What shocks me is people think that eventing or any equestrian sport is “safe” Lets face it, your strapping yourself on to a thousand pound animal and galloping at fences possibly higher than you. But we do this sport for the same reason people run full speed at each other and crash their heads together, or jump out of a plane and skydive. We do this because we love the sport, although the sport can be made safer through frangible devices, and course modifications we all need to realize this sport will never be considered safe.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8665743]
54 in 18.5 years works out to slightly less than 3 per year. That’s still too many, but it’s also not quite the end of the world. Especially since the number of starts has increased dramatically.
BTW, OP, would you be able to break down the lists by year?[/QUOTE]
How do you want me to list it? The years are shown, but I can edit it.
[QUOTE=RAyers;8667918]
To comment on something else you mentioned, many hard sciences are quite familiar with statistical probabilities. Hence why we have fields of statistical thermodynamics or statistical quantum physics. They deal with insanely low probability occurs few and outcomes.[/QUOTE]
I wanted to pull this out to emphasize, because this is an excellent & important point. Natural systems, unpredictable bodies, animal behaviour, while wildly complex & variable, absolutely can be modeled, statistically analyzed, etc (my Master’s thesis was building a series of models using habitat variables to predict the presence & persistence of populations of a federally Threatened freshwater species that is only found in the upper Cumberland watershed of KY/TN). Not only does my research involve wildlife (mostly imperiled species in very low numbers), but we also work with massive spatial & hydrological models. We can create 3D dynamic mathematical & graphical models of entire watersheds or the behaviour of individuals animals or gene flow within & between populations/species. And in endangered species in a large river, probabilities get insanely low when you have an effective population size of 40 animals (calculated using 10 years of mark-recapture data involving thousands of person-hours of samping effort).
And not only is it definitely hard science, it continues to grow in both its capabilities & sophistication. Natural systems do indeed contain variables that we can never control & there is an intuitive undercurrent (no pun intended) that’s a little bit art to how they function, but even that can be, and is, built into your research. That’s why it’s critical for us to be meticulous about how we ask our questions, design our approach, collect our data, & interpret said data (not directed at you, WD, just wanted to share for others). And including confidence intervals.
And although I work for a state resource agency, none of my projects are executed or funded by myself/my agency alone. Partnerships & stakeholders are more than just buzzwords - it takes a village, to be cliche, to do any of it. Federal/state agencies, NGOs, citizens, museums, universities, educators, volunteers - all are close collaborators, allowing us to leverage funding from a variety of sources as well as share resources.
Which is why one of my career mantras is, “Just because it’s hard doesn’t mean it’s impossible.”
Success in emotionally charged situations (which can run high in my job as well, I’ve been threatened with a gun more than once due to many misconceptions) often depends on volunteers getting together to push the metaphorical boulder. Perhaps that can take the form of helping to set up a group to independently attack the funding issue?
I am not an event rider, but I know a lot of you. I am one of those people who have turned away event riders when they want to come and try a horse I have for sale. Sorry this horse is not for sale to you. Of course if I sell a horse to an owner whom I deem will take appropriate care of my horse, this person may fail to do so or they may sell the horse down the road to an event person, a different “bad” home, the horse may end up in the auction yard etc, etc. But I believe that selling your horse to an eventing home is irresponsible.
If some of you want to take on a reckless disregard for your own life and limb, have at it. I think this is crazy irresponsible if you have dependent children but I suppose I cannot stop you. I do think it should be considered child abuse to push your kids into eventing when it is simply too dangerous and reasonable people would not expose their kids to this risk. Kids like horses are not capable of appreciating the risk and once they are old enough to get it, they like you adult event riders may already be too hooked to see clearly and get out.
I also think that eventing as a sport should be eliminated, as should horse racing, bull fighting, calf roping and more. People have evolved past being barbarians, and horses deserve better.
Eventing people you can justify your sport any of the ways you always do- that all horse sports are dangerous, that you could just as well be taken out by a bus while crossing the street, that your horse could just as easily break a leg in turnout, that your horse just loves cross country, that you are a safer, better more careful rider, that you only ride at prelim, or whatever. I am not buying any of it.
