WTF Are We Doing?

[NCRider]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8959520]
Why on God’s Green Earth would you think that this ride is the future of our sport? Heck, I would say that we all witnessed what NOT to do, and NOT our goals for the future.

And Miss Sunshine here thought that the good rides by rising talents were the future of the sport. Excuse moi…

And last I checked, ML is not struggling financially.[/QUOTE]

ML and her ilk are the future of the sport if people do nothing to stop her. Success breeds copycats and people who are successful while being ruthless in their pursuit of success put pressure on (or give an excuse to) other people to be equally ruthless in their pursuit of success. The horse and the sport lose.

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=NCRider;8960352]
ML and her ilk are the future of the sport if people do nothing to stop her. Success breeds copycats and people who are successful while being ruthless in their pursuit of success put pressure on (or give an excuse to) other people to be equally ruthless in their pursuit of success. The horse and the sport lose.[/QUOTE]

But ML has had consequences. No one is supporting her. Everyone is against her. I cannot think of anyone who would consider her a role model. I actually wonder if she is going to continue in eventing. It must be terribly lonely to be her and I suspect that even her sales have gone down. RF is tarnished.

And if/when consequences can be formal, I would bet that they will be enforced. The outcry over Fair Hill was huge. No one celebrated her win publicly, well, with the exception of those on her payroll.

Seriously, we have some great role models out there and young people moving up the ranks are looking toward them for direction. I really doubt that Missy M. is held in high esteem, even with her less publicized abuse problems.

Oh well, I must be missing something here. Obviously.

[SnicklefritzG]

It is too bad the long format is (mostly) gone. I thought that was a much better representation of what eventing should be. Testing endurance, etc.

[QUOTE=JP60;8957801]
And to finish that thought…and they need to be split out.

Good thoughts on the horse view. Life is a risk, but we do what we can to limit that risk turning into a life or death situation. Sports like some of the ones you list have increased risk, because they underlying purpose was who can go the fastest. As speed increases, so to risk, but as you point out, when the trigger is pulled, only the human body is abused. It strikes me that given Eventings root of getting across cross country, not as the fastest, but as the most able and fit, the general direction of the sport today has been actually away from that purpose.

You point about the duck is valid, but how many skinnies and corners are needed to test accuracy? Should the sport be testing true endurance more since that is what got the message home. Look at MLs ride at Rolex and we see the future of this sport; a horse under prepared, out of shape, and in the end, put into the crosshairs of serious injury by a rider whose focus has been first on making money, even a small step before the welfare of the horse.[/QUOTE]

[JER]

[QUOTE=NCRider;8960352]
ML and her ilk…[/QUOTE]

SHE HAS ILK?

(Who? Missy Miller, maybe. ML strikes me as rather ilk-less, at least from reading this forum.)

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=JER;8960663]
SHE HAS ILK?

(Who? Missy Miller, maybe. ML strikes me as rather ilk-less, at least from reading this forum.)[/QUOTE]

Maybe what the other person meant was ML’s supporters? ML has many sponsors who have the choice whether to do business with her or not.

We’ve seen athletes in other disciplines lose sponsors when their behavior is questionable, controversial, or unethical/immoral.

to my knowledge, ML still has the same sponsors she has always had recently and hasn’t suffered at all in that regard.

[Rallycairn]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8960393]
But ML has had consequences. No one is supporting her. Everyone is against her. I cannot think of anyone who would consider her a role model. I actually wonder if she is going to continue in eventing. It must be terribly lonely to be her and I suspect that even her sales have gone down. RF is tarnished.

And if/when consequences can be formal, I would bet that they will be enforced. The outcry over Fair Hill was huge. No one celebrated her win publicly, well, with the exception of those on her payroll.

Seriously, we have some great role models out there and young people moving up the ranks are looking toward them for direction. I really doubt that Missy M. is held in high esteem, even with her less publicized abuse problems.

