Hi everyone,
I’m wondering how many of you would seek consultation/clinics/regular appointments with a psychologist to address riding related anxiety and performance issues?
I would address my issues with my riding, but I could see there being a huge market for this.
I’ve consulted with two sports psychologists. Both have vast experience specifically in sports psychology and riding psychology, and I have paid cash, although not at the rate you are discussing. Both were fantastic. I would not pay that rate unless I could submit to insurance, and I would likely choose someone with lengthy particular experience regardless.
There definitely is a need, but I might consider a different financial model if I were you, or offer to bill insurance.
Much of that specific industry is word of mouth.
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Right Horse, can I ask in what ballpark was the session fee?
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Sure. BTW, I’m also a provider and I get it. But our support staff do bill, so if you choose this model, which is more palatable for patients, it’s the cost of doing business. None of us wants to deal with it, which is why billers, coders, and office staff have jobs :-).
I paid for more of an intro session that was nowhere near what you quoted, then when I liked it and found it useful and clicked with the psychologist or therapist, a “retainer” that includes sessions and allowed me calls and emails. For those of us with riding anxiety, it can be completely fine for a while and then rear its ugly head. Same with sports psychology in terms of competing. It might be a 10 minute phone consult the morning of the show, or after a particularly nerve-racking experience. Then the scheduled sessions are more like maintenance. When the initial work is done, I find that it’s more helpful to have the sporadic engagement when necessary rather than scheduled sessions if everything is fine…ESPECIALLY if cash pay.
I was able to frontload a session or two, and then I didn’t need anything for quite a while and I was able to schedule the next session when I felt I needed it.
You also have to think about your demographic. If you’re looking for local people, depending on the area you live in, you might not have a great number of clients.
However, if you’re in a saturated area and can get the word out, you might find great success with multiple disciplines.
I think the model for most is the phone or Skype consult. That makes it trickier to do EMDR or other modalities; not sure what your focus is. But those are very helpful in sports psychology, along with guided imagery.
To be honest, once I worked with the sports psychologist, I did a few sessions with a hypnotherapist which really took it to the next level. If you practice EMDR and are certified in hypnotherapy, I think that would be a great combination.
Doing clinics would be helpful, I think, to build business. I’m in a very horse saturated area with many competitors. We have many, many clinicians (riding) come in, and perhaps doing a lunchtime demonstration at one of those clinics would be something you could do.
Good luck!
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I would probably not ever spend the $$ on a private session, but a group session or “mental preparation” clinic would be something that I would be interested in. Many people have run of the mill show nerves, or make run of the mill nervous mistakes like freezing up or not following the plan discussed with the coach. I don’t know that you could charge enough or do it frequently enough for it to be a big moneymaker–but it might be something you could combine with trips to shows (i.e. do a clinic or group session before or after a show) to make some extra $$.
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There are quite a few riders, especially competition riders, who use sports psychologists at one time or another. Those that I know personally have found it to be a great help. We have a well-known Sports Psychologist in our area that works with quite a few of the major barns and offers group clinics and private Skype sessions. April has a long history in the show jumping community as a competitor, which really helps in understanding the fears and anxieties that can arise during riding horses and competing. This is her website. ridingoutofyourmind.com
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I used a sports psychologist when I was a competitive gymnast and I still utilize what I learnt in my riding! But, I would definitely want to be able to submit to insurance! Can you at least, set it up like some dentists do and have your clients submit instead of you? Honestly, the fact you “don’t want” to even do forms for patients to submit would have me go somewhere else!
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Yes but your price point is way too high, sorry.
There is a plethora of riding specific coaching already on the market .
Many books and therapists already in the industry and many non riding providers who take insurance can guide the rider to skills that translate.
Being a rider yourself is an advantage, but not quite as much as you think. In the end its still the same core concepts sport to sport .
I’ve paid 80-100 for a session but that is not something I prefer to pay for regularly.
Horse people are already paying a ton for services around this sport. Sorry.
Also a horse business grows by word of mouth. Advertizing does not seem to work.
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Definitely a market for it! I worked with a sports psychologist about 10 years ago, and it was so helpful. I don’t know the cost of it, as I was a teen and my mom paid for it. Teens who are competing at a high level are a group who definitely need it.
I think it is an important component in riding, perhaps even more so than most other sports. But I agree with others who said the pricing is too high. I worked with an incredible psychologist and life coach several years ago and she based her rates on clients ability to pay. I was in the highest bracket and paid $90 per session. I think $100 is more in line with what people will consider rather than $200-250. People will spend tons of money on their horses, but usually not the equivalent on themselves in my experience and opinion. Good luck!
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I’ve organized and seen 3 different sports psychologists specifically for riding anxiety, and arranged clinics for our barn. For me, only one of them resonated with me, some of the other feedback (from adults / teenagers) is they liked maybe once or twice, but unless the psychologist is there at the events that feed your anxiety (usually shows) its hard to duplicate the fear, as well as its hard to put together too generic of plans / thoughts.
The usual way we would organize this would be a clinic / group setting where they would talk about generic topics that might hit on many or everyone in the clinic. And that usually was about $100 for a two day clinic (1.5 hrs each day) and then there was an option for individual care (which I also took part of) and the highest we paid was $60 per session. (And there was the option of a receipt that we could submit for insurance coverage)
If I had to pay those kind of rates - they would have to be covered by insurance. And unless it was completely deliberating I likely wouldn’t take on that kind of care for something that is already an expensive hobby.