Eventing is a hell of a lot more dangerous than dressage. The EMTs get very little work at dressage shows. At the HJ shows you usually have some spills and an injury here and there but very rarely is anyone dying. World class event horses are a lot cheaper than world class Dressage or Jumping horses in part because they are more expendible and frankly less valued. Those of you who only ride at the lower levels and don’t feel like you are unreasonably risking yourself or your horse, that may or may not be true. However, the problem that I have with you if that you are by your mere participation at the lower levels supporting the upper level by attending the events, training with the upper level trainers, buying their horses, buying the sponsors Koolaid and thus perpetuating the continued unfair treatment and abuse of the horse that do get killed out there. If my horse breaks his leg in turn out and I have him turned out in a proper pasture with safe fencing etc that is an unfortunate tragic accident of which I should feel no guilt. If I put a horse that quite frankly cannot appreciate the risk at all in a dangerous cross country course and said horse breaks his neck or leg or whatever, this is not a freak accident but a eventuality that I as a rider caused and should quite frankly feel HUGE guilt about. For your adreline greed event riders these horses are getting killed. You are culpible. Again if you are over 18 and want to risk your own life, have at it. But please do it in a sport or asinine activity that only risks your life- street luge, jumping off a sheer rock cliff on skis etc.
It pisses me off that Eventing is in the Olympics. The Olympics should be a venue for classy sports not ones where it is not totally unusual for a horse or rider or both to die. It is the most barbaric sport in the Olympics in my opinion. Why don’t they throw in bull fighting or a gun shootout where they litter the field with baby farm animals.
The average person does not know squat about eventing. I have a strong belief that if they did they would not deem the rate of injuries and deaths as acceptable. I see the writing on the wall. It is only a matter of time before Eventing fades and dissappears. I am hoping this happens in my lifetime.
Wanted to ad that Fox Hunting is also totally barbaric. Just the concept of it. There is not the outcry about it that there is with Eventing because it is not an Olympic sport and flies under the radar. We reasonable horse people of other disciplines do not read about it on a regular basis like we do with Eventing.
[QUOTE=kkj;8668171]
I am not an event rider, but I know a lot of you. I am one of those people who have turned away event riders when they want to come and try a horse I have for sale. Sorry this horse is not for sale to you. Of course if I sell a horse to an owner whom I deem will take appropriate care of my horse, this person may fail to do so or they may sell the horse down the road to an event person, a different “bad” home, the horse may end up in the auction yard etc, etc. But I believe that selling your horse to an eventing home is irresponsible.
If some of you want to take on a reckless disregard for your own life and limb, have at it. I think this is crazy irresponsible if you have dependent children but I suppose I cannot stop you. I do think it should be considered child abuse to push your kids into eventing when it is simply too dangerous and reasonable people would not expose their kids to this risk. Kids like horses are not capable of appreciating the risk and once they are old enough to get it, they like you adult event riders may already be too hooked to see clearly and get out.
I also think that eventing as a sport should be eliminated, as should horse racing, bull fighting, calf roping and more. People have evolved past being barbarians, and horses deserve better.
Eventing people you can justify your sport any of the ways you always do- that all horse sports are dangerous, that you could just as well be taken out by a bus while crossing the street, that your horse could just as easily break a leg in turnout, that your horse just loves cross country, that you are a safer, better more careful rider, that you only ride at prelim, or whatever. I am not buying any of it.
Eventing is a hell of a lot more dangerous than dressage. The EMTs get very little work at dressage shows. At the HJ shows you usually have some spills and an injury here and there but very rarely is anyone dying. World class event horses are a lot cheaper than world class Dressage or Jumping horses in part because they are more expendible and frankly less valued. Those of you who only ride at the lower levels and don’t feel like you are unreasonably risking yourself or your horse, that may or may not be true. However, the problem that I have with you if that you are by your mere participation at the lower levels supporting the upper level by attending the events, training with the upper level trainers, buying their horses, buying the sponsors Koolaid and thus perpetuating the continued unfair treatment and abuse of the horse that do get killed out there. If my horse breaks his leg in turn out and I have him turned out in a proper pasture with safe fencing etc that is an unfortunate tragic accident of which I should feel no guilt. If I put a horse that quite frankly cannot appreciate the risk at all in a dangerous cross country course and said horse breaks his neck or leg or whatever, this is not a freak accident but a eventuality that I as a rider caused and should quite frankly feel HUGE guilt about. For your adreline greed event riders these horses are getting killed. You are culpible. Again if you are over 18 and want to risk your own life, have at it. But please do it in a sport or asinine activity that only risks your life- street luge, jumping off a sheer rock cliff on skis etc.
