Indeed. I hate young horse futurities and the like. What a way to encourage people to rush the process.
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There is an age restriction for horses. 5 is the minimum age a Preliminary horse can be. By USEF/USEA rules, this rider was within their rights to ride a 5 y/o horse at Training level.
My response wasnât âwell a pro can get away with itâ. My response was pointing out that I have no issue with it, if itâs the right horse and rider. I pointed out professionals, because professionals rarely get criticized for this and they are often the guiltiest party â they will run 4 or 5 y/os at Training and 5 y/os at Preliminary.
For perspective â the FEH and YEH have horses jumping higher than training level in their later classes. For 5 y/os the max height on XC is 3â7".
Iâm sensing a disconnect here about how challenging you think a Training level course should be. Iâve ridden Training as a terrible amateur (and it was terribly challenging for me!) but I never once felt the fences were so big that a mistake would kill one of us. Training should not be unforgiving; it is a level for riders and horses with some experience (as defined by USEA) and is one of the last low levels before things get technical and challenging enough that a horse with no scope becomes endangered.
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The rider in question is a pro, from your own screenshot. It also says sheâs been active since at least 2016 when she was a young rider:
MERs are a valid discussion to have, but there are pros and cons. Requiring MERs at the lower levels is going to discourage more riders from recognized events. There are plenty of places to gain experience at Training and below without having to go recognized, so itâs not crazy to me that someone would only have a handful of events on their official record and still run at that level.
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I mean, prelim is described as a âmoderate examinationâ of the horse and riderâs skills by the USEA. Training might not be a big deal to some pairs, but to others they are flat out not ready and the jumps are too big to be solid.
@dmveventer pro doesnât mean anything without context. Boyd Martin is a pro. Suzie giving up-downs is a pro, too.
My issue with it is that these horses are still babies.
i actually did it with my upper level horse; We did 5 y/o champs at Fair Hill. Looking back, I really wish I didnât. It wasnât fair to my horse and was not helpful for her longevity.
But we are getting off topicâŠ
I do think accidents like this can happen at training level. I saw the majority of this course and felt it was a very soft training compared to Rocking Horse, for example.
I think factors such as horse experience, rider experience, and coaching are what need to be focused on.
I am not putting blame on anyone here, but there needs to be change.
Praying for her and her family
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Maybe, but maybe it shouldnât be about âwhatâs going to get more people in the doorâ and instead should be âwhatâs it going to take to ensure we are supporting only the pinnacle of safety here, and doing literally everything we can at our recognized events to prevent accidents?â
The cultural issue of âwell what level are YOU at?â is really the only reason someone would rush the process.
Someone who is better than I am at this - has the rider ever shown a horse higher than training? I didnât see it in the records, but the USEF stuff is pretty clunky for me.
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I donât disagree with you there at all. But I wonât criticize this pair, itâs not my place, and some horses are mature at 5 y/o (like my gelding) and some are perennially babies, like my 7 y/o mare.
Separating this awful tragedy from AKF for a second: you made a comment you thought this course was soft. I always thought it was an event for horses who could take a joke; caveat being, I was not there this year. When I think of soft events I think of Course Brook.
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Yes I do think it was similar to course brook as far as challenging goesâŠalso the season is coming to an end.
For area 1, a tougher training in my opinion would be Town Hill, Millbrook, GMHA.
Edit to add, I think AKF would be a good move up .
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I agree - both in body and in mind - the horse may not have had the experience/depth of knowledge to find âitâs 5th legâ
Would really like to know what caused this - says the lower level smurf⊠This is now a lost horse and a lost older adult amateur fall 2023. A very very sad fall seasonâŠ
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I was responding to this suggestion:
This rider is not an amateur so MERs and age restrictions targeting amateurs would have no impact on whatever happened this weekend.
We have no information. What exactly do you think happened in this fall, since you seem to have so much more insight than the rest of us?
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Here is blunt and outspoken.
You were not there
You are not a family, barn or horse connection
You are lurking and speculating with no facts
Having been involved in multiple serious injury and fatality investigations and subsequent root cause analysis that resulted in policy changes, YOU ARE NOT HELPING.
Stop already and show a little consideration and respect since compassion is obviously not in your wheelhouse.
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And weâre back to blaming the rider. How do you know she was ârushing the processâ since you donât know her background, her motivation, or what actually went wrong? There are plenty of reasons riders can wind up struggling besides rushing up the levels to show off. Thereâs never a guarantee that youâre ready to step up until you do it, and training level shouldnât be challenging enough that an honest mistake should be fatal. Even if they were unprepared, which we canât know without more info, I still think there must have been something else at play to lead to this outcome.
Thereâs no way to make this sport 100% safe. If thatâs your goal horses are not the sport for you. You canât propose solutions in this case without knowing whether this fall was caused by rider error or poor course design or an act of God. Until then youâre just arguing for the sake of arguing, at a fellow riderâs expense.
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No one here witnessed it, but itâs ok to note that the record displayed is not reflecting a very well prepared horse. âIâm sorryâ doesnât prevent this from happening again this weekend.
Not to mention the horse is 5 years old for godâs sake.
You can most certainly structure a MER requirement that would have caught this and kept the rider at an appropriate level. Maybe the current structure wouldnât, but thereâs nothing to say that it canât be done.
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I donât have a dog in the fight, but the horse is actually 7 years old. The article is wrong.
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The USEA registration says âFoal of 2019â.
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Was going to say the same thing.
That saidâŠ
https://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=10115326®istry=T
Songandapsalm doesnât have a foal of record in 2019.
Someone fudged up the horse registration. On purpose or not, who knows.
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But Training is described as:
âan elementary examination of competitors and horses with some experience
and trainingâ
It is open to horse 4 years of age or older.
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Wouldnât 2019 make it four, not five, so that does not work either.
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