I am getting estimates for fencing. One one side, I will have a dog in one section and goats and chickens in another. These sections are side by side, and the back fence also borders a paddock that will occasionally have horses in it. I am doing a woven wire mesh with a top rail to keep the little animals in. On the horse side, I am going to put a strand of electric on insulators on the inside of the fence to keep them off it. Do I need no climb? My horses are used to the electric and respect it.
I think you are talking about weak woven wire mesh for the small animals, sufficient to contain them but not sufficient to confine horses, and asking if adding a line of electric on the horse side of a shared fence line will be sufficient to safely contain the horses?
I would worry that a horse could paw or kick through the small animal fence, reaching it below the hot wire, and do damage to the fence and possibly the horse (caught shoe, hole in fence, cut on horse, etc.). Horse safe fencing such as non-climb would be a safer option for the shared fence line. Safe for horses and will still contain the smaller animals.
Rule of thumb for a shared fence line: use the fence type necessary to contain the strongest/largest animals that will come in contact with that fence.
Repeat a hundred times what Badger said. We have one shared fence line with
pipe top rail and non-climb beneath. The strictly dog areas are chain link or
small rectangles mesh but not horse strength. And if the electric goes off for
any reason, the non-climb is sturdy enough to contain them.
We have 6’ chain link on two sides of the yard and horses across it.
Chain link comes in different gauges, ours is a strong one, not the flimsy one used in some dog pens or yards.
Whatever wire you get, be sure it is adequate to keep what you need to keep in or out.
We also have feral hogs and any but the heavier, stronger chain link gauge will not stop them, they tear thru even hog wire, almost made a hole in our chain link in one spot, trying to get in the yard.
The only trouble with any kind of wire and larger/stronger animals is that they may not get thru, but if they mess with it, say a horse rubbing on it or feral hogs rooting on it, they will bend it out of shape.
For horses, the best, safest and less apt to be damaged by any they may do to it is V-mesh type wires, but the heavier gauge no-climb made for horses will also work, although it will bend and stretch more than V-mesh does.
Hot wires will keep anything from messing with any fences, good idea to have that extra protection on any fence.
I am not using cheap small animal mesh. My question is - does it have to be NO CLIMB, which is designed to keep horses from walking up the fence and scrambling out, or can it be non-no climb?
[QUOTE=Flash44;8244831]
I am not using cheap small animal mesh. My question is - does it have to be NO CLIMB, which is designed to keep horses from walking up the fence and scrambling out, or can it be non-no climb?[/QUOTE]
I don’t know what kind you are calling non-no climb?
The reason no-climb is recommended for horses is because it would be very hard for a horse pawing or kicking at 2" x 4" woven wire of the right gauge, or V-mesh, should not get a hoof thru that size holes and get hung on the wire and cause a wreck.
Wire mesh with larger holes a horse could kick thru and get hung up on is considered less safe.
A picture or link to which kind of wire mesh you are considering would help to see if it seems safe.
Be aware that the v mesh a dog can get its paw caught if it jumps up and the paw slips through the wide part and then slides down into the narrow part as dog lands.
[QUOTE=BigPaintHorse;8244978]
Be aware that the v mesh a dog can get its paw caught if it jumps up and the paw slips through the wide part and then slides down into the narrow part as dog lands.[/QUOTE]
Never heard of that, but it does make sense that could happen.
Do you need no climb? No. But it sure is preferable…
I have “regular” woven wire fencing- I think the squares are 4"x4", maybe a little bigger. It was here when I moved in. I have 2 strands of electric wire on 5" extended insulators to keep the horses off of it. I’ve had no issues (knocking on wood furiously), although I have seen my suicidal mare back her butt up until she is a hair from the hot wire and kick at the fence… Why??? :concern: So in the future, I’d really prefer no climb even with the electric.
[QUOTE=BigPaintHorse;8244978]
Be aware that the v mesh a dog can get its paw caught if it jumps up and the paw slips through the wide part and then slides down into the narrow part as dog lands.[/QUOTE]
Thanks! Never thought of that either.
