WTF Are We Doing?

[Jealoushe]

Some very sad news coming out of Dassett Eventing today. The following is from Kate;

I’m devastated to say HHS Dassett Appeal (Gimmie) has been put to sleep after sustaining a serious injury in the CCI3* at Blair Castle this weekend.

Lauren, Gimmie’s life long groom, has been incredible all week and has handled this heartbreaking situation with compassion and the definition of professionalism. She was with him until the very end and there is no one else Gimmie or I could have trusted more with such a task. We are so very proud of you Lauren and I am hugely grateful - thank you.

Gimmie grew into the ultimate the XC legend. I cannot thank him enough for the incredible journey we’ve had together over the last 9 years and the amazing bond we formed. He was the kindest and most gentle horse I’ve known. I don’t think he’s ever look as well, happy and confident as he did this week.

The attached photo of him flying the last fence, ears pricked, full of running and with a huge smile on his face, shows his enormous heart and joy for the job. He quite literally could not have given any more on Saturday and was an utter privilege to ride. He is, and always will be, the best XC horse I’ve ever ridden and I am eternally grateful for all he taught me.

Dassett Fields will be a lot less orange without you Gimmie

[Jealoushe]

Added HHS Dassett Appeal to list. RIP.

[Fergs]

The injured Swedish horse at WEG Box Qutie has been put down: http://eventingnation.com/box-qutie-euthanized-due-to-injury-sustained-at-weg/

[Jealoushe]

Ugh. How devastating.

[tbchick84]

@Fergs

The injured Swedish horse at WEG Box Qutie has been put down: http://eventingnation.com/box-qutie-euthanized-due-to-injury-sustained-at-weg/

Is this the one everyone was yelling to pull up?

[Incantation]

No, this is the horse that people said broke down after the last jump.

[betonbill]

I read some of the comments after the EN article and the general consensus seemed to favor burying news like that or not mentioning it at all. Like most of the posters here I believe the opposite. The more we acknowledge that these things happen and then try to minimize the causes, the better off the spectators, organizers, riders, and horses will ultimately be.

[Laurierace]

If this is a thread to chronicle any equine death of an eventer then Box Qutie technically belongs to be mentioned but there was obviously a lot of bad luck involved as well. The amount of horses who get soft tissue injuries every single day doing any sort of activity including taking a weird step walking around a pasture is astronomical. The number of those horses that have complications that require euthanasia can likely be counted on one hand.

[Jealoushe]

@Laurierace

If this is a thread to chronicle any equine death of an eventer then Box Qutie technically belongs to be mentioned but there was obviously a lot of bad luck involved as well. The amount of horses who get soft tissue injuries every single day doing any sort of activity including taking a weird step walking around a pasture is astronomical. The number of those horses that have complications that require euthanasia can likely be counted on one hand.

Yes we know this, there are dozens of pages discussing this. However, the horse was euthanized due to competing at WEG so the horse will be added to the list. This was due to XC, not due to nature. There are other cases of this happening because of change of footing, and therefore they should all be included so we can accurately see any patterns or reasons these things may be happening.

[Where_sMyWhite]

I am curious (and not quite sure where to look).

Are the results of necropsies mandated by FEI made public when the results are complete and published or does one need to have “connections” to be able to read necropsy results?

I am one that would like to understand more about what happened to Box Qutie. She looked ok to me until she got back to the cool down area and then did not look so good

As Laurierace said, many horses get soft tissue injuries and very few end up being euthanized.

[JP60]

At the very least, can they create a rule that requires an investigation when there is a horse death, Can they require a necropsy when a horse either dies or is put to death while part of a competition?

At the very least we, meaning those who care, would want to understand how this could happen, even if it was “an accident”, but maybe we also learn, to see when it might be time to pull up and say…not today.

I had a horse that had soft tissue damage after a fall of both of us. it took 6 months of care to get her back to being rideable, and while she never did eventing again, she gave me a year of dressage and lived 5 more years as a trail/ pasture horse.

