Just read (via Facebook) that there was another eventing fatality yesterday via rotational fall - an Argentinian rider named Santiago Zone.
#stoprotationalfalls
when are the powers that be going to start taking human and equine deaths on course, seriously?
formula one cleaned up their act YEARS ago, when is the fei/related orgs going to stop blaming ârare eventsâ?
and why are humans still paying, and putting, themselves and their horses at risk? (and all for the sake of a piece of ribbon)
RIP the latest victim.
your poor family having to deal with bringing home your body 
Thatâs 5 riders killed this year, and the yearâs not over yet.
Five riders deaths is the most on record since 2008.
To celebrate this sad, unacceptable statistic, I propose that we change the title of this thread from âWhat Are We Doing?â to âWTF ARE WE DOING?â
[QUOTE=JER;8872646]
Thatâs 5 riders killed this year, and the yearâs not over yet.
Five riders deaths is the most on record since 2008.
To celebrate this sad, unacceptable statistic, I propose that we change the title of this thread from âWhat Are We Doing?â to âWTF ARE WE DOING?â[/QUOTE]
DONE.
Can someone share the link to the latest fatality? I canât find anything online. Yet again another example of how hard it is to determine the fences etc involved.
Just a side note - was 2008 not the year that kind of shook the community to make changesâŠand yet all the changes we have made have little difference. Back to drawing boardâŠ
Do the people that ride those courses read what this man writes? Are they comfortable with his line of thinking - that he believes THEY do not respect his fences and that THEY are the problem?
F1 started cleaning up their act DECADES ago and it spread to other major motor sports groups, slowly, but they are continually investigating wrecks and improving what can be improved. Ironic that it seems more riders have suffered the consequences then drivers at recognized competitions lately and youâd think that since horses cannot be rebuilt, thereâd be more attention paid to that aspect. Guess notâŠ
[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8872990]
DONE.
Can someone share the link to the latest fatality? I canât find anything online. Yet again another example of how hard it is to determine the fences etc involved.
Just a side note - was 2008 not the year that kind of shook the community to make changesâŠand yet all the changes we have made have little difference. Back to drawing boardâŠ[/QUOTE]
https://www.facebook.com/eventingnation/posts/1383634944987934
I am becoming deadened to this, it is so awful. Reading that quick article from EN left me feeling some parallels with the gun violence in the US. The article ended âthoughts and prayers to all who knew himâ and it sounded just like the aftermath of a mass shooting event. WTF is going to actually be done? I keep asking myself what it will take to get enough people (or the right people) to DEMAND change and to REFUSE to accept the status quo.
The EN article doesnât state the competition level, but does say he started competing at the one star level this year. Several of the other deaths this year were at the prelim and one star level. Does anyone know how many of the five deaths this year were at that level?
I just donât think that the mentality in course design of âletâs make fences less forgiving so that riders have to ride them more carefullyâ is doing anything to make the sport safer in any way.
For the sake of comparing statistics, has information been readily available about fatalities and catastrophic injuries in all events in all countries (such as the ones in Russia and Argentina) prior to this year, or was it mostly just the bigger events and countries with a larger eventing scene? Just wondering if that is playing in to the statistics here, or if there truly has been that large of an increase from previous years.
No official statement about the fatality or the horseâs condition has been released at this time.
And here is part of the problem. No accountability at even a news reporting level. As blugal rightly points out we give prayers and thoughts, wrings hands and walk on to the next death feeling good about ourselves for caring.
Even car accidents get more press then what we are told when these moments happen. Until there is accountability there can be no change. Knowledge is power and at the moment, the general Eventing public (at the least) is being treated like children in that we cannot be told even how it happened, not to find fault with the rider or horse, but to allow us to digest, process, and perhaps make our own changes. What happens when people start to say "Iâm not doing this course if it has open oxers or corners, too many accuracy questions with an unreal OT that pushes riders and horses past a safe point. Fences should not punish a mistake with death.
Change only happens when those in power either accept responsibility for change or have it thrust upon them by a public that starts to turn their backs.
[QUOTE=findeight;8873035]
youâd think that since horses cannot be rebuilt, thereâd be more attention paid to that aspect. Guess notâŠ[/QUOTE]
BUT EVENTERS LOOOOVE THEIR HORSES!
Donât they? Or at least theyâre quick to tell you that. And point to other disciplines like h/j or dressage and how they donât have the horsemanship of eventers.
Yet the undeniable truth is that eventers are the ones with a body count, both horse and human.
[QUOTE=JER;8873456]
BUT EVENTERS LOOOOVE THEIR HORSES!
Donât they? Or at least theyâre quick to tell you that. And point to other disciplines like h/j or dressage and how they donât have the horsemanship of eventers.
Yet the undeniable truth is that eventers are the ones with a body count, both horse and human.[/QUOTE]
That is undeniable truthâŠdo our leaders care?
[QUOTE=JER;8873456]
BUT EVENTERS LOOOOVE THEIR HORSES!
Donât they? Or at least theyâre quick to tell you that. And point to other disciplines like h/j or dressage and how they donât have the horsemanship of eventers.
