I’ve been thinking that we haven’t seen any 11 penalties for deploying frangible pins lately. Why? Change in course design, change in riding, coincidence?
I chalk it up to improved course design (more faults are through run outs) and forever improvements in riding. It is a pattern that has been evolving, in my view. Any of us who’ve been around for long can recall how many rotational falls there were in the past. So if the course design is good enough, then let’s hope that the pins will not be deployed. It is sort of like if plan a (run out) doesn’t come through, then plan b (frangible pin will deploy) should come through. Of course, all of this is evolving/changing as safety measures are developed, implemented, and evaluated…
A rose-colored glass through which I look, indeed. :lol:
What does this look like through rose colored lenses?
http://www.nicomorgan.com/?search=horse+fall
There should be a vigorous thread discussing this single mishap. If 1 out of five rotational falls cause significant injuries, we are wasting 80% of the available opportunities to learn and make progress toward eliminating this scourge.
This thread is crucial for the 1 out of five, lets try to do something with the other 4.
1 Like
I know this wasn’t your point, but god, his BALANCE. He gave that mare every possible chance he could to find a save. What an educational photo series!
I absolutely agree that the real opportunities lie in evaluating the hard falls where everyone walks away. You can actually get the rider’s input, there are often more photos released (since the “respect for the horse/rider” pressure isn’t a factor), and even though horse falls are the most dangerous kind, you are right that there are still more falls where everyone walks away than when they don’t, which increases the data set.
That said, once again I feel the need to reiterate that this was not a rotational fall. A rotational fall is one in which the horse, on the upward part of its arc over the fences, hits a force that stops the motion of its front end to some degree, causing its hind end to continue travelling and a rotation to begin around the axis created by the stopping force (aka the jump). This is the single most dangerous kind of fall, because the “fling” action of the horse’s body around the fence is what can create such a damaging impact on parts that were never meant to take the brunt of a horse body landing directly on them (horse’s neck, rider’s body, even the impact of the saddle slamming into the horse’s back).
AN’s fall was a bad one, and should absolutely be studied. Please don’t get me wrong. But it was essentially an exaggerated version of a stumble onto the horse’s shoulder. The “fling” action that can be so fatal was not present. It does not mean that we should not care about and investigate the fall, that we should not try to prevent it, or that it was not dangerous. But it does mean that the fence did not prove itself in this case to have a profile that could cause the most damaging kinds of falling action. That distinction is very important for course designers.
1 Like
Interesting set of photos. It looks to me as if the horse had tried to bank the log in photo 5 and couldn’t because of the rounded shape. Does it look like that to anyone else? That sequence doesn’t look like most rotationals to me.
1 Like
To me, a textbook example of a rotational fall from this year that did NOT get enough attention (as you say @CSU92, likely due to the lack of injury) was Paul Tapner and Bonza King of Rouges at Badminton this year. Photos attached. I thought this was absolutely horrific, but because they walked away, no one really said a word. This could have ended so badly…
Full series here: https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2017/05/…#axzz4ruKiJJNJ
Much as I hate to support the Daily Mail, video here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti…21978666436780
1 Like
100% agreed Viney, I think your read is right. Perhaps because corners are not normally made of such large logs? I’m speculating there, though.
There was extensive talk of the course at Badminton this spring, it just wasn’t in this thread.
That fall is horrifying.
1 Like
Yes it does look like that. The horse took a huge flyer to it. AN said he rode too far to the left, and didn’t get the distance right there.
Pictures like these always make me sick. That poor horse. 
I would also wonder about the visual impact of the rough bark surface. Depending on the light, it may well have an effect similar to a herd of zebras: actual outlines of individual elements are hard to distinguish. And they must cause some dreadful skin abrasions in this type of crash.
Also, FWIW, note that AN is using his arms as a “crumple zone” in the manner that Landsafe teaches.
1 Like
Agreed. I guess it didn’t stick in my mind as “extensive” given the length of some other conversations on here, but you are right that it certainly was discussed. What sticks with me more is how it was dismissed more broadly by the rider (who I understand was probably trying to mentally protect himself) as “acrobatics” and then everyone just moved on. I guess the dismissal I’m remembering was more broad and less COTH Forums.
Agreed. Upon your quote I’ve edited my language - even though I think my meaning becomes clear, I don’t want “great” anywhere near those pictures
1 Like
It seems a common thread with the riders. There was a BNR whose profile pic on FB was a horse fall…for a long time. Not sure if it still is. In bad taste if you ask me.
I snipped your post down to this because it hit me when I read your link that the rider used the term “acrobatics”. I think he really did a disservice to everyone when he used that frivolous term for such a serious fall.
1 Like
I read the results of a study (I think it was on types of horse fencing) which showed that horses see colours in the brown and green spectrums best. And they are good at telling colours within those spectrums apart. They felt this was because in nature, horses are encountering grass, dirt, trees, etc. (they need to differentiate for eating, running) and also look out for predators that try to blend in.
The result, from my recollection, was that they found that horses didn’t see white fencing very well, and recommended that we use brown or green fencing instead, even though to the human eye we think this will blend in and not be seen as well.
From my own perspective, I much prefer jumping green horses over logs than over coloured poles. I always thought it was because logs were more natural to them, and were substantial so it made more sense to jump them. However, it could also have to do with the colouring.
I know. It’s tough - I’m sure when you know you want to keep going over tracks like that, it’s not incredibly mentally healthy to dwell on what might have been. The horse just ran (successfully) at Burghley, and I’m sure they didn’t want that ghost chasing them while they tackled a course that big.
That said, something small acknowledging the luck that played a part in them walking away, or at least discussing what it was that you think may have caused it, would be more helpful to the discussion in my mind.
Tough to say what I think is the right answer for the rider as an individual here.
2 Likes
Is there an official textbook definition? Horses don’t read textbooks:) The horse’s front end was halted by the left knee trapped below the back rail. The hind end rotated over the center of gravity, landing further from the fence than the front end. Flip with a twist but a flip nonetheless.
This question was a related distance to an open corner built of massive trees that had blown down on the property in a storm. (too massive to be made frangible) The rider is of top ten in the world caliber. Yet the horse took off way too long. Did it see a bounce question instead of the corner? Having the corner filled in might have helped the horse swim through there.
In a strict sense, an angled jump like a corner does introduce an East/West vector on top of the textbook North/South rotational fall, reducing the chance that rider is deposited in harm’s way. I don’t think we should rely upon this to be a foolproof safety feature.
To clarify: the reason I distinguish the two is because there is a fundamentally different type of interaction with a fence that allows a rotational fall (where the front end is halted/slowed dramatically as it attempts to clear the fence) and a horse fall (which could happen from a multitude of factors, and in the most helpful universe, would have additional categories into which they could slot - trip, non-fence-related, medical event, coming down early, whatever). Qwanza’s fall was of the “coming down early” type, and then appeared to be complicated by the fence allowing her to get into the middle of it a bit.
My only point in this is that making this fence frangible would not have prevented this fall. Making it bank-able might have, or perhaps it was unreadable in a way that people smarter than me should figure out. I’m truly not meaning to argue semantics here, I’m trying to distinguish between types of falls that appears to have very different root causes.
You make good points about the quality of horse and rider, and about the profile of the fence relative to its ability to “save” in the event of an error. I hope study of this incident helps to prevent similar ones in the future.
1 Like
A French rider was killed in a rotational fall at a one-star event today: http://eventingnation.com/maxime-debost-dies-in-rotational-fall-at-chateaubriant-cci/
Oh man. I remember hearing about this rider last year for some reason. I remember thinking what an up and coming star he looked to be. This is so sad.
1 Like