[QUOTE=Texarkana;8245006]
Do you need no climb? No. But it sure is preferable…
I have “regular” woven wire fencing- I think the squares are 4"x4", maybe a little bigger. It was here when I moved in. I have 2 strands of electric wire on 5" extended insulators to keep the horses off of it. I’ve had no issues (knocking on wood furiously), although I have seen my suicidal mare back her butt up until she is a hair from the hot wire and kick at the fence… Why??? :concern: So in the future, I’d really prefer no climb even with the electric.[/QUOTE]
OK, but why is it preferable? If I am getting a heavy gauge quality mesh, but it’s not specifically No Climb, then what are the issues that make is less preferable? Or, what specifically makes a fence qualified as “no climb?”
The electric should keep them from rubbing on the fence or leaning over it. I will be using a top rail. But I guess they can still kick at it, or slip and have a leg go underneath it.
[QUOTE=Flash44;8245041]
OK, but why is it preferable? If I am getting a heavy gauge quality mesh, but it’s not specifically No Climb, then what are the issues that make is less preferable? Or, what specifically makes a fence qualified as “no climb?”
The electric should keep them from rubbing on the fence or leaning over it. I will be using a top rail. But I guess they can still kick at it, or slip and have a leg go underneath it.[/QUOTE]
It is preferable because the small weave makes it less likely a horse will put a hoof or leg through it. It’s not the “no climb” feature per se that makes it safer, it is safer because the openings are too small to easily fit a hoof.
“Woven wire mesh” describes a whole broad category of fencing, from chicken wire to cattle field fencing to horse fencing, so without more specific details from the OP we can’t know exactly what fence is being considered.
To be safe for horses, woven wire mesh needs to be a certain gage, height, and mesh size. The two types that are generally considered safe for horses are the “2x4 No-Climb” and the “Diamond Mesh” as these fences have strong enough wire and small enough openings that they greatly reduce the risk of injury to horses compared to other wire fences. Woven is preferred to welded because welds can rust and break open leaving sharp edges. Horses can get badly injured kicking through wire mesh that is not strong enough to contain them, and deglove a leg, sever tendons and ligaments, and do other damage.
“Can” you put horses out with other wire fences? Yes. Some horse owners do. But the risk of injury in increased. There is no “perfect” fence as all types (electric tape, wire, wood, and pvc) all have weaknesses and horses can and do get hurt even in padded rooms. But the non-climb and diamond mesh horse fences both have excellent reputations and should serve your purposes very well.
Here are two websites from companies that make wire mesh fencing for a variety of animals. Reading the differences between the different fences should answer some of your questions:
[QUOTE=Flash44;8244831]
I am not using cheap small animal mesh. My question is - does it have to be NO CLIMB, which is designed to keep horses from walking up the fence and scrambling out, or can it be non-no climb?[/QUOTE]
If you are fencing in/out goat and chickens, then “no-climb” or any WOVEN wire 2x4 mesh fence, like Red Brand from TSC, is what you want. NOT welded wire.
Even small animals like goats can push against welded wire, bust the welds, bend the wire and escape. Goats will put their heads through 4x4 openings, and get their heads stuck. Chickens will also slip through 4x4 openings. But neither goats nor mature chickens can escape 2x4 openings.
Thank you, Badger.
Yes. You also want to avoid “field fence” or woven mesh that is smaller at the bottom with bigger holes at the top. My farm is fenced partly with this because it came that way and I’m replacing it as soon as I can afford to. I was planning it this summer but I have to do the roof on the house unexpectedly, but I’ve had several injuries attributable to the fence that probably could have been prevented if I’d had no climb. It’s awful stuff and I hate it. I do have electric on the top but that hasn’t mattered. What has helped is that I ran a strip of horseguard fencing them away from contact over the field fence but still, the fence is terrible and is on its way out when possible.
A friend had a horse that is very respectful of the fence roll near the fence. He rolled all the over and stuck his legs through the 4x4 wire fence. She got lucky and he didn’t panic but it could have been really bad.
Another friend had waited until the July 4th fireworks stopped for an hour. The next day was a work day for most people. She turned the horses out. Neighbor 2 door down set off a random big one. One horse blindly bolted into the fence and got tangled in the 4x4. Thankfully friend was there to sit on her head while her DH ran for wire cutters.
In the first situation a horse can put a hoof through the welded wire. While welded wire seems fine at first, give it a few years and those welds get brittle. You can’t really pull welded wire as tight as no-climb horse fence so it tends to sag over time.
You need to plan you fence for the what ifs. Also just because your current horses respect electric doesn’t mean your next one will. What about a power outage? Some horses are quick to figure out when the fence is off on nnot as juiced as normal.
Thanks all!!
