I believe that we know who the victim is and it’s Lauren Kanarek.
I’m not sticking up for the poor and down trodden. It seems clear that she is a trust fund babe with millions of dollars at her disposal. I’m sticking up for LK as the victim of a shooting.
MB’s life is ruined, but he is a victim of his own grossly bad decisions and possibly a victim of the enabler who gave him a gun. It’s victim blaming to assert that Lauren is responsible for the fact that MB’s life is ruined.
He may or may not be a victim of harassing and obnoxious behavior on the part of LK. However harassed and stressed he felt by her behavior, he had plenty of moral and legal ways of dealing with it. It was his decision to get a gun and shoot her (an immoral and criminal way of dealing with it) and he should be held responsible for that decision regardless of how many people hated LK prior to the shooting because of her SM presence, or her threats to sue, or whatever.
Robin Hood stole from the rich to give to the poor. I have never attacked MB in order to defend the actual shooting victim. I can see that many MB partisans think that defending the shooting victim automatically constitutes attacking MB, but that is a warped perception on their part.
I strongly doubt that character witnesses will be called to testify as to the character of LK in the trial.
I’m not bothering to engage with the substance of what you say.
Re disclosing identities, you pronounced that the social norm was not to speculate. I believe you if you want to claim that you personally have never speculated on my identity. But I don’t remember a single poster, including you, calling out the various posters, such as Eggbutt and GrandPrix, who did.
Everyone is silent when I’m the target. I infer that the behavior is generally accepted as OK.
Without actually speculating on who Eggbutt is, I indicate that she has given considerable clues to her IRL identity. Then you, Eggbutt, and the group pile on saying that’s creepy, nasty behavior.
So, yeah, I have asked the moderator what the actual rule is.
“Running to the mods when we are unhappy with other posters”? How much mockery and insults have I put up with and ignored prior to asking for this clarification of the rules?
I am not trying to get the thread closed. But if reporting some of the objectionable behavior of other posters results in it being closed, I’m OK with that.
FYI if you read the forum rules, they state that if you have a “grievance” with another poster, you are ASKED to bring it to a mod INSTEAD of airing it in the discussion. So why have you not been doing that?
ETA Comparing MB to an abused victim of domestic violence was trotted out in a previous thread, and it was not a successful “theory”, even with the big pro- MB majority.
Lauren is the victim of a shooting yes.
Do we know that MB made a decision to get a gun and shoot her? Well, actually, no we don’t know that for a fact, no matter what LK says. I believe that is what the trial is for.
Whether people like MB or know him personally has nothing to do with people wondering why you are rabidly supporting such a horrible person like LK when you don’t know her. It is just odd behavior to spend hours upon hours, on a daily basis, proclaiming your undying support for someone you don’t know. If you put this much energy into your real life relationships, you must be a very good friend.
Another curiosity: how hard YD tried to get somebody, anybody, to have her banned. Didn’t really seem to get that no one cared enough about him/her to bother. I admit to being very puzzled by the directions Doodles gallops off in.
Why would I try to get myself banned? I can voluntarily quit posting and resume when I want to, which is obviously strictly preferable to being banned.
Given all the animosity toward me in earlier threads, I did anticipate someone would attempt to get me banned.
But on what basis could someone suggest to the mods that I be banned? Because I post stuff you disagree with?
The hypo was with respect to being a neutral observer and not taking one side or the other. This assertion is in direct opposition to saying the GS victim is without qualification the more believable. There are cases in which that is simply untrue. I presented one. I know this might be complex, but the connection was to how we might view in the abstract [as you claim you do] a victim’s word as against a shooter’s word. Not how we would view this exact victim and shooter. Don’t [deliberately] confuse the point.
You love to make hypos not directly related to the underlying case. Allow that others might do so, too. Please re-read and see the connection I was making. It is salient and on point with respect to your abundant verbiage, while not relating directly to MB and LK and specifics of their interaction.
My pet peeve about some contentious threads… antagonists loudly and contemptuously holding court and yet portraying themselves as a poor, downtrodden victim of some kind… and I am not talking about LK.