It pisses me off that Eventing is in the Olympics. The Olympics should be a venue for classy sports not ones where it is not totally unusual for a horse or rider or both to die. It is the most barbaric sport in the Olympics in my opinion. Why don’t they throw in bull fighting or a gun shootout where they litter the field with baby farm animals.
The average person does not know squat about eventing. I have a strong belief that if they did they would not deem the rate of injuries and deaths as acceptable. I see the writing on the wall. It is only a matter of time before Eventing fades and dissappears. I am hoping this happens in my lifetime.[/QUOTE]
It seems like you’re also one of those “average person[s] that doesn’t know squat about eventing”.
LL eventing is, statistically as unsafe as any other riding discipline. Statistically I wouldn’t be surprised to see HJ has the same amount of deaths in the sport as LL eventing as most deaths happen at home/during training. In my circle I have known more H/J people that were killed than eventing. It’s the UL eventing that is inherently more dangerous.
Beowulf I get what you are saying but the people who do LL eventing are supporting UL eventing. UL eventing cannot exist without LL eventing. LL people are guilty of supporting the sport that is killing people and horses at an unacceptable rate.
[QUOTE=Littleluck55;8667779]
9 year old girl was killed last month on a hunt
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/nine-year-old-girl-dies-hunting-accident-531556[/QUOTE]
“Believed to have been kicked off her horse by another horse.”
Also those of you who put your kids in LL eventing are perpetuating UL eventing and the unacceptable rate of deaths of horses and riders because UL event riders come from LL event riders. The kids who start out eventing, some of them will be good and brave and will become the UL riders of the future and go into the pool of people from which the future fatalities will occur. UL event riders come from once LL event riders almost always and very rarely from riders who grew up riding strictly dressage or show jumping. Usually as people age and if they choose to switch disciplines, they move to show jumping and dressage from eventing and not the other direction.
How many of you LL riders never watch the UL riders at events? How many of you don’t train or clinic with UL riders? Complicity.
[QUOTE=kkj;8668242]
Also those of you who put your kids in LL eventing are perpetuating UL eventing and the unacceptable rate of deaths of horses and riders because UL event riders come from LL event riders. The kids who start out eventing, some of them will be good and brave and will become the UL riders of the future and go into the pool of people from which the future fatalities will occur. UL event riders come from once LL event riders almost always and very rarely from riders who grew up riding strictly dressage or show jumping. Usually as people age and if they choose to switch disciplines, they move to show jumping and dressage from eventing and not the other direction.
How many of you LL riders never watch the UL riders at events? How many of you don’t train or clinic with UL riders? Complicity.[/QUOTE]
kkj, you should be so lucky to sell your horse to an eventing home. I assume you prefer to sell them as hunters/jumpers or equitation horses. As such, and I’m going to be as stereotypically moronic and judgemental as you are here, you must wish your horses to spend all day in their stalls other than the hours in which they are being lunged to death or doped. Living out of a tiny show stall for weeks at a time is also great. You must like them to compete so drugged that they can barely heave themselves over the fence. Jumping after being nerved is also super fun. You must want them to be treated like sports equipment and dumped at the slightest hint of trouble. You’d also like them to end their competitive career donated to a college equestrian team because the owners had to squeeze every last $ out of the horse. And then when the equestrian team has no use for it, auctioned for whatever it can bring. And then on a one way trip to a foreign slaughter house. But anything is better than eventing right? You’re an idiot.
As an aside, I recognize that with more money in the sport, eventing is heading down the ugly route of horses as equipment but we’re not there yet.
[QUOTE=kkj;8668171]
I am not an event rider, but I know a lot of you. I am one of those people who have turned away event riders when they want to come and try a horse I have for sale. Sorry this horse is not for sale to you. Of course if I sell a horse to an owner whom I deem will take appropriate care of my horse, this person may fail to do so or they may sell the horse down the road to an event person, a different “bad” home, the horse may end up in the auction yard etc, etc. But I believe that selling your horse to an eventing home is irresponsible.
