@babalina take a deep breath. Listen. $4k is A LOT. Horses are intrinsically money pits. So in my opinion. You have to strip away the woo woo and the feelings. And reset to what is before you. You have what looks like an overweight perhaps metabolic mare. Who seems to be limping on her right front on tight turns. Wedges gave her some relief. If it were me. I’d image her front feet. Get her on a EMS diet and take a long look at her hoof health, coffin bone orientation, and her navicular bone.
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I think you’re getting some good feedback and insights here. And I have to agree about the wedge pads. They seem to have helped, but why? And did you ask your new farrier why he thought wedge pads were a good idea?
If she were my mare, I’d be getting both front feet xrayed and having a full metabolic blood panel drawn. Like, tomorrow. Okay, tomorrow is Fourth of July, so I guess I’d have it done Friday.
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Wedge pads usually alleviate heel pain. Can you take picture of her feet close up from the side the bottom and pics of her leg column ?
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it wasn’t just on vet bills. I said lotions, potions, medications, seers, psychics, treatments, vet bills supplements, transport, yadda yadda. The vet bills included 3 physical exams, x rays, farm calls, transport to the clinic, medication, treatments, palpitations. Yes, it is frustrating . Yes, I contacted an animal communicator so seers and psychics not hyperbolic. I do not want to give the impression I spent 4k on vet bills. I am afraid to add them up, it is a lot. More will be spent. More on chiropractic treatment a a slew of new meds, including nearly 300.00 on 2 bottles of Regen-x just this week, along with a couple of hundred dollars on Vit E, MSM, DSM, DMSO, Furazone this week. It adds up. No normal person would not feel doom and gloom at this point.
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I’m not a vet but I’ve looked at a lot of lame horses. To me, she is still lame on the left front. Going both directions but worse to the right. She nods down when weight bearing on the right front. That means the head comes up when landing on the left front. For front limb, it’s “down on sound”.
The area of the shoulder you are looking at is around the body of the scapula. It’s a far ways from the shoulder joint. Now for sure there can be a lot of reasons for pain and restriction due to problems in the scapula area, usually fascia and muscle. But I have a horse who actually broke his scapula and am acutely aware of all of these problems. Your horse is not nearly lame enough on the right front for me to think her main issue is that shoulder. You may have a lot of tightness in those fascial bands on that side, creating those dips you see in comparison to the other side where you are mostly just looking at an overweight horse. That could be because she’s more lame on the other leg for so long.
It seems the injection made some improvement but has not fixed your ankle problem. There could maybe be soft tissue involvement, or maybe she will need another round of Noltrex. Better farrier work and getting weight off will help. You can check out the Fatty McFatterson thread for some information on how to diagnose and manage metabolic horses. You may need to do some blood tests and possibly go with some medications to help with that while she is still too lame to exercise much.
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Time out. Was your “second opinion”, the diagnoser of the shoulder injury, your farrier? Not a different vet? Farriers are great at feet. Sometimes they can give suggestions like saying “hey, your horse doesn’t like it when I stretch her front leg forward, have you looked at her shoulder?” They should NOT be diagnosing muscle injuries. Maybe spend less money on the horse psychic and more money on x-rays of the feet and getting her tested for insulin resistance problems. She still looks lame on the left front from your latest video, and the way she walks where she kind of throws her feet out in front of her screams sore feet.
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The original post mentioned a bone spur in the fetlock.
My guess is the ligaments/tendons are under constant irritation from the spur.
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Maybe yes, maybe no. Advanced OA will lay down extra bone but you may not know just from the presence of a spur if soft tissue really is irritated. And you won’t see that so much on Xray. Advanced OA causing lameness in the nature of bone or subchondral pain and/or synovitis (versus ligament or tendon irritation) at the walk may not improve to 0/5 after one injection. Hydrogel is pretty good in those situations in ankles but not always a miracle.
But, there’s a generalization that lame on the leg on the inside of the circle is more often bone and lame on the leg on the outside of the circle (which we have here) is more often soft tissue. My vet has said that, but I don’t know statistically how accurate that is. It is something to consider anyway. I mean, you could have a sore P3 on the medial side that will probably be more ouchy turning with that leg on the outside of the circle…
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Horses can adapt to guns shooting off and fireworks. I had one neighbor do a fireworks show every year. He aims the fireworks above the roof of my barn. Not sure if he is doing one this year or not.
They also target shoot into the sinkhole - 30 ft from my fenceline. They do call me to let me know which I really appreciate because I don’t want to have a horse jump on me unexpectedly.
I agree on adding hoof x rays. Always a good idea, especially with easy keepers.
I see no reason for you to try to insult me. FYI I had 3 different physical exams by two different vets. The vets and my horse met 4 different times in a span of 2 months. She had a 1st physical exam and a steroid treatment of the left fetlock. She had a second physical exam. This lead to a referral to second opinion to a second vet and more xrays of her fetlock. If they wanted me to take an xray of her hoof, they would have suggested it. This lead to a fourth visit with a vet for the noltrex treatment. It isn’t my place to tell the Dr.s what x rays they should take, that is their business, not mine. It isn’t your place to tell me who or whom I should not be listening to or for you to suggest how to spend my money, any more than it would be me suggesting how to spend your money. Capisce?
