WTF is my horse doing to himself?

[IPEsq]

My horse keeps coming up with fat legs. Appears he is whacking them or kicking something. Usually just big swelling that subsides after some days of local management. Occasionally a small cut/scrape. He has been quiet in turnout. It seems to happen sometime during the afternoon while he is in his stall. Only thing we can think of is he’s having trouble with his afternoon naps. Including possibly having cast himself a couple weeks ago. Usually the legs ultrasound clean and not a lot of heat but this last one has more heat, and while still looks like he banged it hard, who knows (discovered late yesterday after being fine that morning).

And after the previous train wreck thing (provable cast) that resulted in two fat legs and a sore body, he’s moving poorly like back when we were really struggling with back pain. Vet put him on Robaxin for a while to see if it resolves. Trying to keep him off stall rest if possible but I’m being conservative with the latest hot leg.

He does like to curl up in the back corner of his stall. He loves cats and wishes he was one. But he has always done this without problems and has been in this same stall for over 3 years now. He probably used to sleep more than he does now.

Aside from trying to figure figure out a camera system without WiFi at the barn, anyone have any suggestions? This horse already drives me crazy but this is ridiculous!

[4LeafCloverFarm]

What type of bedding does the barn use? Is it possible the bedding has hitchhikers (lice or some sort of noseeum critter) or oils he’s allergic to or something else that is effecting his legs?

[firefoot]

My horse is narcoleptic and falls down in his stall. I’m currently trying a few things to see if he’ll lay down before he falls down but do you think your horse is having sleep issues, whether narcolepsy or sleep deprivation? Do you think he remembers getting cast and now doesn’t want to lay down, causing him to fall while sleeping standing? When mine would fall down, he’d bust open his ankles but also a couple times opened big scrapes along the inside cannons and other knicks and cuts. I changed his bedding in hopes that a fluffier bed will encourage him to lay and help cushion more if he falls.

[IPEsq]

He is bedded in sawdust/fine shavings and regularly is covered in them so I think he is still laying down as usual. He usually sleeps a lot overnight and also takes a nap after eating when they come in in the afternoon. He is probably down 2-3 times a day and when he was growing a lot he used to also take a good nap in the paddock (lately I mostly see him standing and snoozing outside).

He gets up and down fine to roll. I don’t often catch him down in the stall due to my schedule but can tell usually from him and the bedding when he’s been down. He seemed to take a mid-morning nap today in the stall for example because I groomed him early when I checked on him then went to another farm to teach (leaving him in today) and when I came back he seemed like he had been down.

He is a hardcore sleeper. But always has been. So this is weird.

[IPEsq]

So far most of the issue has been in one leg (usually a hind) in the pastern and fetlock. Then when we think he got cast he also cut the inside of the front leg on the same side and that blew up for even more days. Starting high with the cut then pooling and staying in the fetlock area for a while.

This time it looks like he banged the outside of a hind. No cut but when the swelling is down from bandaging there is a lump above the fetlock on the outside that’s warm. It spreads up the leg and onto the other side into the digital sheath after a bit unwrapped. Nothing at all in the pastern this time. And it’s more hot than the other fat legs have been.

No one has been seeing him do anything stupid. Not that he can’t be stupid but he has seemed quiet while we have been going through this.

[AnotherRound]

I too would also tend to think this is a response - allergic response to oils in the sawdust, bites, something. I don’t think this is from banging himself. I think he has an allergy or allergies and cuts or contusions do create an opening for a reaction. Have the vet rule out kidney or liver problems or diet issues.

[Jealoushe]

Can you wrap him at night, either standing wraps or Back On Track Quick wraps and see if it helps?

[IPEsq]

He eats bandages. I can get by temporarily with a lot of elastikon, but no, he won’t stay wrapped long term. BOT boots he will also eat.

We did just do kidney bloodwork, and all was good.

[IPEsq]

He also seems to often do this between when they eat around 2 or so and when I come by after work. The one time I think he cast himself overnight based on how fresh everything was, but I had been on a plane the evening before and didn’t do a night visit. There isn’t anyone who could wrap him in that window but me. When I’ve had to work from home to meet the vet during the day, I have wrapped him, and he will leave them alone usually for a few hours like that, but I don’t really dare wrap him overnight because I’m afraid that will do more damage.

[beowulf]

Is this the same one that has kindly put you through just about every wringer possible?

Some horses just stock up when they’re still; usually horses with some “past history” on their legs - IIRC, didn’t he have a few injuries behind, or am I thinking of a different horse?

Not super uncommon for windpuffs or thick legs on a horse that has some old injuries or past complaints. Take my gelding with an old healed medial/lateral collateral ligament rupture in his hind leg – if he is stalled for any length of time, that leg gets pretty fat…

Does it go down with bute or in-hand walking (iirc he is not in work?).

No fever, right?

It’s the right time of year for lyme, and that does cause some seriously fat legs/inflammation sometimes…

[Posting_Trot]

Have you thought about cellulitis? Here’s a brief discussion of it:

https://equusmagazine.com/diseases/the-cause-of-cellulitis-in-horses-8504

I’ll agree with beowulf about the possible connection between cellulitis and lyme disease, or really any more systemic disease. My (previous) mare came down with cellulitis on two separate occasions when she had an active lyme infection.