If some of you want to take on a reckless disregard for your own life and limb, have at it. I think this is crazy irresponsible if you have dependent children but I suppose I cannot stop you. I do think it should be considered child abuse to push your kids into eventing when it is simply too dangerous and reasonable people would not expose their kids to this risk. Kids like horses are not capable of appreciating the risk and once they are old enough to get it, they like you adult event riders may already be too hooked to see clearly and get out.
I also think that eventing as a sport should be eliminated, as should horse racing, bull fighting, calf roping and more. People have evolved past being barbarians, and horses deserve better.
Eventing people you can justify your sport any of the ways you always do- that all horse sports are dangerous, that you could just as well be taken out by a bus while crossing the street, that your horse could just as easily break a leg in turnout, that your horse just loves cross country, that you are a safer, better more careful rider, that you only ride at prelim, or whatever. I am not buying any of it.
Eventing is a hell of a lot more dangerous than dressage. The EMTs get very little work at dressage shows. At the HJ shows you usually have some spills and an injury here and there but very rarely is anyone dying. World class event horses are a lot cheaper than world class Dressage or Jumping horses in part because they are more expendible and frankly less valued. Those of you who only ride at the lower levels and don’t feel like you are unreasonably risking yourself or your horse, that may or may not be true. However, the problem that I have with you if that you are by your mere participation at the lower levels supporting the upper level by attending the events, training with the upper level trainers, buying their horses, buying the sponsors Koolaid and thus perpetuating the continued unfair treatment and abuse of the horse that do get killed out there. If my horse breaks his leg in turn out and I have him turned out in a proper pasture with safe fencing etc that is an unfortunate tragic accident of which I should feel no guilt. If I put a horse that quite frankly cannot appreciate the risk at all in a dangerous cross country course and said horse breaks his neck or leg or whatever, this is not a freak accident but a eventuality that I as a rider caused and should quite frankly feel HUGE guilt about. For your adreline greed event riders these horses are getting killed. You are culpible. Again if you are over 18 and want to risk your own life, have at it. But please do it in a sport or asinine activity that only risks your life- street luge, jumping off a sheer rock cliff on skis etc.
It pisses me off that Eventing is in the Olympics. The Olympics should be a venue for classy sports not ones where it is not totally unusual for a horse or rider or both to die. It is the most barbaric sport in the Olympics in my opinion. Why don’t they throw in bull fighting or a gun shootout where they litter the field with baby farm animals.
The average person does not know squat about eventing. I have a strong belief that if they did they would not deem the rate of injuries and deaths as acceptable. I see the writing on the wall. It is only a matter of time before Eventing fades and dissappears. I am hoping this happens in my lifetime.[/QUOTE]
Yikes, you’re pretty hard. From your reasoning no horses should be ridden because anytime you put a leg over a horse you are endangering it in a way that it would not endanger itself in the field.
Nowadays horses are specifically either pets or used in sport/recreation of some sort. There is not really any place else they are needed. If we don’t use them in sport they become might expensive pets. Expensive pets tend to have a very small pool of people that can afford or desire them.
I prefer to have horses in my life, therefore I’ll use them as sport horses (until I retire them). What sports I do, or have done (I’ve chosen eventing, endurance, dressage and foxhunting, primarily) I prepare my horse in a logical manner so that it is well cared for, fit, and ready to do the job I ask. I make sure it is capable and not at the top edge of its scope (learned that the hard way). Every single sport has it’s shameful side, and we need to continue to keep the welfare of the horse in our plain sight, but to not use them is not something I’m willing to do.
[QUOTE=kkj;8668171]
I am not an event rider, but I know a lot of you. I am one of those people who have turned away event riders when they want to come and try a horse I have for sale. Sorry this horse is not for sale to you. Of course if I sell a horse to an owner whom I deem will take appropriate care of my horse, this person may fail to do so or they may sell the horse down the road to an event person, a different “bad” home, the horse may end up in the auction yard etc, etc. But I believe that selling your horse to an eventing home is irresponsible.
