just wait until Gambling is allowed - and don’t think it’s not being lobbied for, because it is in both the uk and aust.
deaths will only be topped by doping.
I was catching up on some unread magazines. In an issue of Practical Horseman, Jim Wofford said that, in every case of horse falls, the horse did not have both ears on the fence suggesting the horse was otherwise distracted either by the rider or outside influences at the very time it needed to be fully focused on the fence. Is that accurate?
[QUOTE=tbchick84;8874094]
I was catching up on some unread magazines. In an issue of Practical Horseman, Jim Wofford said that, in every case of horse falls, the horse did not have both ears on the fence suggesting the horse was otherwise distracted either by the rider or outside influences at the very time it needed to be fully focused on the fence. Is that accurate?[/QUOTE]
The horse being distracted or spooking can definitely contribute to falls, but I’d hesitate to say it is the case in every horse fall. A horse that is at the limit of his scope with a rider that gets him to a bad distance over a big solid jump isn’t necessarily distracted, just doesn’t have the physical ability to get himself out of trouble at that point. Or a horse that slips on takeoff/landing, etc.
I’d bet it’s more consistently true with horses that fall over smaller fences at the lower levels.
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I think we need to stop judging refusals/run-outs so harshly. Maybe not in penalties, but in how we think about refusals. The horse that stops instead of scrambling over the jump is potentially saving themselves and/or their rider, in this current climate. Until we figure out how to stop the body count, anyway.
[QUOTE=MNEventer;8874226]
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I think we need to stop judging refusals/run-outs so harshly. Maybe not in penalties, but in how we think about refusals. The horse that stops instead of scrambling over the jump is potentially saving themselves and/or their rider, in this current climate. Until we figure out how to stop the body count, anyway.[/QUOTE]
This will only encourage pairs not ready for the level to try it anyway.
[QUOTE=JP60;8873610]
I’m not so sure. When you are a one hit wonder team and you’ve spent the better part of a horse’s life, or your’s working together, there may be a lot more consideration in taking your partner up a level that may result in severe damage or death (to both). I’m working to move up to Training and at one point thought about Prelim, but watching how course design has gotten less forgiving I decided Training is our top.
I can say that since I’m an amatuer with only one horse that I love dearly. When your top pro rides up to 9 horses in a show, has a string of horses back at the barn, then while I can believe they care about them, their decision making is much different. To one extent, they have created the disposable horse. My Sterling gets hurt, I’m done. Their one of 3 3* horses gets hurt, on to the next. When Eventers are riding catch horses at top levels, they are not doing it for the love of the sport or the horse, but for the need to make money doing something they are good at. I am not condemning them, but that mentality does reflects upon the sport as a whole and I fear it could get worse before it gets better.
Indeed. And even if they find that it was pilot error, the information is publically reported so other pilots and instructors can learn from others mistakes. Aviation does not hide knowledge, they use it to teach.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for saying that as an insider far better then I did as an outsider…but it’s also true in disciplines I have participated in.
I don’t see why we can’t make the fences a bit easier or smaller, and add the endurance portion back to the test. Roads and tracks, or steeplechase. We know the fences that are causing the falls yet we keep using them in hopes to “back the riders off”. Like what kind of thinking is this. This is XC! We are supposed to be galloping out of stride…the whole point of XC originally was to show off the endurance and bravery. Lets get back to that.
[QUOTE=Manahmanah;8874280]
This will only encourage pairs not ready for the level to try it anyway.[/QUOTE]
I’m not certain I understand your logic. MNEventer, to my understanding, was making a point that having a horse refuse or glance off is a much better decision by the horse than attempting to or forcing the horse to make the jump. We all could say at some moment the words “that horse saved my ass”, but as the difficulty increases, the punishment for mistakes becomes severe, I’d rather a horse make a decision that protects both members of the team for afterwards they can revisit what was the problem and try to correct.
if my horse is refusing or glancing off, it does not encourage me to try higher, it may require that I step down and fix what ever problems we are having before moving up again.