If we, as humans, start to kill horses because it is not economically feasible to ship an injured horse back, care for the horse, and understand that it won’t ever be a competitive horse again, but could still live a comfortable life…we should end this sport. That would be very very wrong thinking,

I would like more transparency, less emotional “Too soon” to horse injuries or deaths so we not only face the reality of how hard this sport is on horses, but how we can learn from these moments.

[ladyj79]

I believe a necropsy is required for fatalities at FEI events but unsure if it happens after, even if likely the result of an injury at an FEI event…

maybe not?

yes at event, but maybe not after even if related although that must be reported?

From FEI

​ Any fatal illness or injury sustained by a Horse during or after an FEI Event where such
a fatality is related to the Horse’s participation in an Event, must be reported by the PR
to their NF within 72 hours of the death of the Horse. The NF must inform the FEI
Veterinary Department using the FEI Equine Fatality Report Form, and register the
Horse’s death in the FEI Database within 72 hours of notification.

Article 1081
Post Mortem Examinations

1. The VD must ensure that a full gross post mortem examination is carried out on any
   Horse that is euthanased or dies at an FEI Event regardless of the circumstances
   surrounding the Horse’s death.
2. Where available, the post mortem examination must be carried out by a veterinary
   pathologist at a dedicated veterinary pathology centre where possible. Post mortem
   examinations may only be carried out at Event sites where national legislation restricts
   the transport of a deceased Horse.
3. The FEI will cover the cost of the gross post mortem examination and transport costs
   to the pathology centre, up to 650 Euros.
4. The pathologist carrying out the post mortem examination must complete the FEI Post
   Mortem Examination Report and return it to the FEI Veterinary Department as soon as
   possible.
5. All details relating to post mortems and the reports derived from such examinations
   must be treated in complete confidence with the submitting FEI Veterinarian requesting
   that such information is sent to the FEI Veterinary Department only. A copy of the post
   mortem report is supplied to the Horse’s Owner via their NF and to their NHV.​​​​​​

[frugalannie]

I’m not a vet, but it was reported in EN (may have been a copy of the posting by BQ’s connections) that the mare had compromised circulation in the affected limb. That would seem to make any meaningful recovery difficult if not impossible with catastrophic infection a huge risk. In my naive heart, I can’t imagine that the mare was euthanized for economic reasons alone. Being a mare, there would be residual breeding value even if she wasn’t able to be ridden.

Feel free to straighten me out!

[fordtraktor]

@JP60

At the very least, can they create a rule that requires an investigation when there is a horse death, Can they require a necropsy when a horse either dies or is put to death while part of a competition?

At the very least we, meaning those who care, would want to understand how this could happen, even if it was “an accident”, but maybe we also learn, to see when it might be time to pull up and say…not today.

I had a horse that had soft tissue damage after a fall of both of us. it took 6 months of care to get her back to being rideable, and while she never did eventing again, she gave me a year of dressage and lived 5 more years as a trail/ pasture horse.

If we, as humans, start to kill horses because it is not economically feasible to ship an injured horse back, care for the horse, and understand that it won’t ever be a competitive horse again, but could still live a comfortable life…we should end this sport. That would be very very wrong thinking,

I would like more transparency, less emotional “Too soon” to horse injuries or deaths so we not only face the reality of how hard this sport is on horses, but how we can learn from these moments.

as I said on another thread, I had a retiree I had supported for 6 years post retirement, and owned for 17 years, who developed a “circulation” issue after an injury in the field…he threw a blood clot and it lodged in a hind leg and blocked the circulation to the limb, his hoof was ice cold to the touch. The vets all said he would develop gangrene in the leg (from the death of tissues from lack of circulation) if I did not euthanize him and there was no other real option.

horses do not thrive as amputees, unfortunately.

I do whatever I can for my horses, but I don’t tend to let them suffer. So I euthanized him as recommended and cried my heart out. He is buried under my spruce trees.

circulation issues are real. My horse never had a mark on him from his trauma. Bad step…I saw it happen. My fields are not flat but the footing is so level I can mow with a lawn mower. A few days later, so lame I send my vet a video and he thought he broke his leg at first. It dangled and waved around in the air because not weight bearing.