If some of you want to take on a reckless disregard for your own life and limb, have at it. I think this is crazy irresponsible if you have dependent children but I suppose I cannot stop you. I do think it should be considered child abuse to push your kids into eventing when it is simply too dangerous and reasonable people would not expose their kids to this risk. Kids like horses are not capable of appreciating the risk and once they are old enough to get it, they like you adult event riders may already be too hooked to see clearly and get out.
I also think that eventing as a sport should be eliminated, as should horse racing, bull fighting, calf roping and more. People have evolved past being barbarians, and horses deserve better.
Eventing people you can justify your sport any of the ways you always do- that all horse sports are dangerous, that you could just as well be taken out by a bus while crossing the street, that your horse could just as easily break a leg in turnout, that your horse just loves cross country, that you are a safer, better more careful rider, that you only ride at prelim, or whatever. I am not buying any of it.
Eventing is a hell of a lot more dangerous than dressage. The EMTs get very little work at dressage shows. At the HJ shows you usually have some spills and an injury here and there but very rarely is anyone dying. World class event horses are a lot cheaper than world class Dressage or Jumping horses in part because they are more expendible and frankly less valued. Those of you who only ride at the lower levels and don’t feel like you are unreasonably risking yourself or your horse, that may or may not be true. However, the problem that I have with you if that you are by your mere participation at the lower levels supporting the upper level by attending the events, training with the upper level trainers, buying their horses, buying the sponsors Koolaid and thus perpetuating the continued unfair treatment and abuse of the horse that do get killed out there. If my horse breaks his leg in turn out and I have him turned out in a proper pasture with safe fencing etc that is an unfortunate tragic accident of which I should feel no guilt. If I put a horse that quite frankly cannot appreciate the risk at all in a dangerous cross country course and said horse breaks his neck or leg or whatever, this is not a freak accident but a eventuality that I as a rider caused and should quite frankly feel HUGE guilt about. For your adreline greed event riders these horses are getting killed. You are culpible. Again if you are over 18 and want to risk your own life, have at it. But please do it in a sport or asinine activity that only risks your life- street luge, jumping off a sheer rock cliff on skis etc.
It pisses me off that Eventing is in the Olympics. The Olympics should be a venue for classy sports not ones where it is not totally unusual for a horse or rider or both to die. It is the most barbaric sport in the Olympics in my opinion. Why don’t they throw in bull fighting or a gun shootout where they litter the field with baby farm animals.
The average person does not know squat about eventing. I have a strong belief that if they did they would not deem the rate of injuries and deaths as acceptable. I see the writing on the wall. It is only a matter of time before Eventing fades and dissappears. I am hoping this happens in my lifetime.[/QUOTE]
Well I’m glad you’re not an eventer. You definitely are not humble.
NCRider hit this one right on the nose. No discipline is better than another. I know a women who was wheelchair bound because she was showing in the hunters and her horse tripped over a 2’3 fence. So as much as I would love to applaud your concern you just come off completely ignorant.
This type of crap doesn’t help build better research and safety, if anything you’re more barbaric with your ancient attitude and blind knowledge about eventers.
Well, you do not know me. If you did you would know that my horse gets better healthcare than I do. At the slightest issue I have a vet over to ensure he is okay, because what we do together depends on him being in top health.
My horse is fitter than me (sad to say). I dare say he is fitter then the horse you may have sold to some western rider that either barely works with the horse or take it out for quick intense moments without regard on how hard it is on their body. While there are exceptions, Eventers take very good care of their horses, because it is the partnership that is most important in our sport. Even most ULRs understand that. Get to know Micheal Jung or Colleen Rutledge, Becky Holder or Denny Emerson.
No, you really don’t know Eventers.
As to the idea that lower level riders “support”
This is a false equivalence type argument, steeped in hyperbole and not fact. I could make a similar argument that hunters buying guns for hunting support the mass killers mowing down people in schools, theaters and offices. That connection is not even close to valid.