[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8874606]
I don’t see why we can’t make the fences a bit easier or smaller, and add the endurance portion back to the test. Roads and tracks, or steeplechase. We know the fences that are causing the falls yet we keep using them in hopes to “back the riders off”. Like what kind of thinking is this. This is XC! We are supposed to be galloping out of stride…the whole point of XC originally was to show off the endurance and bravery. Lets get back to that.[/QUOTE]
These are great suggests (some reflecting my own), but would never even be considered while the sport at the top is being redesigned and managed by those that want more spectator friendly, not team friendly events.
I can imagine a split off of Pros (FEI) and ammies (NO based). Where PROS have their own rules, venues, prizes, manic tests of lunacy to please the crowd and Amateurs or even Non FEI pros (those focused on Lower Levels) with a different set of rules, courses, and missions. Then the idea of changing courses to be more endurance based can be considered as it would be harder for Pros to run multiple horses in one day and maybe the costs could be more contained.
As another post mentioned, change at the Top will not happened from grass roots for we have little to do with it other than watching.
Further to JP60’s post, they already have a system like this in the UK. They have riding club and unaffiliated events going up to Prelim (their Novice) which are cheaper and have their own year-ends etc. There are always articles in their magazines and online asking “should you go affiliated” or “how to make the move to affiliated” etc.
The affiliated shows are so over-subscribed, for the most part, that you enter on a ballot system. I don’t know exactly how this works, but I get the impression that the ULR are somewhat catered to at the top events - for example, you often see pairs that had a bad outing at a CCI entered very quickly in an event the following week or two.
I lost interest in upper level many years ago. I’d love to see something like the old format return. It doesn’t have to be 3 days, but I enjoyed watching steeplechase, so more galloping with smaller jumps. And get rid of those ridiculous skinnies!
[QUOTE=Blugal;8874926]
Further to JP60’s post, they already have a system like this in the UK. They have riding club and unaffiliated events going up to Prelim (their Novice) which are cheaper and have their own year-ends etc. There are always articles in their magazines and online asking “should you go affiliated” or “how to make the move to affiliated” etc.
The affiliated shows are so over-subscribed, for the most part, that you enter on a ballot system. I don’t know exactly how this works, but I get the impression that the ULR are somewhat catered to at the top events - for example, you often see pairs that had a bad outing at a CCI entered very quickly in an event the following week or two.[/QUOTE]
Yeah! I loved these events…and the irony is in the UK many of the BNRs are showing at the riding clubs shows more than the affiliated ones unless they need qualifications.
Maybe the Pros should just invent their own derby style sport hybrid of eventing and the rest of us can go back to having endurance play a bigger factor.
The truth is it was nearly impossible for pros to ride more than two horses when there was the long format. That in itself is so huge in why they don’t want it to return. Plus all that fitness work…takes away from all the training and lessons they do.
[QUOTE=JER;8873511]
Not for me.
The current plan is to bring Zizi up here late this year or early next year and start training her for combined driving. She’ll get all the challenge of XC, just without the same risks.
:)[/QUOTE]
I love this idea! I told my trainer that I might let her do a 1* on my horse when he’s ready (he’s only 5, but she and others think he has upper level potential). But now I am not so sure. Ultimately the goal is for him to be my training level packer.
But he’s a Dutch harness cross, and I think combined driving would be so much fun! Unfortunately right now he has a phobia against anything with wheels, so the idea of driving him is terrifying!
I think soon we will see the sort of changes a lot of people are clamoring for. I hope you’re happy with it.
[QUOTE=kcmel;8875568]
I
But he’s a Dutch harness cross, and I think combined driving would be so much fun! Unfortunately right now he has a phobia against anything with wheels, so the idea of driving him is terrifying![/QUOTE]
My barn has a number of Dutch harness horses and crosses, but also ponies, Irish cob types and saddlebreds. The top horses usually have a background in ridden dressage; I know of one SB that has an h/j background. I have a fat Friesian-SB-Arab mix who started out in driving but then switched to riding. I do plan to see what he remembers at some point.
