Thank you asterix, you’ve explained it so well!
[QUOTE=asterix;8965401]
Also, it really goes against the culture of eventing - these are tests of training and readiness, and we can’t have coaching from the rail, or school the courses ahead of time. Part of the culture is that you do your prep before you arrive, and then it is as level a playing field as we can make it. Everyone gets the same warmup fences.
The rules actually are very specific about warmup fences and go to this point. You canNOT raise the fences more than one hole above the level (our warmup standard are marked with colored tape so the steward can eyeball it from across warmup), you can’t make an oxer a one stride, etc.
We all get the same basic tools, and all of us can end up splat in the middle of the second oxer on course (I have seen more than one very, very very famous rider do this in our sj ring), and all of us can have the day when everything goes right and we beat an Olympic medalist (on, of course, his very green horse…).[/QUOTE]
Agree so much with this. It is the level playing field that I find so appealing to this discipline. I always go alone, so if someone changes a warmup fence and doesn’t set it back, I’m left having to skip the fence which really sucks. The more this stuff gets eroded out in terms of autonomy, the more I lose interest in it.
It was my impression (and I’ve been warm up steward more than once) that other than a small modification in height (and even that is frowned upon), no modification of warm up fences is allowed. I remember one pro coach at an event I was riding in placing a towel over the rail of a warm up fence for his student and having the ring steward speak to him and then the TD got involved. I don’t know what was said but the towel went away 
Frugal, my husband is warmup steward at our HTs, BN-I, under the watchful eye of the farm owner, who is a regular official at both the national and the FEI level.
You are correct. Fences can only be raised one hole higher than competition height and there are rules about how far out a ground line can be rolled, etc.
Events where BNRs have altered warmup fences beyond these parameters are events without a properly trained warmup steward.
I have to say this is true of most of the events I compete at in area II. I’ve been in warmups with fences raised illegally high and left, in warmups with so many riders there were collisions and falls, etc.
but if you staff warmup with a dedicated, trained steward, the chaos is radically reduced.
FWIW, husband has been at other events with me and had pros ask him to step in and manage warmup (they all know him). Boyd half-jokingly suggested he should run Rolex warmup.
I think most riders, including most pros, appreciate order and predictability in warmup.
[QUOTE=frugalannie;8966705]
It was my impression (and I’ve been warm up steward more than once) that other than a small modification in height (and even that is frowned upon), no modification of warm up fences is allowed. I remember one pro coach at an event I was riding in placing a towel over the rail of a warm up fence for his student and having the ring steward speak to him and then the TD got involved. I don’t know what was said but the towel went away ;)[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, here in Area II, it is the norm for trainers/coaches to take over one or two warm up fences, breaking them down and getting all their students through/over them before starting to build them back up. A very prominent trainer/CD in this area did that at the T3D one year and then berated me when I asked her to put the fence back (think it was a vertical and she had taken it down to a a step-over cross rail) before all of her many students were done. That was also my last event- in the past four years. Just stuff like that - and I wish that were my first experience with that scenario - kinda left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Have had the same scenario more than once.
So my point is - whether or not the rules allow it, fence heights in sj warm up can be changed drastically. Just seems to depend on “who” is changing the heights as to whether anything gets done about it or not. And I’m not talking about putting a rail down one or two and then putting it right back up. I"m talking about moving it way way down or way way up and then leaving it. To hell with all the other non-client competitors.
I agree, fc. A certain BNR who you know very well jacked the fences up several holes in the warmup beforehand my first prelim. I was the only other rider in warmup, alone, on a 17.3 hand horse. There was no steward. When he was done warming up his rider, he left without even bothering to put any of them back down. All of them were well over 4’.
I will once again say that if you train and staff, you can correct this. Mr asterix has no problems telling everyone (including, once, early on, KOC, who he did not recognize) to stay within the rules and put fences back if altered at all. Everyone behaves themselves as a consequence.
I have a friend who used to be the paid ring steward at many big comps. She ran a tight ship, has excellent people skills, and made a huge difference to how well the SJ ran. If there was a problem trainer or BNR, she would seek them out and arrive at an agreement of how to work with them. On many occasions, the BNR was a whole lot calmer because they knew she was there and would make it easier for them to prepare their horse the way they wanted. For example, there was a rider who was a nutcase who liked to canter a fence and then canter straight into the ring. (Nothing wrong with the process, just saying that the person had serious nonHR issues.) She would clear the way for this so it caused as little disruption as possible.
She moved east and discovered that no one wanted to pay for an experienced ring steward. Or were wishy-washy about how to run the ring – as in not standing up to well-known rude folk.
I’d also like to point out that there are many trainers and BNR who are pleasant, helpful and respectful to others in the warm-up. Some of the biggest names wouldn’t dream of leaving a heap of poles on the ground and walking away. It’s just those unpleasant, entitled few.
In my other horse sport, I have a designated team to coach, but when my duties are done, I’m always happy to help with others, not because I’m disloyal to my national team (which is not actually my nation) but because riding is dangerous and riders should go into the ring as well-prepared and confident as possible.