[Donellan]

Ben Hobday lost a Novice horse in a fall in the UK over the weekend if you’re not just looking at top level horses?

[BWP]

@Donellan

Ben Hobday lost a Novice horse in a fall in the UK over the weekend if you’re not just looking at top level horses?

Shadow Sapphire at Alnwick Ford. Fell on xc. I was there but don’t know what happened.

[JenJ]

Is there a minimum age for Novice (= Prelim for us I think)?
The EN article said the horse was 5 years old.

I know age is just one factor, along with rider experience, horse experience, length of time together as horse and rider combo, physical and mental development, etc., but 5 y.o. seems awfully young at that level, especially if the article is correct that this was the first competition they did together (another rider did lower levels with the horse).

sad

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@JenJ

Is there a minimum age for Novice (= Prelim for us I think)?
The EN article said the horse was 5 years old.

I know age is just one factor, along with rider experience, horse experience, length of time together as horse and rider combo, physical and mental development, etc., but 5 y.o. seems awfully young at that level, especially if the article is correct that this was the first competition they did together (another rider did lower levels with the horse).

sad

That is comparable to Prelim/Modified in the US. It is not uncommon to have a 5 year old at those levels in the fall season. I don’t think they can do a 1* (now 2* under new rules) until 6 but I could be wrong…they can do the National level at that age. I’ve known many who do a few at this level at that age and been fine. Personally, I don’t with my own horses. I don’t find they are any slower moving up the levels later if you wait a bit at this age. But you can do just as much damage running a bunch of lower levels or over training too.

[BWP]

@bornfreenowexpensive

That is comparable to Prelim/Modified in the US. It is not uncommon to have a 5 year old at those levels in the fall season. I don’t think they can do a 1* (now 2* under new rules) until 6 but I could be wrong…

You’re not wrong!

4yos can compete a maximum of 4 times in the season from May 1st, at 80/90 or BE4yo classes (90cm). At 5yo they can compete up to Intermediate/advanced intermediate. Advanced minimum age is 7.

Going intermediate with a 5yo will raise the odd eyebrow, but Novice for an athletic late 5yo is really NOT unusual. The novice at Alnwick is quite an inviting, ideal ‘move-up’ track.

[packy_mcgaughan]

@JP60

If we, as humans, start to kill horses because it is not economically feasible to ship an injured horse back, care for the horse, and understand that it won’t ever be a competitive horse again, but could still live a comfortable life…we should end this sport.

Myriad factors go into making a decision to euthanize a horse. Cost is a big factor in that decision. Not every horse owner can sign up for the costs associated with full blown colic surgery, long term soft tissue rehab, or surgery that can stabilize and repair fractures. You seem to be saying that because the horse was injured while being ridden in competition, we must do everything in our power to make sure the horse is saved at all costs. I do not feel we are under a moral obligation to go bankrupt on vet bills simply because our horse was injured in competition.

The facts are that horses get injured every day in some of the most benign ways. I have had horses sustain life ending injuries while walking in the field, trail riding, and yes, as a result of competing in the show ring. Many times I have seen instances of horses being euthanized due to career ending injuries that would have meant a lifetime of pain management and expense that their owners simply could not afford. These are heartbreaking decisions to have to make and warrant a very deep and considered discussion about animal welfare and animal rights and the horse’s role in the modern world.

From trail riding to endurance races, from barrel racing to the hunter ring, when a horse is no longer sound or healthy enough to be useful, sustains a devastating injury, contracts a life threatening virus, or requires life saving surgery, the economics surrounding the heroics required in times of emergency are most definitely a factor in whether a horse lives a life turned out in the field, or crosses the rainbow bridge right then and there. Putting out an ultimatum that if you cannot afford to do everything the horse might need to stay alive you shouldn’t play the game gives hope to those that would forbid us from riding altogether,