Oh well, I must be missing something here. Obviously.[/QUOTE]

No one is supporting her? I wasn’t aware she had lost ANY sponsorship or esteem within official channels. She hasn’t been sanctioned in re: to the bloody mouths, either, has she? Perhaps she will be, but not so far, correct – is there any pending action? I thought the investigation was over and done at the event. Seems to me like everyone official is supporting her 100% by continuing to turn a blind eye to her bloody mouthed horses.

By failing to receive sanction, she, her actions, and the way she conducts the sport are getting clear official support. Plus, as I said, all the $$ and clout of her sponsors and connections (O’Connors, Mars, etc.).

The EN articles after Fair Hill had plenty of commenters defending ML, as well. No one supporting her – what???

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8960714]
Maybe what the other person meant was ML’s supporters? ML has many sponsors who have the choice whether to do business with her or not.

We’ve seen athletes in other disciplines lose sponsors when their behavior is questionable, controversial, or unethical/unmoral.

to my knowledge, ML still has the same sponsors she has always had recently and hasn’t suffered at all in that regard.[/QUOTE]

Yes, my post clearly pointed to supporters (as in people, as in us and others) and not to sponsors.

But hey, ML has continued to advertise herself with some sponsors after they have left her. I know of several people who have contacted her sponsors to complain and they’ve been told that they are no longer her sponsors. Maybe ML just doesn’t want to repaint her trailer, :lol:

I do not follow her on social media, out of principle.

[Sticky_Situation]

I do not see harsh bitting setups and bloody mouths as the future of our sport. If anything, you will be less and less likely to see such things because we live in a society that is much less tolerant of animal abuse (actual OR perceived) than in the good ol’ days.

[Sticky_Situation]

Back on the topic of safety, what do you all think about the tightened MER standards and the effect they will have on safety? I know many here have said that they would like to see tougher move-up standards,and the new requirements should make it a bit harder for less qualified pairs to move up the levels. But part of me also suspects that by tightening the amount of time penalties allowed the new requirements may inadvertently encourage riders to push for speed sooner than they otherwise would. Thoughts?

[JP60]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8959520]
Why on God’s Green Earth would you think that this ride is the future of our sport? Heck, I would say that we all witnessed what NOT to do, and NOT our goals for the future.

And Miss Sunshine here thought that the good rides by rising talents were the future of the sport. Excuse moi…

And last I checked, ML is not struggling financially.[/QUOTE]
The future of this sport, as it continues in the same trajectory is to elevate money over consequences. It will become like horse racing where the few get the good life, but the many will not.

The long format reduced the ability to carry strings of horses. The effort to condition and train as well as just the ride it’s self was more than enough to limit even the best to a small set of horses that had to be kept in the best shape possible.

Dropping the long format opened the door to now training to “just enough”. We’re not looking for 1.5 hours of effort, just enough to get past 11 minutes. OF course a problem is that with no change in OT, horses have to gallop then rein in enough times that a just enough horse can wear out too soon.

That’s the future of Eventing. ML is just a more visible representation of this direction, but a number of top riders are in this game.

FEI, wanting mo money, decides to limit the Olympics to a 3* status. You know, get get more “flags”, but it also allows to allow just a little less effort to train horses. You don’t think they have a long view of reducing Eventing to Ultimate Derby?

Wellington World, Indoor Eventing, the “cross country” at TIEC; all sanctioned by the FEI, all approved by the Professionals. It was not I who put the term jockey on to these professionals, but it is apt. They now jump from horse to horse to horse. The only way they can do that is if they have enough time to get off one, hop on another and get into the start box. To accomplish that is to reduce the length of the course. That the crowd gets to see their favorite rider again…who really cares what horse he’s riding. Do we even remember all nine horses names ridden by Buck, or Phillip, or Boyd.

