WTD-Buy the baby or keep the 3 y/o

[TatteredDaydreamer]

I have a lovely three year old that I purchased last November as my hunter prospect. He’s a gorgeous mover with a fabulous jump. Bit of a common head but he’s absolutely grown into it since I’ve had him. Only downfall is his size. I don’t think he will mature to the size I need. I’m 5’8, all leg and fatter then I should be currently. I bought him knowing this, and resting on the fact that he’ll be fairly marketable if I need to move him on. I know that these WB babies can grow for years, but he looks so balanced and even right now, I just don’t see him shooting up another couple inches. If I do decide to give him extra time, that means putting more $$ into him for training, etc for at least another year and he still might not grow.

Same breeder has a baby from a different cross that was born a week ago. I’ve seen the other two full siblings and they are lovely, and very big. Only downfall is I was really hoping for a pinto and this guy is an adorable bay with a snip and a sock. The full siblings I’ve seen have a fabulous personality, super easy, jump like freaks and are decent movers, maybe not quite as impressive as my guy is but lovely in their own right.

I’m torn on what the best option for me is. I unfortunately can’t keep both as I’ve got a retired mare also on my payroll. So, do I move my three year old along and buy this baby, or keep the three year old and see how he develops? The breeder won’t have another baby out of the cross I’m considering until 2023, so if I pass on this one, I wait at least 2 years to get another chance. I’m not at all in a hurry, and have the ability to lease something/ride while this baby is growing up. What would you do?

[JB]

@TatteredDaydreamer

I know that these WB babies can grow for years, but he looks so balanced and even right now, I just don’t see him shooting up another couple inches

Don’t forget how much wider they can get. Mine got very wide after his 5yo year. He also grew as a very balanced youngster, never someone you wanted to hide behind the barn, and grew 2" after his 3yo year

How tall are his parents, and their parents?

Have you string-tested the 3yo, using both ways? Ergot to elbow, x2, add ground to ergot, and then mid-knee to coronet along the contours, inches = hands (ie 16 1/2" = 16.2h)

The potential new baby - there’s no guarantee he’s going to be as big as his full siblings

[beowulf]

The new baby is an unknown. You may end up in the same situation three years down the line.

What size are the parents of your 3 y/o?

I have a filly now that grew balanced and even from 4 months old to now. She was the first of the foals I’ve raised to never go through an ugly uneven phase. When she hit 3, I stuck her at 16.0H and thought that was a nice, respectable size and please don’t grow anymore… She’s turning 5 next week and is now 17.3…

They do grow – up, out, and across – a lot after three. I typically see them grow about a hand from their 3 y/o year on. I’ve gotten several TBs that have surprised me by how much they’ve grown after a few years. Don’t forget the WB babies tend to grow wither slow – usually last – and that makes up a fair bit of their size and presence.

[clanter]

just reading OP’s post it appears psychologically the three year is already gone.

Even it were to develop later, just the way the post is worded there would always be that question “I should have sold it as a three year old” in OP’s mind

[vxf111]

I’ve rarely seen a WB not grow significantly after 3 years old… both up but also filling out. How big is the 3 year old now? How big are the parents? Frankie look balanced and even at 3… and then grew 3 more inches up and went from an 78 to an 84 blanket. And how he’s MASSIVE.

You are not that tall You looked fine on a 16.1 TB IIRC

The big risk in starting over with the foal is that you have to wait YEARS (during which something bad/career ending can happen). If you like the 3 year old I don’t really see a reason to roll the dice and start over.

If you’re not that thrilled about the 3 year old, that’s a whole 'nother story. But he’s almost ready to start riding more seriously and it seems like a weird time to start over if you do like him.

[beowulf]

@vxf111

Frankie look balanced and even at 3… and then grew 3 more inches up and went from an 78 to an 84 blanket.

Going through this now with the filly… Honestly, the audacity of this mare… She was a 78 coming out of winter last year with her rainsheet draping off of her like a tent… This spring that same blanket looked like a miniskirt on her!

OP, there’s still hope. Plus, you don’t want to wait another 3ish years to ride, right?!

[2DogsFarm]

Siding with @vxf111
If breeders will have your desired cross in 2yrs, why not wait & see what your 3yo is at 5?

A foal is a crapshoot for you now.
No matter how talented other offspring are, this one could be less talented.
A lot less.

[TatteredDaydreamer]

Thanks everyone, I am leaning towards waiting as well, the reason I’m so torn is I really like this baby. I love my current gelding as well but I don’t want to miss out on the baby either. I feel like also if this baby is still there in the spring then it is meant to be, and if not, then there will be others.

@vxf111 you are correct, my gelding was around 16.1, but had a huge barrel and I’m heavier now (but working on it!!).

[vxf111]

You’re being way too hard on yourself re: size. You used to catch ride ponies as an adult! I guarantee you’re not too big for your horse and that by the time he fills out he’s going to be much larger looking and take up more leg than he does now.

[Mander]

@TatteredDaydreamer

the reason I’m so torn is I really like this baby. I love my current gelding as well but I don’t want to miss out on the baby either.