Yet the undeniable truth is that eventers are the ones with a body count, both horse and human.[/QUOTE]
Wise remarksâŠdo horses become more disposable to their owners and riders as the stakes go up? I think so in many cases across the board, but the results are more obvious in Eventing.
This has nothing to do with whether or not/how much eventers love their horses. Loving your horse does not preclude participating in dangerous activities with them. Just because people love their children doesnât mean they wonât exceed the speed limit with them in the car. People just like to believe that something bad wonât happen to them, and statistically, theyâre right more often than not.
What I donât like is that often bad accidents are written off as a âfreak occurrenceâ or itâs said that the rider made an error and left at that, when there are inevitably many other contributing factors that could possibly be mitigated. You canât eliminate all risk, but that doesnât mean we need to accept the status quo.
If a plane crashes due to âpilot errorâ that doesnât mean steps wonât be taken to keep it from happening again.
The comments are what gets me. The âriskâ of the sportâŠpart of the gameâŠetc etc.
It doesnt have to be. Why donât we explore options OTHER THAN making fences fall down.
Smaller fences, less sharp angles and skinniesâŠmore enduranceâŠthe answer is out there if we just try and find it.
[QUOTE=findeight;8873474]
do horses become more disposable to their owners and riders as the stakes go up? [/QUOTE]
Not for me.
Last year, when my current best horse was competing at Prelim, I decided to call an end to her XC career. I was too worried about her safety. Most of you know that this mareâs half-sister broke her leg and had to be put down on an Advanced course, so I know firsthand how bad it can be.
So I said âThatâs it. No more XC.â Sheâd come home safe and sound every time but each time out Iâd be questioning whether this was one time too many. Her rider wasnât exactly happy about this because Ziziâs a super horse and was going well, but since then the mare has competed in dressage, jumpers and eventing CTs at Intermediate.
This year, I moved another of my horses to a barn in KY where an FEI carriage driver is based (heâs an school friend of a friend). The farm has driving obstacles scattered about and Iâve watched the driving horses go through them, often quite quickly. I asked the driver guy how often horses die on XC (âmarathonâ they call it) in driving. He said âThey donât. Sometimes thereâll be a tendon injury, but thatâs really about it.â
This surprised me, that you could go XC with a galloping horse and a carriage and do scary things at high speed and not have a death list. A light bulb moment ensued.
The current plan is to bring Zizi up here late this year or early next year and start training her for combined driving. Sheâll get all the challenge of XC, just without the same risks.
Iâm sure this was already asked, but how many of those horses that died had heart attacks?
Iâm not so sure. When you are a one hit wonder team and youâve spent the better part of a horseâs life, or yourâs working together, there may be a lot more consideration in taking your partner up a level that may result in severe damage or death (to both). Iâm working to move up to Training and at one point thought about Prelim, but watching how course design has gotten less forgiving I decided Training is our top.
I can say that since Iâm an amatuer with only one horse that I love dearly. When your top pro rides up to 9 horses in a show, has a string of horses back at the barn, then while I can believe they care about them, their decision making is much different. To one extent, they have created the disposable horse. My Sterling gets hurt, Iâm done. Their one of 3 3* horses gets hurt, on to the next. When Eventers are riding catch horses at top levels, they are not doing it for the love of the sport or the horse, but for the need to make money doing something they are good at. I am not condemning them, but that mentality does reflects upon the sport as a whole and I fear it could get worse before it gets better.
If a plane crashes due to âpilot errorâ that doesnât mean steps wonât be taken to keep it from happening again.
Indeed. And even if they find that it was pilot error, the information is publically reported so other pilots and instructors can learn from others mistakes. Aviation does not hide knowledge, they use it to teach.
On the discussion about horses, I had hoped that the recent death of Liz Hallidayâs horse and her public outspokenness may have had an effect. Perhaps it has. I think it will take high-profile riders, owners, coaches, and the support of their federations, to cause an effective change. I do not have faith in the grass-roots causing the FEI to do anything.
First on the list for me is that the safety task force recently put together by the FEI with David OâConnor at the helm should have everything about it become public. It should have an accountability measure that we can see and follow up on.
Here is what was said about this FEI Risk Management Working Group, when reporting on Nikita Sotskovâs death on Sept. 10th, 2016:
Safety in equestrian sport is a top priority for the FEI and all National Federations, and the FEI is working continuously to make the sport as safe as possible for all athletes, both human and equine. The circumstances of todayâs accident will be fully reviewed.
David OâConnor (USA) has been nominated to chair the FEI Risk Management working group which will focus on coordinating initiatives on a global basis, including technology developments, data and statistics, as well as further educational outreach for athletes, course designers, coaches and technical delegates. The working groupâs remit is to look at all options to minimise risk factors and is in addition to the FEIâs continual work focused on improving safety in the sport.
I have a real problem with the first paragraph, because I havenât seen the âtop priorityâ or the âas safe as possibleâ played out at all.
ETA: well geez, I was going to keep my lips buttoned on this, but now I donât have to. It seems that for riders, NFs, and owners (?), having high-profile series with prize money is far more important than safety. See:
-Event Riders Masters (UK)
-Adequan Gold Cup Signature Series (US)