So WD, I meant that ML is the future of this sport, because she represents the pursuit of money first, the welfare of the horse second. The sport use to be about pairs, now it is about riders, owners, syndicates, and then a four legged vehicle to get them more money. Whether we choose that future is up in the air, but under the good guidance of the FEI, it will happen sooner, not later.

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=JP60;8960957]

So WD, I meant that ML is the future of this sport, because she represents the pursuit of money first, the welfare of the horse second. The sport use to be about pairs, now it is about riders, owners, syndicates, and then a four legged vehicle to get them more money. Whether we choose that future is up in the air, but under the good guidance of the FEI, it will happen sooner, not later.[/QUOTE]

This bothers me only because it sounds like you want eventing to be the sport of the idle rich.

It has been that for quite a few, especially in the past. One would be surprised at how many of our “eventing greats” had trust funds that supported them throughout their lives.

So shall we toss out those who need to support themselves and their families?

The way things are going currently, many of them drop out of the sport because they cannot support themselves. That list is quite long as well. I personally know a few who were very successful at the 4* level who dropped out because of the $$ issue. Some don’t even ride anymore.

And riders have always had strings of horses, even the wealthy, simply because it takes quite a few horses to find just one capable of the 4* level. But those who are not “trust funded” also have a lot of youngsters to produce for clients and also to sell.

[JP60]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8961375]
This bothers me only because it sounds like you want eventing to be the sport of the idle rich.

It has been that for quite a few, especially in the past. One would be surprised at how many of our “eventing greats” had trust funds that supported them throughout their lives.

So shall we toss out those who need to support themselves and their families?

The way things are going currently, many of them drop out of the sport because they cannot support themselves. That list is quite long as well. I personally know a few who were very successful at the 4* level who dropped out because of the $$ issue. Some don’t even ride anymore.

And riders have always had strings of horses, even the wealthy, simply because it takes quite a few horses to find just one capable of the 4* level. But those who are not “trust funded” also have a lot of youngsters to produce for clients and also to sell.[/QUOTE]
No No No. Quite the opposite if you really read my posts. From the perspective I have, Eventing is doing pretty okay from the bottom up. It is slowly getting squeezed in the cost area, but I see happy riders, happy horses from Starter to Training, maybe prelim.

There is becoming a sharp divide in crossing over to FEI and the CIC or CCI type events. This is where the money is to be made for a rider and this is where the great (abuse) can be found. Have you missed when I say it is past time PRO splits from USEA/USEF and strictly aligns with FEI. Allow the mission of USEA to promote amatuer eventing first without the influence of monied interests of Pros or FEI officials trying to turn a buck.

What ever that sport becomes I’d hope it would not taint what I see is a vibrant LL sport where competition is strong, people have fun, horse human teams are the stars. Folks talk about Eventing becoming like jumpers, which may be true, but what I also see are lots of local jumper shows that have good showings.

We don’t need high prices horses to make this sport competitive for the grass roots.
We don’t need fancy expensive fences that raise the cost of entry nor the High level CD because a venue feels the need to run FEI levels.
We also don’t need high cost judges, because two of the 6 levels needs a “R” (FEI), not “r”.

Yes, the FEI is the repository for the idle rich and time and time again I’ve advocated we dump them for they are killing our sport. Now, does that sound like I want Eventing to become the home of the idle rich? Let them have their super derbies since they seem to not like the classic sport.

As to the past, I can only speak of what I know. Kim Walnes shared her story with me and she was in no way a trust fund baby, nor was Denny, nor Jimmy. Kim bought Gray and trained him herself with jumps they made at home. Picture after picture Denny posts shows not a silver spoon, but a farm kid having to work for his chance. If a rider cannot make at the 4*, because it costs too much, does that not say something is already wrong with the sport? If they do step out it does not mean they cannot train people, horses which may be a more consistent way to make money.

I am not sure what you are defending, but I’m defending a sport that to my eye and ear is slowly getting eaten away by professionals worried about making money at riding and not about the sport as a whole.