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[INDENT]In my warm up times in ARea III, I don’t think I ever had see many of the issues related, but in now reading them, may be more mindful to watch as I may be going more times without “help”.
Two quick anecdotes on the idea of horse preparation seems to be an important factor in this regard, and yes, a slight brag on my horse.
Two years ago we went to Chatt Hills after it had been raining most the week, and more forecasted for the weekend. We were literally the last horse on course for the day and when I got to warm up, it was a swamp. Nothing good at all to work with. Beth Perkins was going to help me “warm up”, though given the long walk down, with a little trot, Sterling felt good. Beth looked at the footings, looked at me and ask “Can your horse jump a diagonal line?”. “Of course” I replied, though we had not. Caution to the wind was the theme of the day, so she said, “Go over there, come at this rolltop at this angle”. The only option for good footing. In short we did it. That was the only jump we did in warm up. After that we cantered on semi good footing and then waited. Of course, he did the course with his usual skill with lousy footing most the way around.
The next day, SJ warm up was just as bad, just as chewed up and I had no desire to push him over fences. Again, we did trots, canters, and one cross rail. We still had minutes so I took him out and we just stood waiting. Beth comes ups and asks, “How are you doing” and I said good. She then looks at Sterling tells me with a smile, “You might want to wake up your horse before you go in”. Yep, he was taking a nap. Again, once in the arena he knew his job and we had a clear round.
Sure, itty bitty BN, I know, but I guess my feeling is, at times we over use warm up. I watch people jump and jump and jump. By the time you are at the show, warm up should not be a lesson, but an opportunity to ensure your horse is in front of the leg and ready to do a job.
I watched a (grand pirx) jumper show where the top riders swap horses and do a round. There was this arabian that was hot, crazy, and the primary rider had his hands full. The lead guy (god I wish I could find this, I’m bad with names), horse always calm, and they worked really well together.
You guessed it. Top rider got the hot Arab. Now every other rider in their two (or three) minutes of getting to know you, did all this jumping. The last ride was Top guy and hot arab. For most of that meet and greet time he did nothing but flat work. As time went on I watched this horse start to calm down and focus on the job. He did one, maybe two jumps then went on to win the show on this horse.
Sometimes less is more. I figure if the horse knows his/her job then all we need to do is wake them up and get them ready. Otherwise, we’re really not ready and having a mini lesson in warmup won’t fix it.[/INDENT]
I found it!!!
Google and youtube are amazing. I found it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBAAZu-rz5g
It was Eric Lamaze riding Vigo. In the first round with Philippe Le Jaune Vigo seemed on the edge of rushing and hard to control. Mind you, I was only 2 solid years of actually riding so I was absorbing everything around me. Even then, I could see the difference between a “hot” horse and a powerful horse.
This was Phillipe’s run with Hickstead that won him the event
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MKzVJ8fbW0
To this day I remember Eric focusing on getting this horse to listen, to be calm. His approach to the only two warm up jumps almost seemed lazy. In the he end pulls off this amazing round on a horse that was so different from when ridden by Philippe. That is who I wanted to emulate (Eric Lamaze) so don’t anyone tell me a bad story about him 
What my trainer has pounded into me from day one has been preparation is the key to a successful ride. It is not how many times you jump, but what is the quality. It strikes me that that should be the approach from starter to 4*, 2’ verticals to Grand Prix fences. That day Lamaze showed me how it works, and the guy who won, did so on a horse that was also well prepared.
When we talk about WTF are we doing, we can shine a light on bad fences, and officials carrying more about the buck than the sport, but in the rush to grab more dough, perhaps what is starting to be left behind is just that simple act of preparation. When I watch Mr. Jung. I don’t see a God, I see a very well prepared team. He too is one I choose to emulate. Perhaps that is a point of good discussion as well.
We never jump much in SJ warm-up. After flat warm-up (which I try to do in an out of the way place), trot the x-rail, canter the vertical, canter the oxer once or twice, depending on how the first jump went.
I read an article by someone (JW or BC maybe) who said to only warm-up over the oxer because that gets you the right jump shape, and then maybe do the vertical as the last jump before your round.
How much you need to warm up will depend very much on the individual horse and rider and the situation. A young or green horse on a windy cool day where the warmup is in sight of xc is very different from an experienced horse that is focused on its job from the first fence.
USEF does something!
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/eventing/us-proposes-extraordinary-cross-country-rule-change-607309
It’s an extraordinary rule change on how frangible devices must work on XC jumps.
Apparently MIM clips work better than the frangible pins.
One only hopes that this change works as planned to reduce rotational falls.
Quoted! A young or green horse on a windy cool day where the warmup is in sight of xc is very different from an experienced horse that is focused on its job from the first fence.
And dressage should be placed in another ozone!
@JP60: “When I watch Mr. Jung. I don’t see a God, I see a very well prepared team. He too is one I choose to emulate. Perhaps that is a point of good discussion as well.”
