Wow. Burghley.

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8305022]
Tiana’s horse is five and already running a prelim equivalent, per the Chronicle article. That’s too darned young, IMO. If prelim is the equivalent of a 1*, the FEI has set six as the minimum horse age for 1competition. BE has set up a system where the 5yo YH Championship are the equivalent of Open Novice with BE100 dimensions. 6yo have a 1 level track in the BE YH Championships.

I am aghasted.[/QUOTE]

I agree. And most of these horses are warmbloods that do not finish growing until 7 or even 8 years old (My 6 year old has grown a 1/2 inch in the past 2 months).

Whatever is the motive? Even if the compete lightly, we all know that it is not the actual competition that takes the toll, but also the training and conditioning.

That being said, their footing over there is more forgiving, so perhaps that helps.

I cannot imagine my 5 year old very keen mare going prelim this year. She still has a baby face, for cripes sake.

Muffin, I am going next year. I always say that and then I don’t but this time I swear I am going to get there

[Equibrit]

Tiana GB results;
http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/events/results.aspx?riderid=106301

GB National Levels;

BE80(T) : max fence height 0.80m
BE90: maximum fence height 0.90 m
BE100 : max fence height 1.00 m
Novice : max fence height 1.10 m XC, 1.15 m SJ
Intermediate Novice: max fence height 1.10 XC; 1.20 m SJ
Intermediate: max fence height 1.15 m XC; 1.25 m SJ
Advanced Intermediate: max fence height 1.15 m XC; 1.30 SJ
Advanced: max fence height 1.20 m XC; 1.30 m SJ

[SlamDunk]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8305354]
I agree. And most of these horses are warmbloods that do not finish growing until 7 or even 8 years old (My 6 year old has grown a 1/2 inch in the past 2 months).

Whatever is the motive? Even if the compete lightly, we all know that it is not the actual competition that takes the toll, but also the training and conditioning.

That being said, their footing over there is more forgiving, so perhaps that helps.

I cannot imagine my 5 year old very keen mare going prelim this year. She still has a baby face, for cripes sake.

Muffin, I am going next year. I always say that and then I don’t but this time I swear I am going to get there[/QUOTE]

It’s one of those things I chalk up to works in Europe, doesn’t work in North America. I’ve seen it more from the jumper side, but for example the 5 year old show jumpers show 1.20m and Lanaken (finals) probably goes to 1.25m. I’ve worked over there and pretty much every 5 year old did the 5 year old classes. But over here, there certainly aren’t a lot of 5 year olds showing 1.20m We both end up with the finished product of 8-9 year olds jumping around 1.40-1.50m. But due to differences in how we start horses and course design etc we get their a different way. I’d imagine it’s a bit the same with Eventing. They don’t really have the same amateur rider culture (I mean they have amateurs but they are usually all competing in YH classes) and have way more of a young horse culture.

[skydy]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8305168]
I was disappointed to see Laine smack Al so often, without contrasting with any praise. I love to see riders who praise their horses[/QUOTE]

I too noticed the use of the whip during that ride. I thought perhaps it was a result of the rider’s inexperience in riding at this level/type of course, and am hoping that the oddly timed whip was a result of over-excitement/inexperience and not a symptom of a less than stellar attitude towards the horse.

I hope, upon reflection and perhaps a good study of the riding by those who’s rounds proved to be more effective, that the rider will re-consider her timing when using the whip.

Thanks to Burghley for the great videos!

[goodmorning]

From watching the young horses (5yo’s) they appear quite green still but game & scopey. Spooky, rails falling, trotting changes here & there, ‘green horses distances’ , some bucks, missed leads, lots of whinnying :lol: Maybe one or two that looked overly schooled but not many. There were ~5 very friendly roll top type XC fences & a solid SJ course just prior. Then tack removed & jogged for additional scores. Top 10 back into the ring for an Equitation style flat class…followed by taking turns at the gallop That was my personal favorite - they really galloped around that ring & Tianas horse had a beautiful gallop.

I think it’s like comparing apples to oranges with our YEH program. I’d be more apt to participate in the UKs version as the horses are permitted to be young horses & didn’t appear as broke on the flat as ours are. Much more posting trot, as it should be. Horses ridden on the flat much more forward with bobbles but a different type of ‘young horse’ was rewarded. The gallop is the deciding factor - we don’t even have that.

Fun class to watch!

[skydy]

goodmorning, that does sound like a fun class to watch.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Actually we DO have that here in the YEH. Ours is VERY similar in my opinion and I have been to both (and competed in the US). The finals held at Fairhill and the Bughley finals. One of my horses got a 10 on his gallop at the finals here. I watched all of it at Burghley and the horses looked exactly the same as here. Some further in their training and others not. (Mine had only gone to a handlful of events as a 5 year old while others had gone Prelim). I also spoke to others at Burghley who competed in it extensively and at least from the conversations it sounds VERY similar with inconsistent judging and all. Our YEH is based on theirs and they ARE comparing apples to apples. They just have more of it And many top riders have a few geared toward it. But what most aim for is Le Lion.

but the qualifiers are extremely similar as were the type of questions but it is MUch more supported in the UK with a large crowd. Whereas when you go to the finals at Fairlhill hardly any spectators are there other than owners.

