I started a thread maybe 8 - 10 years ago because I was so upset at 2 horses dying at one HT. Everyone jumped down my throat. We keep changing things for the worse. Even the basic HT format is for convenience, not safety, or actually testing what is supposed to be tested. The first thing I would change is to NOT teach horses poles fall down the day before they don’t.
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Oh crap 
What happened with Abracadabra? I looked on the eventing sites and didn’t see anything reported.
This was a horse going Pre-Training (Novice), at Glenarden horse trials in Ontario. She had an almost rotational, landed on her shoulder and fractured her leg.
Isn’t landing on their shoulder considered rotational? Or does the hip and the shoulder have to hit?
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Landing on the shoulder isn’t considered anything in particular. The hip and shoulder has to hit in order to be considered a horse fall.
A rotational fall is a very specific kind of horse fall where:
the horse hits a fence with its front legs or chest and its body somersaults over the fence with the fence acting as a pivot point. In a rotational fall, the rider usually is thrown out of the saddle and goes over the jump before the horse. In a worst case scenario, the horse can land on the rider.
https://equineink.com/2008/07/18/what-is-a-rotational-fall-and-how-can-they-be-prevented/ (not a particularly specific source, I just thought it was expressed well)
A pet thing for me is that I wish this moniker could be reserved for true rotational falls. The difference between a stumble to land on a shoulder and a rotational fall is night and day. Yes, both can be dangerous (as we see here) but the danger level (to both horse and rider) is distinct enough that I believe we should reserve the term for true rotational falls only, as they are truly noteworthy. This thread will be of diminished assistance for future analysis if we allow ourselves to cross wires about what actually happened.
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Sad to add “Bob the Builder” in his fall and subsequent fractured long pastern bone at the European Championships in Poland today.
http://eventingnation.com/bob-the-builder-euthanized-at-european-championships/
Emily
Crap, Every time I see this thread bumped up, I know to check EN to see who died this time.
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Even more sad no one seems to care 
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Not really fair to say that no one very bothered by it. I am very bothered by this, altho I don’t think we know quite what happened. If you were watching, you saw it. You have probably read what has been written. So far I haven’t read details but it seems they don’t know when he broke his leg. Was it when he initially went into the fence? It looked to me like he sort of stopped too late, and landed in the middle of the fence. Then he went over sideways. I thought maybe a heatstroke or heart attack before the details came out. AFAIK, we don’t know yet what exactly caused it. But to say we don’t care smacks of someone with an agenda, like say PETA.
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If he wasn’t on course, he wouldn’t have died. I mean it’s that simple. Is eventing to blame? I don’t know. Like you said, we don’t know. We never know. We never have enough details given to asses these situations. The organizers and FEI especially are hush hush. They take their data and do what they please with it and rarely share it.
And even when we do have studies, that show what fences cause falls (like big square open oxers like this one, or corners in and out of water, etc) course designers and TPTB ignore it and build them anyway.
So excuse me if it seems like those who can make a difference don’t care. I hardly see anything about it posted anywhere. It’s just, “oh, another casualty, so sad”.
I have absolutely NO PETA type Agenda. I love eventing, I just went eventing yesterday. I was walking the course and witnessed a horrifying horse fall out of the water aiming to the exact type of fence found in those studies that have higher risk of falls, and I wonder, does anyone actually care about these horses, and want to make the sport safer. Obviously, there are some like the amazing people here on CoTH, but they are few and far between.
Excuse me for being bitter. I’ve had enough of updating this thread for the year.
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Then don’t do it. How did that fence get past the TD? Did you bring it to their attention?
ah, so we keep them as pasture puffs? Maybe we should only ride on snaffle rein and never challenge ourselves or our horses. Last week, I spent a lot of time following the Mongol derby.The ‘horses’ they ride would barely qualify as ponies over here, but they were able to go 20 miles between stations. Most of it was ridden over land without roads. Tough tough horses. I don’t think anyone would be crazy enough to even try to take a thoroughbred over there to do that. My point in this rambling answer is there is danger in getting into your car and driving to work. Horses are killed standing in the pasture hit by lightening. Eventing is a dangerous sport. I guess we can all ride training level, or take up knitting. BUT, then again, Christopher Reeves was killed eventually on a training level course.
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Of course if he hadn’t been on course he wouldn’t have died. If he hadn’t been born he wouldn’t have died. You could always “if he hadn’t…” all day long. If the rider were an accountant instead of an equestrian, this never would have happened. What kind of life is that? Horses are the sport. The sport includes jumping. Jumping is dangerous. “Screws fall out all the time. The world is an imperfect place.”
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Ridiculous. My point was the fence was legal - we keep building fences WE KNOW cause falls and have a MUCH HIGHER rate of fatal falls.
Did I contact the TD? No, I literally was walking my course and was at jump 3 when it happened to a rider on course. So not sure how I would have had time to contact the TD, or even bothered to because I wasn’t walking that course. The horse was coming through so we stopped and moved aside and the fall happened.