Michael Jung is well prepared on his horses because he can afford to be. He can concentrate on his small string since he is not beholden to multiple separate clients for bringing in an income. He doesn’t have to run 1/2 dozen or more horses at an event in order to make a living. He doesn’t have to have a training barn full of amateur riders to help him pay his bills.
Many riders in the US and elsewhere do not necessarily have that luxury.
I’ve heard it said that Jung isn’t even on the fanciest horses, but ones that know their job and do it correctly and who trust him.
That is who we need to emulate, but until USET steps up with a better support system, I don’t think we will be effective competitors against him.
Raine:
I COME from the show jump world. And was a groom at one point who sat on a fence “claiming” it for our warm up. And while that works in the Show world where you have grooms and trainers and people to set fences…what attracted me to move to the event world is it was NOT like that. Most were at events on their own…and their own groom. There was no ‘claiming’ of jumps. We had set jumps of different heights–typically a cross, vertical and oxer and every one just warmed up. It has been fairly recent at bigger H/J shows that they assign warm up fences…and yes, that was done after requests because smaller trainers were having trouble “claiming” a jump. So it was meant to level the playing field so everyone got a jump and similar warm up time. I spoke with officers at shows who were doing this. It works in that world as ‘claiming’ fences is normal. It does NOT work in the event world as it is not typical for riders to have ground people…and people generally do not claim fences. So to come in and try and “impose” that in this context is nuts IMO.
Most bigger venues now add a few more warm up fences…and it really isn’t a big deal.
But what irked me more was a BNT throwing their weight around…demanding basically MORE volunteers and basically trying to impose a change that doesn’t work with eventing solely because it worked in the show world–and such BNT did not understand the culture in the show world and the claiming of fences and having ground crew to then understand why that process works there but wouldn’t work as well in eventing. Basically it was a BNR on an ego trip (and yes, I would say that to their face) with little consideration for those without their resources and for the organizers of the show.
Since the edit function doesn’t work:
At most what I would do as an organizer for an event who got the ridiculous request of the BNR…I would leave my warm up as normal…but then set aside one fence with 4 standards and rails. I would allow that one fence to be reserved at a cost…probably biddable so highest bidder gets it if a conflict. If they want it …they can pay for it. A part of me would want to demand that the rider pay out of pocket for it not their owner! (As a owner…no way would I pay for it). And knowing me…I would do a 2nd reserve fence available ONLY to people who actually volunteer at events.
Since I ride in the underworld levels, this idea of “claiming” fences seems strange. It strikes me that since Eventing is a time oriented sport, the ability to claim a fence is limited by when you are scheduled to ride. Even if some BNR floats over the river Charon to play in Novice, what value is it for them to try to own a fence when there are perhaps a few up stream teams getting ready. It is not like the whole division is out there getting ready.
Green horse or not, warmup is not lesson day. Either they know their job or not. I doubt spooking will get fixed by multiple many jumps. Hogging a fence with the hope that Spooky gets its freak on is not just rude to people, but it is potentially ignoring the issues the horse is trying to tell the rider.
I am glad, and would support any ring steward that proactively enforces height and etiquette no matter the team.
[QUOTE=JP60;8967183]
To this day I remember Eric focusing on getting this horse to listen, to be calm. His approach to the only two warm up jumps almost seemed lazy. In the he end pulls off this amazing round on a horse that was so different from when ridden by Philippe. That is who I wanted to emulate (Eric Lamaze) so don’t anyone tell me a bad story about him
What my trainer has pounded into me from day one has been preparation is the key to a successful ride. It is not how many times you jump, but what is the quality. It strikes me that that should be the approach from starter to 4*, 2’ verticals to Grand Prix fences. That day Lamaze showed me how it works, and the guy who won, did so on a horse that was also well prepared.
When we talk about WTF are we doing, we can shine a light on bad fences, and officials carrying more about the buck than the sport, but in the rush to grab more dough, perhaps what is starting to be left behind is just that simple act of preparation. When I watch Mr. Jung. I don’t see a God, I see a very well prepared team. He too is one I choose to emulate. Perhaps that is a point of good discussion as well.[/QUOTE]
I have a series of Quotes/pics printed of Lamaze hanging in my feed room. Someone made them on their blog I think it was something they took away from a clinic I can’t remember and of course I can’t find it. There are two about the warm up; “always end your exercise with the same pace you started”, and “figure out what you need to fix, and correct it at the first jump in the warm up”.
Just thought I would share more of his wisdom. I read these every day…If I find the link for the quotes I will share it!
I can’t edit - so I found the link!
http://www.horsenation.com/2014/01/22/7-very-short-lessons-with-eric-lamaze/
http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2016/12/19/racing-industry-shock-popular-jockey-dies-fall/#axzz4TK5dMMow
NZ racing industry in shock as fall claims life of popular jockey
Yes, the rest of the meet was cancelled.