[Napoles]

[QUOTE=Thoroughbred in Color;8304352]
Just watched Mark Todd’s xc round. What a thing of beauty. There were a couple moments where Leonidas II was a little look-y, but he clearly trusts Mark. They made the whole course look easy![/QUOTE]
Seriously? Did you see the same round as me??
Even Toddy was rueful afterwards saying that the horse kept hanging to the left causing him to have a few scary moments. He had a few really dodgy jumps where only someone of his calibre and a horse with the scope of Leonidas could have got away unscathed.

[shea_smom]

Colleen warms my heart. She praised that horse all the way around. When the going gets tough, he is going to try his heart out for her. I don’t understand why most riders do not do that. Lynn’s horse got two feeble pats on finishing.

[Auburn]

After the first refusal, I saw Laine go to the whip before and after the boat jump.

For the 2 smacks after the boat, was she trying to get her horse in front of her leg?

It was good to see all of our riders finish on a number. :yes: Congratulations to Lynn S. for finishing in the top 20! Well, done!

[Equibrit]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8305584]

but the qualifiers are extremely similar as were the type of questions but it is MUch more supported in the UK with a large crowd. Whereas when you go to the finals at Fairlhill hardly any spectators are there other than owners.[/QUOTE]

There is a whole section/culture of the horse industry in the UK/Europe devoted to starting young horses, populated by professionals who’s sole purpose is developing youngsters. Those horses are then further educated by the likes of WFP, Tiana Coudray, and any other eventer you care to mention. As we all know, a horse’s life is a result of his early training and these producers are well respected for their skill.

This seems to be missing in the US.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;8305628]
There is a whole section/culture of the horse industry in the UK/Europe devoted to starting young horses, populated by professionals who’s sole purpose is developing youngsters. Those horses are then further educated by the likes of WFP, Tiana Coudray, and any other eventer you care to mention. As we all know, a horse’s life is a result of his early training and these producers are well respected for their skill.

This seems to be missing in the US.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Very much so. We have the horse flesh here…

[subk]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;8305628]
There is a whole section/culture of the horse industry in the UK/Europe devoted to starting young horses, populated by professionals who’s sole purpose is developing youngsters. Those horses are then further educated by the likes of WFP, Tiana Coudray, and any other eventer you care to mention. As we all know, a horse’s life is a result of his early training and these producers are well respected for their skill.

This seems to be missing in the US.[/QUOTE]
Another “yes” to this. If you noticed in the COTH article there is mention of who started Tiana’s horse.

I agree with bfne that we have the horseflesh, but not enough people starting them that know what they are doing. Just this morning I saw a sale video of a very green, lovely, scopey, WB 5 years old jumping in draw reins and the horse was obviously being pulled and held in a frame on the flat. My first thought was to wonder if they’ve ruined him yet or if he’s salvagable. sigh

[Equibrit]

Maybe that’s why a US 5 year old doesn’t do (GB) Novice/Prelim.

You guys are always bemoaning the fact that the US doesn’t seem to be able to compete. This is one reason why.

[yourcolorfuladdictio]

[QUOTE=skydy;8305515]
I too noticed the use of the whip during that ride. I thought perhaps it was a result of the rider’s inexperience in riding at this level/type of course, and am hoping that the oddly timed whip was a result of over-excitement/inexperience and not a symptom of a less than stellar attitude towards the horse.

I hope, upon reflection and perhaps a good study of the riding by those who’s rounds proved to be more effective, that the rider will re-consider her timing when using the whip.

Thanks to Burghley for the great videos![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Auburn;8305624]After the first refusal, I saw Laine go to the whip before and after the boat jump.

For the 2 smacks after the boat, was she trying to get her horse in front of her leg?

It was good to see all of our riders finish on a number. :yes: Congratulations to Lynn S. for finishing in the top 20! Well, done![/QUOTE]

Not every horse is built with unlimited scope; if Al is unresponsive to her leg for any reason (distracted by the sea of people, flustered by any number of things), he isn’t scopey enough to get them both out of trouble in a pinch (hence the tendency to refuse when the distance isn’t right). If she feels like her horse isn’t responding as expected or as necessary to her leg, it’s her job to bring him back to focus (or assess that he is too tired and retire, Al was not tired). If she doesn’t keep her horse focused, the results could be catastrophic.