People are trying to help you here not insult you.
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yes most people are trying to help me. almost all.
She thinks I’m insulting her because I suggested spending more money on the vet and less on the horse psychic. Which isn’t an insult, just a suggestion.
Listen, OP. This happens all the time. People come to COTH asking for advice. Somehow, someway, a large majority of the posters agree and offer very similar suggestions. OP continues to stay their path and insist that won’t help. So why ask for advice?
All I’m saying is a FARRIER cannot diagnose an injury or problem above the hoof. The same way they are not legally allowed to give a shot of sedation, because they are not a vet and do not have a vet’s insurance if something goes wrong. Not to mention they don’t have the same schooling that a vet does. I’m sure your farrier is great. I have huge respect for good farriers. But no farrier I have ever worked with would give a treatment plan for an injury other than an abscess, quarter crack, deep heel cleft, etc. If your farrier thinks there’s something wrong in the shoulder, load your horse up and go back to the vet and say “hey, can we look at the right shoulder specifically?” While you’re there, you absolutely CAN request that the vet x-rays the feet. Maybe at the time of your initial appointments the vet was focused on the fetlock, but now that treating the fetlock isn’t working, you are well within your rights to ask them to look at something else. Even if they don’t think there’s a problem in the hoof, it never hurts to have baseline x-rays of the feet anyways.
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It is legal to spotlight deer in CWD ‘‘post season targeted removal’’, sadly. Like I moved to an alternate universe. So crazy. World has gone insane. Here is a quote ‘’ Harvest Methods Are Different for Targeted Removal
To maximize the effectiveness of post-season targeted removal, landowners and MDC shooting teams may deviate from hunting-season regulation restrictions. With permission from MDC, they may use spotlights or place limited amounts of bait to help remove targeted deer on designated areas.’’ and the link to it is https://mdc.mo.gov/hunting-trapping/species/deer/chronic-wasting-disease/post-season-targeted-removal
Yikes. People are trying to help you, and sometimes that includes some gentle reality checks. You don’t have to listen, ultimately, but getting heated on a forum isn’t productive.
FYI: when dealing with vets, especially vets that aren’t in a big clinic setting (and sometimes even then), you as the owner often have to push a bit for certain things like hoof X-rays or blood pulls. It’s not ideal, but you are the one who sees the horse daily and for things that aren’t “this horse’s leg looks broken we should take an X-ray”, you sometimes have to ask for them. Especially if you’re the client who is vocally on a budget (that has been a huge part of your threads, concerns about the costs), vets will often hesitate to suggest extra tests right out the gate. They’ll try to get the basics, offer options, and then wait for the client to ask about options that may cost more money.
All that said, it is highly frustrating when you’re dealing with something like this that isn’t immediately obvious and you feel as if you’ve spent a lot to get minimal information. I feel for you on that front.
The horse is obese, and it looks like you’re dealing with something a single injection isn’t covering. That’s going to require some digging, and likely some massive management changes at the least.
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This is good advice. Any farrier who is diagnosing and giving out treatment plans for anything above the hairline is breaching their professional boundaries. They can be invaluable in guiding the owner, but they aren’t vets.
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Thanks I will look into it. To be honest with you, the horseman showed me the muscle tear, and I felt it but after he left, I wasn’t sure where it was anymore. So I am kind of dopey about that. I should have had him mark it with paint or something. He is coming back on the 12th I will ask again and mark it. I have zero experience with all of this and I appreciate your comments. He was here less than 7 days ago when her shoe fell off and he tested her hooves with the hoof tester again and no reaction. Also, all the vets hoof tested her hooves. Would a bad bone or sore feet in the hoof show up with a hoof tester? I can consider the blood tests, would have been nice to have had it done with the 4 times my horse and vets met each other. They absolutely warned me of metabolic issues and to drop weight off. I am trying. I was even looking at equine muzzles online but it is bug season right now… she would hate me.
OK Sarah, I get it now. I think you just gave me some good advice. Thank you.
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If she gets laminitic or founders she would be in way worse shape than hating a muzzle. And no navicular or even laminitis doesn’t always react to hoof testers. Baseline hoof X-rays ESPECIALLY in an obese horse are never a bad idea. It lets you know a bit of her history and you can compare going forward. Anyway you can post up close pics of her feet on a hard surface ? Honestly just trying to help. I have been there done that. Got the tshirt with metabolic horses.
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Yes i can take pictures. i can do as soon as I can. Not keen on giving her another noltrex shot because she became much more lame than ever, after the noltrex injection for weeks, than before the shot and I have the videos I think seeing only bits and bobs and not getting a complete picture so I made a visual history in one incredibly long video, for my own records, because even I was getting confused.
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