[Winding_Down]

I am not so sure that Denny and Jimmy don’t come from families that provide financial support. If they didn’t then I’m mightily impressed with how eventing gave them the resources to have such lovely facilities. In DE’s case, he has two lovely facilities. And I’m impressed with the capacity to pay for an Ivy League education.

So are you saying that pros should not compete in USEA events? Many I know have to compete a lot of young horses in order to have the $$ to compete their upper level horses.

And I’ve seen more abuse amongst amateurs in low key settings than I’ve seen at ULs at big events. And I’ve intervened before too, most recently at a XC schooling day. Of course, I am far less forgiving when the abuse comes from an UL rider who should know better.

It seems that the behavior of Pros that you witness is markedly different from what I witness. Sure, I see some bad eggs. But most do this because they love horses and love the sport. They can’t be doing it for the money because eventing is a sorry way to try to make a living for most.

[JP60]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8961973]
I am not so sure that Denny and Jimmy don’t come from families that provide financial support. If they didn’t then I’m mightily impressed with how eventing gave them the resources to have such lovely facilities. In DE’s case, he has two lovely facilities. And I’m impressed with the capacity to pay for an Ivy League education.

So are you saying that pros should not compete in USEA events? Many I know have to compete a lot of young horses in order to have the $$ to compete their upper level horses.

And I’ve seen more abuse amongst amateurs in low key settings than I’ve seen at ULs at big events. And I’ve intervened before too, most recently at a XC schooling day. Of course, I am far less forgiving when the abuse comes from an UL rider who should know better.

It seems that the behavior of Pros that you witness is markedly different from what I witness. Sure, I see some bad eggs. But most do this because they love horses and love the sport. They can’t be doing it for the money because eventing is a sorry way to try to make a living for most.[/QUOTE]
Winding, I’m not certain you mean to be contrary for contrary sake or if you just don’t comprehend my words.

First, as I do not have intimate knowledge of the up bringing of DE or JW, I can only rely on what I read and see. Denny was not handed his skill…he earned it and from what I can tell, he did it from riding every horse under the sun. From what I can tell so did Jimmie so if you want to call them blue bloods, by all means, but back it up with dollar figures. From what I can extrapolate, Denny has two fine facilities, because he earned the money to buy them. He is accomplished after all and if Doug Payne can sell a horse to by a farm, I guess so too Denny.

As to Pros competing in USEA(F) events, no and yes. Of course, but it is clear they are not competing for any other reason than to move a horse up or price a horse. So many more at BN, N, and T are competing for the idea of actual competition. This is the 4*. Yes, we have “Open”, but as has been talked about before, course creep has entered into LL so move up horses gain “experience” in a competition.

Back before there was BN, N, or T, there were people training horses to compete at UL. Again, the easy way for money is to run horses up levels, instead work them outside of competition until they are ready for Prelim heights. What I am tired of seeing is some professional running 5-10 horses at a show. They are schooling, not competing and it mocks the many others with their one who truly are trying to win. On the horse record will be x events at such and such level to prove it was able to run at 1* and above. In short, no, I don’t care to see a professional rider at BN or N with a horse they are working to sell. My sport should not be a market place. Let them build their own.

We differ, that’s fine. Your one of those “I know so much because I’ve done it” and I’m not. You win…(sigh)…you win. I got maybe 5 years till I can’t ride so who the fuck cares what I say or feel…you win. Until then, I will find those pockets of joy that is Eventing. I will enjoy my one horse for that is the definition of this sport. I will revel in what is left of cross country till I find it not to my enjoyment and eventually I will feel sad at the end of the sport.

You win…

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=JP60;8962062]
Winding, I’m not certain you mean to be contrary for contrary sake or if you just don’t comprehend my words.