This horse is being ridden more towards his upper limit; he is very fit and intelligent and being piloted around by a skilled rider that needs 4* EXPERIENCE. Lainey is out to complete the event to gain international 4* experience, she’s not out to beat Michael Jung. Besides, the only way to get better is to gain experience and have a good coach (and she seems to be checking both of those boxes). Her goals are going to be much different than Colleen’s or Lynn’s. She shouldn’t be bashed because she didn’t produce a clean result or because she had to work to keep Al’s attention (she wasn’t wolluping him, it wasn’t done in a manner that was excessive or intended to cause harm).

And as many of you haven’t and never will run around a 4*, it’s not your place to judge. So unless you have completed a Burghley 4*, keep the Monday morning QB’ing to yourself. It’s super inappropriate.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;8305891]
Maybe that’s why a US 5 year old doesn’t do (GB) Novice/Prelim.

You guys are always bemoaning the fact that the US doesn’t seem to be able to compete. This is one reason why.[/QUOTE]

There are MANY horses here in the states which run a few Prelims as 5 year olds. It is VERY common.

But whether one should depends greatly on the horse and the rider. I have one with Pro riders. She is a sales horse. She has done a handful of events and did run one prelim this year as a 5 year old. She will run a couple more trainings and maybe another Prelim but since she is only 5 she isn’t being campaigned hard. She will easily be ready for a 1* next year as a six year old.

[Thoroughbred_in_Colo]

[QUOTE=Napoles;8305606]
Seriously? Did you see the same round as me??
Even Toddy was rueful afterwards saying that the horse kept hanging to the left causing him to have a few scary moments. He had a few really dodgy jumps where only someone of his calibre and a horse with the scope of Leonidas could have got away unscathed.[/QUOTE]

*What I saw was a rider who picked the best route for his horse, anticipated problems, reacted well when problems did occur, and generally rode with a great deal of tact. At the end of XC Leo still looked like he had a lot of energy left (unlike quite a few others, even if you leave Movistar out).

Was it a perfect round? No. But I thought that they worked better together than many of the other rides I watched. I will admit that I did not watch every ride, because I just don’t have that kind of time. You mention that they had a few dodgy jumps, which I don’t dispute, but they were certainly not the only pair that did.

*Disclaimer: I am not an eventer, nor do I desire to be, but I do enjoy watching the sport and have a great deal of admiration for the effort it takes to ride at that level.

[skydy]

@Auburn;8305624

After the first refusal, I saw Laine go to the whip before and after the boat jump.

For the 2 smacks after the boat, was she trying to get her horse in front of her leg?

She went to the whip after 2 other jumps as well.
Of course I did not ride the horse and my comments are just an observation from the peanut gallery…

I couldn’t help but notice that the other U.S. riders seemed more sympathetic in their riding. It looked as if they gave their horses confidence and I didn’t get that impression with L.A. I don’t know the horse, he is lovely and seemed to be quite willing but lacking in confidence.

Though she doesn’t seem to have the experience that many of the other riders have, nothing can take away the fact that she completed the course which is quite an achievement!

Burghley TV is wonderful. Every ride in its entirety and some great slow motion shots. :yes:

[subk]

[QUOTE=yourcolorfuladdiction;8305934]
Not every horse is built with unlimited scope; if Al is unresponsive to her leg for any reason (distracted by the sea of people, flustered by any number of things), he isn’t scopey enough to get them both out of trouble in a pinch (hence the tendency to refuse when the distance isn’t right). If she feels like her horse isn’t responding as expected or as necessary to her leg, it’s her job to bring him back to focus (or assess that he is too tired and retire, Al was not tired). If she doesn’t keep her horse focused, the results could be catastrophic.

This horse is being ridden more towards his upper limit; he is very fit and intelligent and being piloted around by a skilled rider that needs 4* EXPERIENCE. Lainey is out to complete the event to gain international 4* experience, she’s not out to beat Michael Jung. Besides, the only way to get better is to gain experience and have a good coach (and she seems to be checking both of those boxes). Her goals are going to be much different than Colleen’s or Lynn’s. She shouldn’t be bashed because she didn’t produce a clean result or because she had to work to keep Al’s attention (she wasn’t wolluping him, it wasn’t done in a manner that was excessive or intended to cause harm).

And as many of you haven’t and never will run around a 4*, it’s not your place to judge. So unless you have completed a Burghley 4*, keep the Monday morning QB’ing to yourself. It’s super inappropriate.[/QUOTE]

I agree with everything, but the last paragraph which I find obnoxious and insulting. There are plenty of us on here that have enough UL experience to have interesting, valid persectives. People here are generally open to being educated, but educating them and then telling them they are idiots and to STFU doesn’t do anything but reflect negatively on you.

[skydy]

YCA, No “bashing” from me, only observation and comparison of different riding styles. I’m surprised that you feel so defensive. An exchange of ideas, thoughts and observation is a good thing, I think, even amongst the peanut gallery.
Case in point, it is interesting that you say the horse is rather at his limit, that explains a lot of what I saw during that ride.