing to do for my now 17 year old rescue horse. He’s in great weight and condition, happily living life at home, but there’s something off and he gets girthy, spooky, touchy, or sluggish or whatever. After a year and a half of lots of time and money and false hope, I retired him after a bad bolt that was, IMO, due to a physical, mystery ailment. Based on my only experience, I wouldn’t buy a horse with a recent diagnosis. I’d want to know how horse behaved/recovered at least a year post-treatment… Reading human forums on Lyme, the continued issues after treatment seems common.