Wow. Burghley.

[LadyB]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8307010]
watch again and educate your eye. CR’s gallop is what you want for a 4* horse. I’d give it a 10. Look how well he finished a long tough course. He jumped beautifully out of stride. If anything his stride was a bit long in some of the combinations but as they looked set for a forward ride…they worked out just fine. But his gallop is absolutely extremely good. You WANT a flatter gallop. He does not look on his forehand but very balanced.[/QUOTE]

I do hope you understand my post was just because I am not familiar with what is the best type of gallop.

Your post comes off a little rude, when it was clearly a question of one who does not know.

[Maybelle_Cowbelle]

I can never remember that horse’s name! I had it as that and changed it and then changed it again. Should have googled it!

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=LadyB;8307101]
I do hope you understand my post was just because I am not familiar with what is the best type of gallop.

Your post comes off a little rude, when it was clearly a question of one who does not know.[/QUOTE]

it was not intended to be rude. Just that the gallop you didn’t like is actually an extremely good one for the level. So use the videos to educate your eye. Watch his and others. You will see A LOT of different gallops at the top of the sport but a gallop like CRs is closer to the ideal of what you want. It is the type that will conserve more energy on the longer courses but is still fast. A lot of people do not have an educated eye for a good xc gallop. It takes asking like you did…then going back and really watching a lot. Look at how they jump out of the gallop (and what the rider had to do) and how they finish long courses. Then hopefully some day you get a chance to sit on one. I’ve been lucky to have a few with top notch gallop’s and nothing is cooler although most do need some training. It isn’t the same as a flat racer’s or a really nice SJ’er either. For SJers, you want a rounder gallop but they typically are not galloping for 10+ minutes. And most super nice movers for straight dressage will have a crap gallop for this level of xc (as in tiring…but it will be pretty. Those horses just have to be so much more fit and it can cause soundness issues at these levels).

ETA: At Burghley, you are not going to see a BAD gallop. But ones that are between a 7-10. The ones that at 7 are often extremely good jumpers or good movers but their gallop is not as efficient as the horses with a 10 gallop.

[IFG]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8307010]
watch again and educate your eye. CR’s gallop is what you want for a 4* horse. I’d give it a 10. Look how well he finished a long tough course. He jumped beautifully out of stride. If anything his stride was a bit long in some of the combinations but as they looked set for a forward ride…they worked out just fine. But his gallop is absolutely extremely good. You WANT a flatter gallop. He does not look on his forehand but very balanced.[/QUOTE]

Thank you! Great information. I really appreciate your educated opinion. Always glad when you pop in!

[talkofthetown]

I’m a little late to the party…I was out of town over the weekend so I’m trying to catch up watching rides and reading comments. Can we go back to Andrew James for a minute?

Holy crap! :eek: Not only was the poor horse spent by the end, it didn’t look that great at the beginning either. I realize that a lot of correct, “pretty” riding can get lost running around cross country, but all I could focus on were his loose swinging legs, toes pointing way down, hauling on the reins before each jump, and…his unique jumping position? Stand straight up on take off and then snap down over the horse’s neck? And his horse looked so confused during the approach at multiple fences, lots of last minute lead changes and “wiggling” left and right for the last few strides. I’m not familiar with Andrew James. Is this a typical ride for him, or was he having a bad day?

Now, I’m a lower level ammie on a good day, so please correct me if my observations are wrong. He’s clearly competent enough to make it that level in the first place. It was just so…odd. I hate to use the term “bad riding”, because I don’t know what his horse is like nor do I ride at that level. But the whole ride just looked like a mess.

[LadyB]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8307121]
it was not intended to be rude. Just that the gallop you didn’t like is actually an extremely good one for the level. So use the videos to educate your eye. Watch his and others. You will see A LOT of different gallops at the top of the sport but a gallop like CRs is closer to the ideal of what you want. It is the type that will conserve more energy on the longer courses but is still fast. A lot of people do not have an educated eye for a good xc gallop. It takes asking like you did…then going back and really watching a lot. Look at how they jump out of the gallop (and what the rider had to do) and how they finish long courses. Then hopefully some day you get a chance to sit on one. I’ve been lucky to have a few with top notch gallop’s and nothing is cooler although most do need some training. It isn’t the same as a flat racer’s or a really nice SJ’er either. For SJers, you want a rounder gallop but they typically are not galloping for 10+ minutes. And most super nice movers for straight dressage will have a crap gallop for this level of xc (as in tiring…but it will be pretty. Those horses just have to be so much more fit and it can cause soundness issues at these levels).