Lower Level riders may provide some support to ULRs, but clearly not as much as you think or in the way you express. To ensure I am a good, safe horseman I need good training so of course I may turn to an ULR for lessons. My taking lessons or going to clinics does little to support what they do at the upper levels. My understanding is that they get most of their money from the buying, training, and selling of horses along with any prize money they can get. They get paid by owners to ride horses. Personally I don’t even pay much attention to specific sponsors of riders and frankly, sponsors really don’t want to see their logo displayed on a dead horse or rider so it is in their best interest to not support Riders that may cause them bad publicity.
I find any death in this sport abhorrent, horse or rider, but the solution is not to ban or kill the sport, but study why accidents happen, make adjustments, and change the culture of the sport from the macho ‘kick on’ mentality of extreme risk, to that of showing off the amazing capability of the horse’s body and brain. To wit, I’d say that Event horses are some of the best trained, well taken care of, and capable horses in the equine world.
Are there bad apple humans that abuse the horse for greed and fame? Sure, but you’ll find that in any sport. From my view in the cheap seats, rare are the bad apples in Eventing and because they are rare, they stand out more. Yes, this sport needs to change, not the way the FEI wants, but I’d say the way the majority of Upper and Lower level riders want, a showcase that honors the grace, power, quickness, and endurance of the horse without intentionally causing it harm.
This is not a perfect world, idiots will always exists, but before you condemn a sport and the people in it, take more time to truly “know” them.
[QUOTE=LAZ;8668382]
Yikes, you’re pretty hard. From your reasoning no horses should be ridden because anytime you put a leg over a horse you are endangering it in a way that it would not endanger itself in the field.
Nowadays horses are specifically either pets or used in sport/recreation of some sort. There is not really any place else they are needed. If we don’t use them in sport they become might expensive pets. Expensive pets tend to have a very small pool of people that can afford or desire them.
I prefer to have horses in my life, therefore I’ll use them as sport horses (until I retire them). What sports I do, or have done (I’ve chosen eventing, endurance, dressage and foxhunting, primarily) I prepare my horse in a logical manner so that it is well cared for, fit, and ready to do the job I ask. I make sure it is capable and not at the top edge of its scope (learned that the hard way). Every single sport has it’s shameful side, and we need to continue to keep the welfare of the horse in our plain sight, but to not use them is not something I’m willing to do.[/QUOTE]
Not at all. I think there is a line to be drawn. I believe the average reasonable person would be OK with horses being used for dressage or HJ but not put at risk of death in upper level eventing.
Also I know many LL event riders who do take great care of their horses and their horses have great lives. But if you have super athletic talented brave horse for sale and an eventing person gets ahold of it they may not stop competing it at the LL not matter what they say when they buy your horse. I would feel beyond guilty if a former horse of mine got killed doing cross country. And I stand by what i said UL eventing cannot exist without LL eventing. Whether you like it or not LL riders supports UL ones.
[QUOTE=JP60;8668446]
Well, you do not know me. If you did you would know that my horse gets better healthcare than I do. At the slightest issue I have a vet over to ensure he is okay, because what we do together depends on him being in top health.
My horse is fitter than me (sad to say). I dare say he is fitter then the horse you may have sold to some western rider that either barely works with the horse or take it out for quick intense moments without regard on how hard it is on their body. While there are exceptions, Eventers take very good care of their horses, because it is the partnership that is most important in our sport. Even most ULRs understand that. Get to know Micheal Jung or Colleen Rutledge, Becky Holder or Denny Emerson.
No, you really don’t know Eventers.
As to the idea that lower level riders “support”
This is a false equivalence type argument, steeped in hyperbole and not fact. I could make a similar argument that hunters buying guns for hunting support the mass killers mowing down people in schools, theaters and offices. That connection is not even close to valid.
Lower Level riders may provide some support to ULRs, but clearly not as much as you think or in the way you express. To ensure I am a good, safe horseman I need good training so of course I may turn to an ULR for lessons. My taking lessons or going to clinics does little to support what they do at the upper levels. My understanding is that they get most of their money from the buying, training, and selling of horses along with any prize money they can get. They get paid by owners to ride horses. Personally I don’t even pay much attention to specific sponsors of riders and frankly, sponsors really don’t want to see their logo displayed on a dead horse or rider so it is in their best interest to not support Riders that may cause them bad publicity.