As to Pros competing in USEA(F) events, no and yes. Of course, but it is clear they are not competing for any other reason than to move a horse up or price a horse. So many more at BN, N, and T are competing for the idea of actual competition. This is the 4*. Yes, we have “Open”, but as has been talked about before, course creep has entered into LL so move up horses gain “experience” in a competition.

Back before there was BN, N, or T, there were people training horses to compete at UL. Again, the easy way for money is to run horses up levels, instead work them outside of competition until they are ready for Prelim heights. What I am tired of seeing is some professional running 5-10 horses at a show. They are schooling, not competing and it mocks the many others with their one who truly are trying to win. On the horse record will be x events at such and such level to prove it was able to run at 1* and above. In short, no, I don’t care to see a professional rider at BN or N with a horse they are working to sell. My sport should not be a market place. Let them build their own.

We differ, that’s fine. Your one of those “I know so much because I’ve done it” and I’m not. You win…(sigh)…you win. I got maybe 5 years till I can’t ride so who the fuck cares what I say or feel…you win. Until then, I will find those pockets of joy that is Eventing. I will enjoy my one horse for that is the definition of this sport. I will revel in what is left of cross country till I find it not to my enjoyment and eventually I will feel sad at the end of the sport.

You win…[/QUOTE]

I’m not certain you mean to be contrary for contrary sake or if you just don’t comprehend my words.

No, I am not being contrary for contrary sake. I am truly confused as to why you think it is right to not allow Pro riders to compete at USEA competitions. Who are we to judge the motives and goals of others? How is their presence so offensive to you?

[I][B]Again, the easy way for money is to run horses up levels, instead work them outside of competition until they are ready for Prelim heights. What I am tired of seeing is some professional running 5-10 horses at a show. They are schooling, not competing and it mocks the many others with their one who truly are trying to win.

[/B][/I]Many of us who train horses to sell are establishing a record and schooling at the same time. Often, Pros sell horses that are at the novice level. A USEA record is evidence that the horse has been successful. Many ammies who buy event horses look at the USEA record as a way to gauge the horse’s potential. A horse that has placed highly is deemed to be superior. Our reasons/motive for eventing are varied.

I do not wish to judge motive for eventing. Some event because it is fun, and others, like you note, are eventing because they are trying to win. Frankly, I don’t care why someone events as long as they are polite and safe. I also do not care how many horses they compete. It is no skin off my teeth.

[I][B]In short, no, I don’t care to see a professional rider at BN or N with a horse they are working to sell. My sport should not be a market place. Let them build their own.

[/B][/I]I just do not get why you are bothered by people competing on horses they are working to sell. That is how people support their UL horses. How else are they going to generate the $$ to compete? I myself compete horses to sell as I cannot afford to compete otherwise. Does that mean I should be forbidden from competing at the LLs?

We differ, that’s fine. Your one of those “I know so much because I’ve done it” and I’m not. You win…(sigh)…you win. I got maybe 5 years till I can’t ride so who the fuck cares what I say or feel…you win. Until then, I will find those pockets of joy that is Eventing. I will enjoy my one horse for that is the definition of this sport. I will revel in what is left of cross country till I find it not to my enjoyment and eventually I will feel sad at the end of the sport.

I am not trying to win. I am trying to understand. It just seems so unfair to exclude a group of people from events simply because they are making a living through competing in those events. And I also do not have many years left to event. I am winding down, revising goals, and not riding the sorts of horses I once rode. Why you think that I see myself as knowing so much because I have done it… well, I really can’t respond to that. I am just questioning what you are saying and how your wishes for the sport would play out in a way that would benefit the sport.

