I think I said this perviously upthread, but I really learned a lot from the inquests they published after the unfortunate deaths in Australia. I think it showed a lot of things we can do better, and it demonstrated HOW things would have changed had we had certain resources.
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Both the FEI and British Eventing publish annual data on safety. Fences are regularly analysed and modified to reduce injury. The question that should perhaps be asked is why isnāt that same depth of data and analysis published by USEA?
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Iām off to see if I can find these. But I would agree, why is USEA so far behind? Funding? Pushback from members? USHJA style āit is what it is now shut up and pay us if you want to playā?
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The USEA does have ongoing research: https://useventing.com/safety-education/safety/research-studies
You can help fund it through the USEA Foundation directing the payment:
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A horse died over from a rotational fall over a training height fence a week ago, and you want to tout how great safety has gotten as of late.
ok.
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Iāll check that out too. I donāt necessarily want to support just frangible tech - I want published, publicly available data on fatal and injurious fences in competition. Iād support THAT with dollars, if I was confident weād actually get to see it.
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Do you know why I dislike generalizations so much? Because it makes it to easy to stop looking for the causes of the problem and any potential solutions. You keep offering making the jumps fall down as a solution to making eventing safer but what happens the the first time a horse gets injured at a jump ā that falls downā ? What will the solution be then?
You are right there are no guarantees when it comes to horses and at the end of the day itās up to each of us as individuals to decide how much risk we are willing to take. You have made it very clear you are not willing to take the risks that the higher levels of eventing ask for and that is 100 % fine . Itās also okay to say I am going to mitigate the risk as much as possible and enjoy the sport of eventing. I think you should also remember that many people on this thread have worked hard to make this sport safer.
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Back when I evented in 00ās this would be a Prelim question. In training we did have combinations, but they were inviting. Now I see more combinations and skinnies that we never had back then. Level creep is real, but is it necessary?
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That is not what Blugal said at all.
I have a question. Why havenāt you asked about what role the course designer and the TD played in this? They ā two highly trained professionals ā believed this fence combination was safe. Are they in the wrong?
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Iām also having trouble understanding how ALL amateurs are morons barely getting around but pros can vary from up down instructors to Boyd Martin.
I know quite a few amateurs who are more experienced and better riders than pros. The idea of banning an amateur from going Training on a 5yo because theyāre amateurs makes no sense.
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Agreed. Especially since this poster says trotting small logs isnāt safe. Itās hard to make a 18 inch log fall down, so I donāt understand the thought.
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@endlessclimb I am secure in the knowledge that I have taken, and continue to take, actions to actually make the sport safer, and put my money where my mouth is, rather than just a person who āasks questionsā on the internet.
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Iāve been away from eventing for a jillion years and I havenāt waded through this entire thread but the recent comments have me wondering - does USEA publish stats on how many horses ran at various levels in a given year?
And did I see a bit upthread that USEA does not publish stats on how many falls, how many rider deaths, how many horse deaths occurred at each level? Or did I misinterpret something?
Basically I am curious about percentages - how many horses ran a Training Level XC last year at recognized USEA events, how many fell, how many were killed, how many riders were killed, how many riders were seriously injured to the point of needing hospitalization for say one week or more?
Are those kind of figures available?
(And it would also be interesting to know those numbers for unrecognized competitions.)
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Yes, and I watched two horses break their legs and get pts in a turnout that was completely flat. Your argument is irrelevant. Things happen to horses just like catastrophic things happen to people. People still die in car accidents yet brands say that their cars are the safestā¦
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Your lack of experience shines through this comment and I have a really hard time entertaining the point youāre trying to make because of it.
I will preface my next comment by assuring you I am a huge proponent of frangible pins and MIM clips and thank God they worked as they should everyday when I go outside and see my horse hanging out happily in the field (We were being chased by a loose dog on course at what was supposed to be our last Prelim before our first FEI, my horse ran fearfully and there was an interruption in our line of communication, but it was too late for me to pull up). I digressā¦
Fences falling down will not eliminate all risks and isnāt going to fix everything. In many scenarios, implementing frangible technology would be an irresponsible allocation of resources that could be better spent towards other avenues to improve our understanding of how we can improve our courses.
Weāre never going to fix it all though because there are too many variables out of our control. There will always, always be a risk factor involved anytime we swing a leg over.
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If you want to hear the USEAās national safety update in 2023, go to this page, scroll to last video, the USās update by Jon Holling starts at the 1:00 (one hour) mark.
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Here is a doc with national federation stats of starters and horse falls from 2013 thru 2022:
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That document is just for FEI events - yes?
I am deeply interested in knowledgeable peopleās input and experience around making eventing safer for all involved, all the while knowing no horse sport can ever be 100% safe.
I have no interest in strident railbirds frothing about how simple it would be to make it 100% safe. Railing against and fighting with knowledgeable people doesnāt accomplish anything at all for the sport at the end of the day.
Itās just fighting to fight. Iāve got my narcissistic dad in my life for that role, lol.
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It sounds like some riders did question this combo to the TD before XC started. And then the first horse on the course suffers a fatal injury? This does not look good.
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