I find any death in this sport abhorrent, horse or rider, but the solution is not to ban or kill the sport, but study why accidents happen, make adjustments, and change the culture of the sport from the macho ‘kick on’ mentality of extreme risk, to that of showing off the amazing capability of the horse’s body and brain. To wit, I’d say that Event horses are some of the best trained, well taken care of, and capable horses in the equine world.
Are there bad apple humans that abuse the horse for greed and fame? Sure, but you’ll find that in any sport. From my view in the cheap seats, rare are the bad apples in Eventing and because they are rare, they stand out more. Yes, this sport needs to change, not the way the FEI wants, but I’d say the way the majority of Upper and Lower level riders want, a showcase that honors the grace, power, quickness, and endurance of the horse without intentionally causing it harm.
This is not a perfect world, idiots will always exists, but before you condemn a sport and the people in it, take more time to truly “know” them.[/QUOTE]
I don’t care if you think I am an idiot. I think people who do UL eventing or let their children are idiots. The risk is much greater than my risk riding dressage. Too high in my opinion. And I feel that we are like our horses parents and because they cannot appreciate the risk we must not put them in unnecessarily risky spots. UL eventing is unnecessarilyrisky in my opinion.
KKJ, I’d like to know what you think about the discussion in the thread I started:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?491939-Important-data-about-TBI-in-Equestrian-sport
Focusing on your concern for human injuries, I think it is worth calling attention to the fact that good medical evidence points to all equestrian activity as being extremely high risk when compared to all other sports in this country. The vast majority of riders injured or killed are not riding in competition at all, much less eventing. I’m not arguing that eventing isn’t dangerous, or even statistically more dangerous than other equestrian disciplines. However, I do think it is naïve to think that you are making a “safe” choice by choosing to participate in dressage/HJ/etc and avoid eventing. The risk reduction involved in that decision is not actually very large.
Obviously, adults have the right to engage in any risky sport that they like within legal bounds. I just make this point because I think most equestrians underestimate the risks they take… I know I did until I became very educated/experienced in the field of trauma.
Thanks Blackwly. I agree all equestrian sports are dangerous. I also think that it is a risk that a lot of the general public would not take. I know any time I am riding a horse or working around it, I am taking a risk. In my risk assessment, I am OK with the risk that I am taking riding dressage on a talented, sane, sound animal, while I have 30 plus years of good training and skills and wear a helmet. I could get myself killed. It is very unlikely though. For 8 years I was at the same very good dressage barn. In those 8 years only two people got bucked off. One off of a young crazy mare and one lady without the best skills off a horse that spooked. Neither of these resulted in anything but bruises. For the last 4 years I have been at another very good dressage barn and only one person has been bucked off- a lady who was rehabbing a horse. She got some bruises and that is it. Before this barn was a dressage barn it was an eventing barn with a world class trainer. The barn owner told me there were a ton of spills, broken bones injuries etc. The barn owner was very happy to get dressage people in because her insurance went way down. No jumping = cheaper insurance. Also there is a reason that insuring a dressage horse is cheaper than insuring a HJ or Event horse.
Maybe most accidents don’t happen in competition, but how often do you read a headline about a dressage rider who is killed in competition. In eventing some of the highest level riders are getting killed. That is a huge problem. Some of the best horses are getting killed. Again a huge problem. You guys can deflect this all back on me but I stand by everything that I said.
[QUOTE=kkj;8668510]
I don’t care if you think I am an idiot. I think people who do UL eventing or let their children are idiots. The risk is much greater than my risk riding dressage. Too high in my opinion. And I feel that we are like our horses parents and because they cannot appreciate the risk we must not put them in unnecessarily risky spots. UL eventing is unnecessarilyrisky in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I was NOT referring to you as an idiot.
I was referring to those who do stupid things. I see you as one who cares about horses, but is misguided or misjudging others.
Found this eye opening when reading a little spat on Facebook today under the comments.
Kate Chadderton Each year in America 22 people die skateboarding. 54 people die skiing. 113 people die in accidents climbing ladders. 16 people die decorating Christmas trees. Each year. In America. I propose outlawing all of these activities.
I ski, yes skiing can be very dangerous (back country, racing, free skiing and aerials) but very few people are dying in sanctioned competition. That is the difference. That’s is what the “sport” must address.