[JP60]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8962150]

I am not trying to win. I am trying to understand. It just seems so unfair to exclude a group of people from events simply because they are making a living through competing in those events. And I also do not have many years left to event. I am winding down, revising goals, and not riding the sorts of horses I once rode. Why you think that I see myself as knowing so much because I have done it… well, I really can’t respond to that. I am just questioning what you are saying and how your wishes for the sport would play out in a way that would benefit the sport.[/QUOTE]
You are like my older brother. I recently told him that given the separation of years between him and me, we cannot really understand each other. He won, because I choose not to make a point that cannot be understood. Will this help, you are the parent, I am the child…you win. BFNE et al…you hold on to this ideal that professional know better, that leaders have the best interest of the sport in their hearts. You are the crowd when a child might say, the Emperor has no clothes.

I am but a child and…and this last thought then as hard as it is…I am done on this thread

"Does that mean I should be forbidden from competing at the LLs? "

Yes, yes it should. Should adults play softball with their children? Should a Pro Football player play sandlot football with some kids? Should Jeff Gordon drive go karts against kids? I do not give a crap if you are trying to sell a horse. I got the same stupid excuse from BFNE and she clearly only runs horses at the lower levels to move them up to sell.

No, I do not want you there if your only interest is taking some horse that you are going to sell up the levels. I bust my ass, I ride in the damn cold before work, I ride in the damn dark, I scrimp my budget to afford a trainer who will help me move up a level for the first time, I am not alone…and you come a long. Just another horse to get ready for sale…so sorry you didn’t place with a 30. I’ve gotten to the point where I can look at an entry list and know that we won’t place simply because I’m against trainers and expensive horses. Funny thing, I’m not so much about ribbons, but at 300+ dollars a show, I’d really really like to compete against my peers, not you.

That is not against the talent of my horse, it is because I cannot compete against people who do this for a living or have time and money to ride way more than me.

Sour grapes? Naaaaa…At the end of the day I really don’t give a shit about ya’ll who lord over noobs like me…and really…you do. I respect what you can do, but I’m hard pressed to respect people that use LLs as nothing more than training, ignoring the hard work, effort and heart that many many more put in to just getting through a course.

You don’t want to understand me. If you did then just reading the bulk of my posts would make it clear where I stand. At the least you want to diminish me for I don’t fit the model of “Eventer” in your mind. At best, you want to silence me for I upset the balance that is Eventing today. A sport that is now dominated by professionals influenced by organisations that have little concern about the base of this sport.

Me and Sterling, we got maybe five years. I’m guessing the last 3 will be Unrecognized and after that I’ll volunteer at what ever local event still holds a classic Eventing format. I won’t support professional jockeys, but I’ll support those professionals that still attempt to educate new riders what the heart of Eventing is all about. I will be grateful I got to experience the best of what was for what it will be…my prayers to the horse.

[Winding_Down]

oh my.

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=JP60;8962244]
You are like my older brother. I recently told him that given the separation of years between him and me, we cannot really understand each other. He won, because I choose not to make a point that cannot be understood. Will this help, you are the parent, I am the child…you win. BFNE et al…you hold on to this ideal that professional know better, that leaders have the best interest of the sport in their hearts. You are the crowd when a child might say, the Emperor has no clothes.

I am but a child and…and this last thought then as hard as it is…I am done on this thread

"Does that mean I should be forbidden from competing at the LLs? "

Yes, yes it should. Should adults play softball with their children? Should a Pro Football player play sandlot football with some kids? Should Jeff Gordon drive go karts against kids? I do not give a crap if you are trying to sell a horse. I got the same stupid excuse from BFNE and she clearly only runs horses at the lower levels to move them up to sell.

No, I do not want you there if your only interest is taking some horse that you are going to sell up the levels. I bust my ass, I ride in the damn cold before work, I ride in the damn dark, I scrimp my budget to afford a trainer who will help me move up a level for the first time, I am not alone…and you come a long. Just another horse to get ready for sale…so sorry you didn’t place with a 30. I’ve gotten to the point where I can look at an entry list and know that we won’t place simply because I’m against trainers and expensive horses. Funny thing, I’m not so much about ribbons, but at 300+ dollars a show, I’d really really like to compete against my peers, not you.

