WTF Are We Doing?

True. I was speaking more generally, but didn’t make that clear. I realize you were not responding to me but I wanted to clarify.

I don’t think its a “freak” accident but this doesn’t quite fall the same under the “how can we make the sport safer” umbrella. It was just an unfortunate result of the factors that can occur when we ask horses to perform. As can many others.

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Tilly Berendt, the EN author of the article, posted a comment on FB yesterday in which I think she was trying to address the “freak accident” messaging of the headline (it looked like the comments were getting pretty intense, and EN actually turned them off after a certain point, which I’m not sure I’ve seen them do before). Here’s what Tilly said:

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I want to say something here, not necessarily as the author of this article, but as an observer of sport on the day: while I absolutely believe we have to hold our sport accountable and do everything we can, as media, as fans, as riders, and as course designers, to ensure a safer sport, this incident truly was something I would consider an anomaly. I have rewatched the video of the complex where the injury happened countless times; it was the C element, a reasonably inconsequential table on dry land, where California skimmed her knee and sustained the injury. In the video, it is impossible to tell that such an injury had occurred; the striding was spot on, the horse jumped the fence well; there would be no evidence to suggest, just from viewing, that anything untoward had happened. Absolutely, we must constantly adapt and develop our sport to make it safer for equine athletes — but this course was designed specifically to avoid horse falls, and indeed, we didn’t see a single one across the CCI5*. That this incident occurred is horrendously sad — and must, of course, be analysed so as to be avoided in future — but the complex was not one that was designed to punish horses, nor was the course at large, which was designed with angles and skinnies so that penalties could be picked up for runouts, rather than horse falls — the direction, I believe, that the sport must go in order to survive. My thoughts are with Tamie and her team at this sad time.
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Get rid of tables?

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If we would just start breeding horses without legs, we would solve the problem of them breaking.

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Unfortunately, I knew of a young horse that tripped over either a x-rail or teeny tiny vertical and landed on his head and neck. He did not survive the injury from the trip. Sadly I think it happens more than we think :frowning:

I don’t have the answer; I also don’t know IF I had a horse w/ the talent and I had the money (I don’t on either count) , if I would sign it up for upper level eventing and I love the sport for my low level little self.

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Funny. If we would stop asking them to jump max height solid obstacles, though…

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My mare broke her leg in the pasture, should we stop turning them out, too?

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I love when we go down this route.

One is a part of every day horse care.

One is asking the horse to participate in the X-Games.

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All risk is NOT created equal.

To use a recent human example:

There’s a risk in walking down the sidewalk. There’s also a risk in going down in the ocean to a depth of 12,500+ feet. Those two risks are not equal.

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I just know this will be unpopular, but I think it’s important to be honest on this thread. I’m open to discussion.

My mare is abjectly miserable without a job. To the point where I’m not sure how she will ever handle retirement, and I am seriously preparing myself for the fact that I may have to look into alternatives when that time comes (which would be very much against my will). She likes to work. She likes to be tired and at that point she’ll enjoy a nap. If she’s in a program you could put your grandmother on her. If I try to give her time off she climbs the walls, she destroys things, she’s difficult to handle, and she hurts herself.

I’m sure the response to that is “let her work, but not at five star”. Well, I don’t know where to draw the line. A close friend of mine lost her horse to an on-course injury going Training level. My mare pulls my arms out around a Training course, but she’s an angel at Prelim where the jumps fill her eye a bit more. I can think of five star horses now that are incredible at what they do, but significantly more reckless below the four star level. That’s not safer either.

My only guiding principle with horses is that we owe it to them to give them a good life. They should be happy, they should be healthy, they should not be in distress (mental or physical). I want to give every horse of mine a long life, but that is not always possible. We owe them a good life, but no matter how much we may wish to, I do not think we can always promise them a long one.

California enjoyed her job. She was happy, she was healthy. When something went wrong, as life tends to do, they did everything they could and decided that they could no longer give her a life without distress. So they relieved her of it. Horses have no sense of the future, but they know about the present. They made sure she always had a good present, because that was within their control. I do not think there is much more that we can do.

To be clear, I am not saying we should not try to learn and make advancements and improve safety. We should, all the time. I have countless posts advocating for that. But I do not think we should stop enjoying life with our horses, even if it comes with some inherent risk to them or to us. I just don’t think life in bubble wrap is worth living.

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I agree with what you’re saying. But, I do wonder what the limit is in which you could confidently say “that’s reckless.”

Is 5* eventing reckless? 4*?

I have to say there is no frikkin way I would allow a horse of mine to run at those levels, even if they had the talent to do it. Not a chance.

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Do the jumps have to be solid, AKA kill a horse, if you hit them?

Thinking of the miles upon miles of progress made at steeplechase courses… A horse crashes through those fences and it looks like they were just running through red tape.

I’m out of solutions. It’s hard to love this sport on days like today.

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Note I feel this way about lots of horse sports. I think the Tevis is absolutely stupid. Riding a horse in the dark on treacherous terrain is 100% reckless.

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I think it is reckless to run any horse at a level where they are scoped out. Running my mare at 5* would probably be reckless (much as I personally think she is the best horse in the world). But there are many horses today for whom 5* is well within their capacity (there is a reason why even the top levels of eventing is well below the top show jumping heights). I don’t think it is reckless to ask them to do it.

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I honestly don’t know how I feel. It can go both ways.

What is undoubtedly reckless is the TD’s allowing a dangerous ride on course to continue, be it a scoped out horse or a bad day for the pair. But it seems like it’s pulling teeth to pull someone up.

It’s gotten better, but there’s a long way to go on that front.

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100% agreement from me on this one. No question.

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If the horse is trained to it it is not reckless. Horses see very well in the dark.
Having led a pack string in the Selway-Bitteroot at night, its not perfect, but it’s not insane either.
Like backcountry or bush plane flying.

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If it’s necessary to get to cattle, I can see it a little better than in the case of the Tevis, which is an optional endurance competition.

Back country or bush plane flying is an endeavor taken on by humans who can understand the risk being taken. The horses would not be doing what they’re doing if it weren’t for us asking, and we need to keep that in mind.

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By my observation, Eventing is uniquely international in its coverage and in the interest of it’s followers. That means a fatal fall in Australia gets coverage in American media. There is nothing comparable in show jumping, or polo or foxhunting or even horse racing. Possibly in Endurance because of despicable levels of abuse in the Gulf.

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