IME this is a terrible reason to do, well, just about anything. Everyone loves babies! But there will always be other babies down the road. Maybe not from this breeder/stud/mare, but its not as though you’re missing out on the ONLY baby in the world. If you find yourself actually in the market for a weanling (as opposed to just wishfully window shopping), I can practically guarantee that you will find one that you will equally fall in love with.

There’s also a chance that even if this baby sells, a few years down the road it may come up for sale again and you’ll have a much much better idea of if he’ll actually work for you. I’ve heard so many stories of this exact thing happening.

[TatteredDaydreamer]

To be fair, I’m not just in love with him because it’s a baby. I’ve been around babies for many years and I agree, they’re all adorable. I just really, really like what this cross has produced and have watched two full siblings mature very nicely. I also unfortunately don’t have the budget for something going, which is part of the reason I buy young horses. I love working with them, doing the ground work, and developing the relationship with them as they grow up almost as much as riding them!

[TatteredDaydreamer]

Thanks so much, but that was many years and pounds ago!

We actually haven’t started him yet, are taking it super slow and easy. He’s started wearing a saddle now through so we’re getting there. He is indeed a really cool guy!

[Janet]

I am going to vote for keeping the 3 yo…

A) “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush”. With the three year old you have

• already survived all the accidents and injuries that can happen with babies, yearlings,and two year olds.
• has a good, balanced conformation, is a “gorgeous mover with a fabulous jump”. There is no guarantee the baby will grow up to have any, if not all, of those things.

B) Breeding doesn’t guarantee anything.

• WRT height, I leased and rode, for many years, a 14h3" Trak x Anglo Arab, whose dam was 15h3" and whose sire was well over 16h. There is no guarantee how big the baby will grow.
• WRT temperament and talent, my sister and I owned full sibling TBs. Same color, same height, same conformation, but boy were their temperaments and talents different.
  – The mare was a real firecracker, but once she was working for you instead of against you, she was a terrific Eventer. She progressed from her first starter trial to placing well at Preliminary (3’7") in about 3 years.
  – The gelding had the most laid back, eager-to-please attitude of any horse I have worked with. But he was timid and easily over-faced (in which case he would just plant his feet and refuse to move), and he wasn’t very athletic. He was pretty much maxed out at Novice (2’11"). I leased him out two two different pre-teens, and he did a really good job of taking them from “just starting jumping” to Novice, but that was his limit.
• So I would not use the baby’s siblings size and ability as predictors of the baby’s size and ability.

C) Height.
-The three-year-old height is rarely the final height. I leased a TB mare (and TBs mature sooner than WBs) who grew another (at least) 2" (might have been 3") AFTER age 5.

• You probably don’t “need” as big a horse as you think you do. I am 5’6" and NOT skinny, and I don’t think I Iooked too big on either the 14h3" Trak x Anglo Arab, or my current 15h1" TB x Connemara, both of which I competed regularly at Training level (3’3")

[vxf111]

Unless he is truly stunted… he’s going to be fine. How big were the sire and the dam? Is he their first offspring? What does he string test to?

[IPEsq]

How small are you thinking he will be? My dinosaur horse grew through year 8, with lots of height and width after age 5. I think around his 6th birthday he grew over an inch within a week. At this point I stopped measuring because he was already too big and I just didn’t want to know. But I know he did get bigger…new tack, new blankets.

He looked like all legs still at 4, more like a 3yo than 4yo. And while he did have some more downhill moments as a late 4yo, overall, he was pretty balanced looking. I thought he’d just fill out but everything got bigger. I even bought bigger bits and bridles around age 7 or so. His full brother stayed almost a hand shorter (but still a sizeable horse and very similar bone and conformation overall).

Current horse I bought at 7 and he hasn’t changed at all. He’s a totally different body type but at 16.2 is still plenty of horse for me being about your height and also carrying some extra lbs. I look tall on a horse largely because I’m long backed, tall from sit bones to head. A longer horse (longer back, longer neck), balances the picture out, and if they have a decent barrel and enough length, I can look ok on a 16h up to the dinosaur size.

If your 3yo is so balanced now, he’ll probably be fairly easy to start and could be a bit farther along than average at 5, so he could probably be quite sellable now or a little later.

[Against_All_Odds2]

I can’t believe there is a thread about an adorable-not-ugly-duckling-3 year old and an adorable baby and no one has asked for pics yet…

We need some photos of these dashing dudes!

[TatteredDaydreamer]

Mare is 16hh, Sire is 16.1hh but my gelding’s full brother is 16.3hh/17hh so there’s height in the pedigree. He string tests a smidge under 16.2hh, which I think I would be fine with.

[TatteredDaydreamer]

Photos of the three year old!!
Guinness 2|375x500

[beowulf]

Oh no, no, no.

He’s awful, you have to get rid of him. No wonder you’re second guessing yourself.

I’ll send you a trailer to pick him up and get him out of your hair ASAP.

[TatteredDaydreamer]

I’m legit LOLing, thank you for the compliment. I think he’s pretty special! I don’t know why his headshot didn’t load but if you click on the link it should.