My little mare is a 14.2hh Akhal-Teke-TB cross, not a typical driving breed at all, but she’s up for any kind of work and did western stuff – roping, barrels, cattle – as a young horse so I think she’ll be suitable for driving. Actually, I think she’ll love figuring out obstacles.
[QUOTE=kcmel;8875568]
I love this idea! I told my trainer that I might let her do a 1* on my horse when he’s ready (he’s only 5, but she and others think he has upper level potential). But now I am not so sure. Ultimately the goal is for him to be my training level packer.
But he’s a Dutch harness cross, and I think combined driving would be so much fun! Unfortunately right now he has a phobia against anything with wheels, so the idea of driving him is terrifying![/QUOTE]
My saddle fitter/massage therapist and her husband do a lot of driving. She has a good base in dressage. If you decide to teach him driving I would bet she would be a good resource.
I wonder if sending him to a farm that does a lot of driving will get him used to seeing wheeled things.
Funny story: A friend trained their gelding to pull a cart. He drove all over the property and through the parking lot at the old Downingtown Inn and Resort after it closed. They sent him up to our Amish farrier to get him road safe. Chris drove him all over. Up and down Rt 322. He was great with cars, trucks buses etc… They are heading home and here comes an Amish buggy the other way. He ran into somebody’s front yard. He had never seen a horse and buggy before and it never occurred to Chris that he had not. Oops.
It is funny how they can be fine pulling a cart/buggy but seeing another horse do it is totally different.
Bromby eventually got used to it once he saw it a few times around Chris’ farm.
Horrible news this afternoon: TF Kreisler died on XC at the CIC3* at Woodside. His owners Sara Sellmer and the Dundas’s will be devastated. The Dundas family bred this horse as part of their show jumping program. Amy Dundas, their daughter, died tragically many years ago when she was kicked in a stall by one of her horses.
Sara had also suffered personal family tragedy this year. It’s bad enough to lose a horse, worse in these circumstances.
I am awfully upset that we haven’t been able to prevent this.
My thoughts are with all the connections.
[QUOTE=Blugal;8882136]
Horrible news this afternoon: TF Kreisler died on XC at the CIC3* at Woodside. His owners Sara Sellmer and the Dundas’s will be devastated. The Dundas family bred this horse as part of their show jumping program. Amy Dundas, their daughter, died tragically many years ago when she was kicked in a stall by one of her horses.
Sara had also suffered personal family tragedy this year. It’s bad enough to lose a horse, worse in these circumstances.
I am awfully upset that we haven’t been able to prevent this.
My thoughts are with all the connections.[/QUOTE]
Im so gutted by what happened today. Sara and her horse were having a beautiful round up until their fall. The horse didn’t move once he fell, so I would say at least he didn’t suffer. I didn’t have the heart to watch any more upper level cross country after that.
[QUOTE=caevent;8882157]
Im so gutted by what happened today. Sara and her horse were having a beautiful round up until their fall. The horse didn’t move once he fell, so I would say at least he didn’t suffer. I didn’t have the heart to watch any more upper level cross country after that.[/QUOTE]
I board at the Horsepark and skipped the show to go ride in the Day of the Horse. I hadn’t heard about the accident before I got back and noticed there was an odd vibe all around, which was unusual.
It never occurred to me what the reason was until I heard the news. It’s just so devastating and my heart aches for everyone effected by it. 
Our collective hearts ache and break an awful lot in this sport. Our thoughts are so often with ‘the connections’ or ‘those who knew him/her/horse’. We are ‘devastated’ on a regular basis, as if devastation is something that clears up quickly and then just as quickly returns.
This is what passes for routine in the sport of eventing. Why do we want this in our lives?