So I guess you both think since everything else can kill you in life it’s ok to keep building courses and fences we know will kill us. You say in one post you do care but then go on to say we should take up knitting if we think eventing is too dangerous? It’s comments like that, that allow the PTB to continue to do nothing about fence design, course design, dangerous riding, etc.
We have seen horses die this year. Tired horses being pushed causing falls. Riders dying. Yet apparently, all is good and well in eventing in your eyes.
@DrBeckett What kind of life is that? What kind of sport continues to use elements that we know are causing fatal falls?
This thread is about eventing safety and making change, if you think eventing is fine the way it is why are you even here.
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Yes, getting in our cars could lead to a life-altering accident. So the cars get continued upgrades in safety features such as seatbelts, airbags, deformable crumple zones, ABS brakes. We didn’t just shrug and decide the Model T was going to be the final design. We also put speed limits on roads, and hazard signs, and add barriers to them. Etc.
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I’d hardly conclude that nobody cares. There are 72 pages on this thread alone asking what more can be done. Every possible cause has been argued. Footing, fence placement, weather, horse fitness, rider competence, etc. It does not take a rocket science to understand, the only absolute way to avoid an accident is to not participate in the sport. Freak accidents are going to happen, whether it’s XC, a pasture accident, barn fire, trailer loading mishap, etc. Those are going to happen no matter what and we simply cannot beat ourselves up because we are the ones who put our horses into those situations.Most of us own horses to ride and enjoy them, not pasture ornaments.
Accidents that are the result of negligence, an over faced rider, unfit horse, poor course design are all things that can and should be corrected. Efforts have been made in course design, but I would like to see more people speak up when they see a rider or horse who just does not belong out there. We have all seen them and kept quiet as they rode by. Nobody wants to speak up and be that person.
I watched a horse at Millbrook in one of the upper divisions a few years ago. The horse was already exhausted by fence 5. The rider persisted in beating the snot out of the poor thing over the next few fences resulting in some scary jumps. I was just about to snap some pictures to take to the TD when the horse failed to clear a fence and landed square in the middle of it, two feet in front and two in back. She had no choice but to dismount and retire at that point. Had she continued on, you bet your ass I would have reported what I had witnessed. It really made me sick to watch. While it was an extreme example of where preventable accidents come into play, I do wish more people would speak up when they see a horse exhausted on course or a rider giving a horse a very bad ride.
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I am curious about how the new USEquestrian rules effective Sept 1 will be applied to incidents like the ones catalogued in this thread?
https://www.usef.org/media/press-releases/usef-horse-welfare--safety-penalty-guidelines
"IV. Death and Maiming – Includes acts in which the death of a horse occurred, but was not intended
- First Offense - Suspension of 36 months and $36,000.00 fine and must appear before the Hearing Panel and provide proof of rehabilitation before being eligible to regain membership
- Second Offense - Suspension of 60 months and $60,000.00 fine and must appear before the Hearing Panel and provide proof of rehabilitation before being eligible to regain membership
- Third Offense – Lifetime ban
- If there are multiple horses involved, the penalty should apply to each horse and run consecutively"
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I would argue that unless the rider is penalized with Dangerous Riding due to events that lead to a horse’s injury or death, there is not even a case to be made. First, these are guidelines; second, the matter must lead to a hearing before such penalties may be imposed. I think we all recognize why these guidelines were issued at this time, and understand how long it took USEF to get serious about standardized punishments for the most egregious violations.
If there is genuine concern that riders will be faulted over poor course design, however, it is up to us as members to stand up and speak out, or rather scream shrilly, about our issues with fence and course design. Almost seems like nothing short of standing outside the USEF office with placards is going to keep their attention. Moreover, members would also need to come down on USEA like a ton of bricks. I don’t even know what to do about FEI - they didn’t seem to care about accusations of horse maiming in endurance; not sure why they’d care about this.
Thank you for keeping this thread updated, @Jealoushe. I don’t reply but I always check to see who we’ve lost. Abracadabra’s death was disturbing to me. I know we can lose them at the lower levels (and I remember that pony at Devon dying over a freakin’ hunter/stadium fence), but to actually have it happen… Not enough bubble wrap in the world, is there? That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t keep trying to do better.
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I am wondering if there are thoughts to share from this group regarding Burghley xc and how the falls compare to the previous two decades. It seems that we need to consider all data, and not just those that support our views on safety and lack thereof.
My understanding was that there were no injuries today. But I could be mistaken. I thought about how much smoother the course was, compared to years past, throughout watching the live feed.
Of course I could so easily be missing something…
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I actually said the same thing watching - the falls were not bad falls and not punishing but the course was very difficult, never let up. It required BOLD FORWARD riding, much like courses of the past. Maybe there is a correlation with falls and the gallop - jump jump jump - courses opposed to the courses like this Burghley.
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