[IPEsq]

No way this is stocking up. Also no signs of infection in bloodwork. Does not act like cellulitis. Not even any broken skin with this last one. We have tested for Lyme in the past. It’s not that common here. But not impossible. It seems too random to be Lyme, but he did get body sore, so I guess it could be that and not that he got cast.

Yes this is the one who likes to find creative ways to incur vet bills in general. He really was improving overall this year and even went to a horse show.

He had an acute kidney scare in the spring (why we are monitoring his blood. So we are trying not to give Bute or Banamine. One of his vets has a poultice that has diclofenac, ketoprofen and DMSO, and we often put that on under a wrap for a few days. It does seem to resolve on its own usually in a few days. The one front leg with the scrape took longer. Anytime we have checked also with ultrasound, we don’t see anything abnormal except some fluid in the tendon sheath if it’s still swollen at that time.

The latest hing leg seems fine today. It maybe has a touch of warmth left but a dry wrap last night took the rest of the swelling out and I moved him around and he seemed sound and nothing started to swell up after a couple hours. We’ll see how it all looks tonight.

[tipzythegreat]

Is he kicking the stall repeatedly? That’d be my best guess, asides from getting cast. Is he kicking when it’s grain time or if he doesn’t like his neighbor?

Hind leg makes me think kicking as well.

Can you get a camera in there?

[Jealoushe]

They make bibs that go under the chin and attach to the halter to prevent bandage eating, might be worth a shot to see if you can at least prevent the swelling.

[IPEsq]

I’ve never known him to be a kicker and I’ve asked the staff that feeds (plus been there recently for a few meals) and they say he doesn’t kick. He tends to nervously put his mouth on things at feeding time. Sometimes gets a little animated in the stall.

How does the bib thing work? Would he have to wear a halter? Seems like a bad idea! Also he would eat the hind wraps most likely while laying down…lol. Front wraps are for sure more risky, but the longer / more often he has to wear stuff on his legs, the more likely he is to mess with them.

[IPEsq]

New swelling again. This time on the front of the left hind fetlock…like extensor tendon area. Also a little bit wrapping around toward the back. He hasn’t worn a bandage recently except I put polos on to go for a 30 min walk this morning, when leg was fine. I was told he did nothing in turnout but eat and nap.

So now we are up to 1x right hind, 1x left front, 3x left hind. Different spots on LH each time.

I don’t see anything amiss in the stall. Sometimes he might curl up part of a mat because he drags his feet backing up to dunk his hay, but they reset them when they clean, I often reset some, and he has always done this. Besides you’d think if he got caught on a mat badly enough to blow up a leg, there would be more than just some bedding stuck under an edge or corner here and there.

Lots of horses and no one else having any reactions to bedding. The BM is at a loss. Gremlins?

[4LeafCloverFarm]

How about switching stalls (if that is an option), just to see if the swelling/injuries follow?

[IPEsq]

@4LeafCloverFarm

How about switching stalls (if that is an option), just to see if the swelling/injuries follow?

Might not be an option but I suppose I can ask.

[sascha]

Has he had NSAIDS since the first fat leg? Has he always always always covered himself in shavings? Is he always seeming to hurt himself after his 2pm feeding? How many times has he been caught casting himself? Does he just hang out upside down or does he struggle? If he struggles does he appear to be trying to get up or to “make it worse” ?

If he were mine he’d be on a trial of Sucralfate or one of the other fast acting ulcer meds (not omeprazole) so fast my bank account’s eyes wouldnt even have time to water. My bet is he’s banging his legs up trying to get his belly comfortable by turning himself upside down. It works well for foals and yearlings, but once horses get bigger it’s tough for them to flop over up against a wall and then flop back at will without tangling a leg or two.

[IPEsq]

@sascha

Has he had NSAIDS since the first fat leg? Has he always always always covered himself in shavings? Is he always seeming to hurt himself after his 2pm feeding? How many times has he been caught casting himself? Does he just hang out upside down or does he struggle? If he struggles does he appear to be trying to get up or to “make it worse” ?

If he were mine he’d be on a trial of Sucralfate or one of the other fast acting ulcer meds (not omeprazole) so fast my bank account’s eyes wouldnt even have time to water. My bet is he’s banging his legs up trying to get his belly comfortable by turning himself upside down. It works well for foals and yearlings, but once horses get bigger it’s tough for them to flop over up against a wall and then flop back at will without tangling a leg or two.

Never been caught cast. He has always taken very hard naps and his routine at this barn has been to take one after 2pm feed. He is also usually down at late night check.

His ulcer signs are pretty easy for me to spot now, however one of them I haven’t witnessed but could be happening is rolling in the stall. Even if it’s just once a day, that is not normal for him—he only rolls outside, even when he was on stall rest for months. And he could hurt himself if he is rolling and not just laying down. But he isn’t showing any other signs that he may be ulcery, and it’s usually quite dramatic for him with even very mild ulcers on scope. He hasn’t had any NSAIDs. And I’ve put him away wet and such a few times when he might roll (it’s usually a normal looking rolling event except for him if it’s in the stall, it’s not), and he hasn’t rolled.

He is incredibly itchy right now especially on belly and around the sheath area. Also some other places. But the bugs are bad and it’s about time to change coat, and he’s not the only one really itchy in these areas. I guess it could be something in the bedding just affecting him more? We get bulk shavings. I could ask if I could buy bagged shavings for a couple weeks or so as an experiment. I don’t want to make the staff have to deal with straw if possible even though horse would love to take his naps in straw.