That is not against the talent of my horse, it is because I cannot compete against people who do this for a living or have time and money to ride way more than me.

Sour grapes? Naaaaa…At the end of the day I really don’t give a shit about ya’ll who lord over noobs like me…and really…you do. I respect what you can do, but I’m hard pressed to respect people that use LLs as nothing more than training, ignoring the hard work, effort and heart that many many more put in to just getting through a course.

You don’t want to understand me. If you did then just reading the bulk of my posts would make it clear where I stand. At the least you want to diminish me for I don’t fit the model of “Eventer” in your mind. At best, you want to silence me for I upset the balance that is Eventing today. A sport that is now dominated by professionals influenced by organisations that have little concern about the base of this sport.

Me and Sterling, we got maybe five years. I’m guessing the last 3 will be Unrecognized and after that I’ll volunteer at what ever local event still holds a classic Eventing format. I won’t support professional jockeys, but I’ll support those professionals that still attempt to educate new riders what the heart of Eventing is all about. I will be grateful I got to experience the best of what was for what it will be…my prayers to the horse. [/QUOTE]

Very very interesting post!! Many years ago, I rode in the barn of a Dressage professional in my area. He was not outstanding but he had many clients So he stayed in the area area and visited every show around. He also had good connections to some judges (they owned horses together) So the result was… all the ribbons went to his clients. If somebody else wanted a ribbon they literally needed to go to the Neighborstate to get a ribbon.

Not too long ago somebody in a German discussion board complained about the pros taking all the ribbons. He posted the results of a Jumper show. It was rather impressive…Every ribbon except for 2 (out of 40) was taken by rider riding for P.S. The complaining person said, that would happen at every single show in that area.

IMO Professionals kill the sport. They have done it for years and it will continue und increase. There is nothing to be done about it… There is too much money involved…

Its interesting because Professionals need amateurs to buy the horses but these Amateurs will only buy the horses if they have ribbons…

[gardenie]

Give the best you have

The version found written on the wall in Mother Teresa’s home for children in Calcutta:

          People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered.  Forgive them anyway.

        If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives.  Be kind anyway.

        If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies.  Succeed anyway.

       If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you.  Be honest and sincere anyway.

        What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight.  Create anyway.

        If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous.  Be happy anyway.

        The good you do today, will often be forgotten.  Do good anyway.

     Give the best you have, and it will never be enough.  Give your best anyway.

     In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway.

-this version is credited to Mother Teresa

---

[Blugal]

[QUOTE=JP60;8961686]

We don’t need high prices horses to make this sport competitive for the grass roots.
We don’t need fancy expensive fences that raise the cost of entry nor the High level CD because a venue feels the need to run FEI levels.
We also don’t need high cost judges, because two of the 6 levels needs a “R” (FEI), not “r”.

[snip]

If a rider cannot make at the 4*, because it costs too much, does that not say something is already wrong with the sport?

[snip]

I am not sure what you are defending, but I’m defending a sport that to my eye and ear is slowly getting eaten away by professionals worried about making money at riding and not about the sport as a whole.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you, JP60. Lately the demands for premium everything (stabling, jumps, parking, prizes etc.) confirm that the old fixtures of eventing have been voted out monetarily: you can’t hold a candle to this and nobody wants to play at your sub-standard level.

If you read old biographies of riders successful in the 1960s and 1970s, you see that it was possible to win Badminton on your very first horse (coming off ponies) that you got as a 5 year old, transported there in a converted milk van.

These days the qualifications to get to the top level are so numerous that it’s unlikely you get that far and still have any cash left in your jeans. And even if you did qualify, you, the amateur single-horse rider, are quite likely not to make the cut for the Badminton entries due to the points system.

I feel like the equivalent of Lucinda Green’s 1973 Badminton is today’s amateur’s CCI*. The qualifications for the one-star, by the way, are more stringent than they were for Lucinda in 1973 to go to Badminton.