I do know there are a few out there, that work with people via skype, emails, video links to help them. But again the costs are less - but you may be able to have a larger number of clients with this more hands off approach - and with a more vast audience.
Good luck
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Thanks all!
The views on pricing are enlightening because in my city, what I quoted are what private pay Ph.D.'s cost and I have a colleague who does sports psych with teenagers who charges around the same too. In fact, the only time I’ve seen self-pay fees as low as say, $60 per session was when I was in training and working not yet licensed at my university clinic (that was around the top of the cash sliding scale we had). About 10 years ago, I saw a psychologist who was a specialist in biofeedback and he charged $200 a session and didn’t take insurance. But, like anything else, if people won’t pay for it, then the idea won’t get off the ground! The difference in perception of price likely has to do with elective services vs. more necessary care for those who can afford it. In fact, my sister is also a therapist and her practice charges $200/session as self-pay and some of her adolescent patients see her 3 times a week!! (She’s also in a affluent area).
Oh and even if a licensed provider doesn’t take insurance, they can always provide a receipt for patients to submit to their insurance if there is an out of network option. That’s easy, but does depend on the person having that option in their policy.
The great thing about pricing is you can charge whatever you would like, and the market will tell you pretty quickly whether your rates are reasonable or not.
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I think I am on the other side of the fence, but mostly about the insurance. You mean that the premium I pay for insurance should go toward people getting over riding nerves? Sorry, but I had preventive medical care, injury and catastrophic illness more in mind for what I like to think my insurance is all about. And I fully believe that should be used for bona fide mental health issues. I don’t think jitters, regarding what is mostly a recreational activity, is a mental health issue for which the collective premium should be allocated. If you have enough money to be riding competitively, you probably have enough money to seek counseling to make sure that you don’t have trouble with an oxer or a water jump. I don’t want to be paying for that, indirectly, through my premiums. Insurance costs enough already.
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I don’t necessarily think the rates you quoted are too high for a full time sports psychologist. I do think they are too high for a psychologist who has a part time side line of occasional sports psychologist clients.
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After spending an entire season melting down, and continuously going home and “doing more homework” (the homework was foot perfect and we could jump perfectly well around much larger courses at home. And I wasn’t showing at a new level), I started seeing a psychologist that specializes in riders. He was one of the very best investments I have EVER made in myself and my riding. People often say “oh, it’s just show nerves. You just need to go out more” or “you obviously have a hole in your training. Go do more homework.” A lot of the time, that IS the issue, but, as I found out, my issues were coming from much more deeply rooted issues that were taking a toll not only on my competitive goals but also my personal life. Through a winter of talk therapy, meditation instruction, and hypnosis (pretty much the coolest thing ever), I came out the following season cool as a cucumber and had some of the best rounds of my life (I DID do a lot of homework, too, but the brain game was on point to go along with it). I also credit the more general talk therapy he and I did kinda once the anxiety was wrestled into submission with helping me through a really bad injury and subsequent world upheaval. I’m pretty sure had it not been for the time I spent with him, I would have probably been institutionalized, and I don’t say that flippantly.
His rate was $150 (I think) an hour, no initial consultation fee. He also does groups and occasional seminars. I know for a fact that he will also come and work with you and your horse, but that wasn’t anything I needed. I have done some of his groups and seminars and they are very informative and probably great for people who just need some help wrangling their run of the mill show anxiety. But, I am a big believer in talk therapy in general, and specifically for riders who are really struggling and can’t quite figure out why.
And lots of BNRs DO use them! Pippa Funnell, a very accomplished British event rider, took advantage of the sports psychology program that the UK Olympic program offers, and credits it to the huge turn around in her career. She suffered terribly from anxiety at the biggest competitions, and it really helped her control it and learn how to manage it.
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Especially for riding anxiety, I’ve coordinated and seen 3
different sports psychologists, and arranged clinics for our barn.
For me, only one of them resonated with me, maybe once or twice they liked some of the other input (from adults/teenagers) but unless the counselor is present at the activities that feed the anxiety (usually shows) it is difficult to replicate the apprehension as well as it is difficult to bring together too generic plans/thoughts.
A clinic/community environment would be the normal way we would organize this, where
they would talk about general subjects that could reach many or everyone in the clinic.
And it was typically around $100 for a two-day clinic (1.5 hours per day) and then there was
an individual care option (which I was also part of) and $60 per session was the highest we paid.
(And there was the possibility of a
receipt for insurance coverage that we might submit)
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹They would have to be covered by insurance
if I were to pay those kinds of rates.
And I certainly wouldn’t take on that kind of care for
something that is already a costly hobby unless it was fully deliberative.
I do know that there are a few out there who work with people to support them through skype, emails, video links.
But the prices are smaller again-but with this more hands-off approach, you will be able to have a greater number of customers-and with a larger audience.
If you are a regular poster here, then you know that COTH does not allow advertising. This entire thread and your alter were built to do that. Please remove it.
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I don’t see it as advertising- there is no way to identify who it is? It is someone with no identifiable information asking a “business question” about viability/sustainability.
To answer the post- I think it can be a useful service, not a full time gig unless you are directly affiliate with a show, large barn, have your name out there.
As someone who can afford your price point- no- I don’t go to people who make me bill to my insurance. I think that is a huge deficit in your logic.
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