ETA: At Burghley, you are not going to see a BAD gallop. But ones that are between a 7-10. The ones that at 7 are often extremely good jumpers or good movers but their gallop is not as efficient as the horses with a 10 gallop.[/QUOTE]

Ah okay, makes more sense, thank you for being a bit more detailed.

Can you train a flatter gallop like that? I assume body build is considered into how one gallops as well.

Interesting, as his looks like more work, but going back and watching, he covers more ground, with less work. Can jump out of stride.

Thank you again for being more detailed.

[LadyB]

Just watched Movistar, how sickening. The horse stumbles with exhausting in the show jump ring on cross, he’s literally pony club kicking the horse around, and smacking him. Clearly he’s exhausted. This is when horse welfare is the least of his concern, and a notch on his belt of completing Burghley is more important. SICKENING.

ETA: SHAME on any GJ that watched that and ignored it. How many fences does that horse need to climb over before its considered DANGEROUS RIDING?

[TBFAN]

What a gift Burghley tv is! Loved comparing the rides. Agree MJ is a master at quietly balancing his horses and in the rare moments when they fall behind his leg, he simply reminds them forward again with no fuss. Lovely ride.

After watching Leonidas, I’ve decided I would not like to ever sit on him XC! He seemed to be launching himself at the fences then throwing his landing gear out. I was so glad it was Toddy piloting him.

Does anyone know what happened with Redesigned? Seems he didn’t show jump but I haven’t looked at all the results. He was hoot on the cross - just a machine and Pippa gave him a super ride.

Its definitely on my list to attend next year!

[galloping-gourmet]

LOVED Colleen’s ride. Some sticky moments, but what an honest horse, and after each fence, sticky or otherwise, you can hear the 'Good Boy", awesome…

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=LadyB;8307196]
Ah okay, makes more sense, thank you for being a bit more detailed.

Can you train a flatter gallop like that? I assume body build is considered into how one gallops as well.

Interesting, as his looks like more work, but going back and watching, he covers more ground, with less work. Can jump out of stride.

Thank you again for being more detailed.[/QUOTE]

Thats a very good question. I’d ask a few others their opinion but my initial reaction is not really. It’s sort of like a walk. You really can’t improve a walk gait much. That said…you can make them more rideable in the gallop and on xc and that can really conserve energy too which could make up for a lesser gallop. Likewise, you really want a flatter jump over the xc jumps. And many horses do sort that out by the time they get to this level. It is a combination of efficient and fast gallop and jump plus ridability that lets a horse and rider make time and have enough left in the tank at the end on courses like this. And the mix of all the factors is a bit different with each pair. (assuming correct fitness. This is a factor in a 4* horse. Not all horses who can jump the fences have the gallop to make time and last…I can think of a few that some top riders have moved on because of this. It can be one of the key differences in a good 3* horse v. 4*)

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=LadyB;8307196]
Ah okay, makes more sense, thank you for being a bit more detailed.

Can you train a flatter gallop like that? I assume body build is considered into how one gallops as well.

Interesting, as his looks like more work, but going back and watching, he covers more ground, with less work. Can jump out of stride.

Thank you again for being more detailed.[/QUOTE]

I’m with BFNE that the gallop you get is the gallop you’re stuck with… I think you can shape it a little bit differently, package them and maybe teach them to stretch into a more efficient stride but by and large it’s their way of going and can’t really be trained out of them. Especially the horses who have a tendency to move with exaggerated front legs - super uphill types - makes them much slower and makes them have to burn more fuel to keep the time. I think you can set them up in a way where they are expending less over fences which can help with the inefficient movers - making sure they meet the fence at a spot that doesn’t require a significant effort on their part can result in a little more stamina later on as BFNE said. It sounds counterintuitive because the jumps are so daunting but you really want the horse to jump over the fence with minimal effort, not a lot of air-time. The air-time makes for lost time on the clock and more effort before and after to regain speed… which can tire a horse out quickly. Having a horse with an efficient jump is paramount as well - a rounder jump bascule will lose you time and eventually cause staggering time faults.