I agree. It is so tedious. It’s like a dog with a bone - make like Elsa and let it go! Why keep coming somewhere you are so hard done to? The ID thing - beaten like the proverbial dead horse. It’s almost fascinating to contemplate a personality that doggedly keeps after a situation in which they are soooooo victimized. Except that it is so *&^%$#% annoying.
No dear. I’m not going through all your blab, but distinctly remember you ,yourself, at least twice, saying if you don’t like my presence here, why not get me banned. You know you did,and my thought at the time was”Hey, YD, ban your own dang self. It’s easy peasy- just step away from the keyboard”😂
I do not believe that the “gunshot victim without qualification is the more believable”.
In terms of publicly available information, my belief that MB borrowed a gun from someone, drove over to the house and shot her in the chest twice is based on news reports and the fact that the DA charged him with 2 counts of attempted first degree murder and 2 counts of possession of a weapon. I assume that the police and DA had a lot more information than “what Lauren said”. I’m going by what the grand jury in fact did, NOT on what Lauren says. However, what Lauren has said happens to be fully consistent with the objectively known charges.
WRT believing what Lauren says, my policy is to provisionally believe what she says, until I see evidence to the contrary. When she said there were gun charges against RC, I provisionally believed her while others “accused” her of lying when they couldn’t get instant verification on a searchable database. I said early on that it might not be in a searchable database, even if true, and people let me know I was stupid and wrong. Turns out it’s NOT necessarily on a searchable database, even if true. I still provisionally believe that RC was arrested on gun charges, in large part because logically he had to get the gun somewhere.
I don’t think I’ve ever said “Here’s what I think happened, purely on the basis that LK says this is what happened.” I look at the minimal facts that are available and try to create a hypothesis that logically fits them.
It is still the case that if you object to my presence here, I would prefer, strongly prefer, in fact, that instead of the mocking and jabbing, you report any objectionable posts of mine to the moderator, and have the moderator ban me or not, as she sees fit.
My preference ordering is
I am not banned, and step away from the keyboard if I choose to.
You try to get rid of me by complaining to the moderator, and I’m possibly banned.
You don’t bother complaining to the moderator, but just continue to try to get rid of me by harassing and mocking me.
Nope. Not wanting to get rid of you. You are highly entertaining. So I think I’ll choose door number 4. Which is the one that says I’m always up for being entertained.
I’m not responding to your “provisionally believing” stuff like the Ruth Cox arrest. I’m responding to this direct quote from you when asked who seems more credible MB or LK. I presented a hypo in which this would not be true. I did not present a hypo relevant to the MB LK altercation. I gave a hypo relevant to this that you posted as your opinion:
“Prior to the shooting, Barisone.
After the shooting, the person who was shot.”
That statement is in direct opposition to your so-claimed abstraction and neutrality. And, honestly, you know it. You know your participation here is not just abstract and academic for you. You simply pretzel-logic things to make up look like down when called on some of your tactics and inconsistencies. So please just stop. No one is going to use your preferred method of running to the mods.
What could you possibly hope to accomplish here at this point. No one is open to either the methods or the content of your persuasion. Additionally, everyone finds your dog-with-a-bone belabouring of a host of off-topic items (like IDing posters) tedious and distracting to the actual topic at hand. Finally, you are now evoking moderator input and no one wants the thread shut down.
So, unless your real objective is shutting this down, why not just stop?
Yeah, fair enough. I think I’m so used to rational discussion in which people understand the topic, stick to it, are open to getting called on and correcting their BS, and are genuine in their motivation for participation. So, I got drawn in b/c there was such a crap tonne of hypocrisy and inconsistency and that, I will admit, bugs me. Lack of internal consistency is a pet peeve of mine.
But, you are ultimately correct and I admit I have helped YD make this the YD Show, starring YD!
It is not my objective to shut the thread down. However, at this point I am reporting what I regard as objectionable behavior on the part of other posters to the mods. If the thread is shut down, I don’t care. If you blame me for getting it shut down, I don’t care.
The forum rules instruct that if one has a grievance with another poster, one is supposed to alert the moderator of the objectionable post rather than air the grievance in the thread.
If you find my posts objectionable, it’s your call whether you report them to the mods or not. I have no problem scrolling by all the recipes and song lyrics; you can perfectly well scroll by my posts.