I think if you have a rateable horse at the gallop the odds might be a little more in your favor but I don’t really think you could teach Leonidas II to gallop like CR, or vice versa.

It’s all cumulative too… tons of horses have the scope but not the gallop… then there’s horses that have the gallop but not the jump… and then there’s horses that come along that might have both but not the mental stamina. It’s really a lot more than just jumping big things at speed.

[pony_grandma]

The gallop stride angle

http://www.somaxsports.com/photo.php?analysis=SecretariatSA

I should cross post this on the gallop threads, you can see the mechanics of why the horse drops their body to open their stride.

There was a superb gallop analysis video back in the 70’s that showed Secretariat’s efficiency vs the trashy movers. It was stunning in slow motion. I have searched and can’t find it.

[blackwly]

Another horse with that sort of great flat-ish gallop you describe is FischerRocana. When I first watched her I thought, huh, she is kind of downhill? But then I realized she is just incredibly efficient in covering the ground and her balance is perfect. It is probably why she doesn’t have the most expressive gaits in dressage… But it works really well on XC!

[redalter]

Damn

[QUOTE=LadyB;8307202]
Just watched Movistar, how sickening. The horse stumbles with exhausting in the show jump ring on cross, he’s literally pony club kicking the horse around, and smacking him. Clearly he’s exhausted. This is when horse welfare is the least of his concern, and a notch on his belt of completing Burghley is more important. SICKENING.

ETA: SHAME on any GJ that watched that and ignored it. How many fences does that horse need to climb over before its considered DANGEROUS RIDING?[/QUOTE]

Wow.

That just made me so sad.:no::no:
I have always been so proud of the majority of event people - we seem to have a very strong connection to our horses, and have an empathy for them - though we ask them to work hard, we are very careful to make sure we don’t ask more of them than they can give.

IT broke my heart a little to watch him crumple to his knees the one time, which I know could also have just been a peck, but then he trotted on landing a couple of jumps, clearly exhausted.
And he got a smart smack for the effort.
Shame on Andrew James.:mad:

[BWP]

@TBFAN;8307203

Does anyone know what happened with Redesigned? Seems he didn’t show jump but I haven’t looked at all the results. He was hoot on the cross - just a machine and Pippa gave him a super ride.

Pippa posted on Facebook that she felt he wasn’t 100% so withdrew him. Since then he has had the all clear from her vet so was ‘enjoying himself in the field’

[mommy_peanut]

Any word how Movistar is fairing? I’m appalled he was pushed so hard when he was clearly exhausted

[alicen]

[QUOTE=mommy peanut;8307604]
Any word how Movistar is fairing? I’m appalled he was pushed so hard when he was clearly exhausted :([/QUOTE]

He did the stadium jumping.

[NCRider]

[QUOTE=alicen;8307677]
He did the stadium jumping.[/QUOTE]

He actually looked fine in stadium. It was weird for sure. Even in xc, he almost looked more muscle tired than cardio tired.

I wish the stewards were more willing to pull people up rather than punishing them after the fact. I think it’s very hard for some of these riders to pull themselves up before they’ve had a refusal and I think it gets harder the closer they are to the finish when they start feeling things deteriorating. Particularly in a team situation. Not that that was the case here.

[StormyDay]

Does anyone know if Coral Keens’ Wellshead fare opposition is ok? He hit that jump hard!

[mommy_peanut]

[QUOTE=NCRider;8307725]
He actually looked fine in stadium. It was weird for sure. Even in xc, he almost looked more muscle tired than cardio tired.

I wish the stewards were more willing to pull people up rather than punishing them after the fact. I think it’s very hard for some of these riders to pull themselves up before they’ve had a refusal and I think it gets harder the closer they are to the finish when they start feeling things deteriorating. Particularly in a team situation. Not that that was the case here.[/QUOTE]

That’s good to hear. I only was able to watch their xc round, so wasn’t sure what their sj looked like.