If all else fails. Try him on Succeed. We had a horse that “acted out” like this and there was no lameness ever found. Please keep in mind this horse was on the AA circuit and there was no budget in trying to figure out what was wrong. After nothing seemed to work, we treated him for ulcers with Succeed which I SWEAR by. It is pricey, but it WORKS! I have seen it transform numerous horses. IT took a bit of retraining to get him to get out of the habit of stopping and not budging, but once the succeed kicked in, there was no going back. As for the peeing, if he pees a lot, like out of his stall and while standing in the crossties and there is an abnormal amount in his stall, he may be prone to cushions and need some thyroid meds. We had one that would pee literally allll the time and we put him on Thyrol and he was fine.
I have thought of doing the Succeed challenge. His gut sounds more normal after not being on any beet pulp for a couple of days–they fed him grass hay and alfalfa at CSU and then a tiny bit of senior to mix in his pre/probiotics. So, if I can figure out a way to get him to eat the powdery things without beet pulp, I’m going to try that first.
UPDATE on scan –
It turns out the rib Fx Dx was wrong. A resident gave the initial reading, and after the chief of radiology reviewed the images this morning, the priority of findings was changed. So, he had some uptake in the ribs but it was put way down on the list of significance.
Topping the list was uptake in the dorsal processes at T14-T18. They repeated his spine Xrays and noted no change in what was found in 2015. There’s some sclerosis from T15-18 but no kissing spines. There were also changes at the articular facet of L1-2, but this didn’t show up at all on the bone scan.
Next is bilateral hock uptake in the lower joints that was significant.
After that, there was uptake in the LF foot. This is not the foot where he had the PO, although he had thinning soles bilateral. Xrays have been good of LF. They couldn’t do solar views on the bone scan because he was trying to paw the gamma camera, which they didn’t like too much :rolleyes:. So, shoes pulled for nothing.
Nothing in the SI. Nothing in the RH other than the hock. Some mild uptake L stifle. Mild uptake in the neck right side C5-6 and C6-7 (we have not injected 6-7, as this has looked good on ultrasound and Xray so far).
So, the plan is to inject hocks, shockwave and inject the back between the spinous processes.
If we get desperate later on (i.e., no change in behavior), maybe perfuse Tildren in LF foot.
If all of that fails, I don’t know. Pretty close to giving up. I guess the good news is we don’t have some really scary new Dx.
Well you have some things to work on and try. I always like that better than being in the dark even if the diagnosis is not super clear. It is the toughest when they have multiple issues going on as the symptoms get all muddled up. Jingles continue.
Well at least that gives you something to work with. Continued jingles!
Glad to hear it wasn’t the neck, at least. The back certainly makes sense. Hopefully you will get some positive results treating that. Good luck to you!
This week we shocwaved the back, did injections of depo medrol and sarapin in the back, steroids in the hocks. The joint fluid in the hocks was a little on the watery side, so vets thought it was good we were treating.
He is having a full 7 days off from the back injections (turnout allowed), and then we can do some light work in hand for a few days to a week, depending on his behavior, before saddling. I finally bit the bullet on an Equicore thing to work on strengthening his back. I may try introducing it during brief hand walks next week but not try to do any other work with it until after 3-4 weeks from the injections.
So far, he is WILD. Squealing, showing off his levade, bucking, wanting to play. I was trying to find his paddock Jolly Ball in the snow this morning, but I think it blew away in the last wind storm. I had to keep an eye on him so he wouldn’t sneak up and try to “play” with me. So, I think he is feeling pretty good! It at least makes me feel like the shockwave and sarapin are already having an impact. Although he’s also had a week and a half off with not even a little bit of work, so it might just be the crazy starting to come out. :lol:
That’s great! Sounds like he’s feeling better. Hope this is the answer and he’s on his way to being back to normal. I’ve never heard of the Equicore. How’d you hear about it? Looks interesting and a lot like the Linda Tellington Jones leg wrap idea, but more expensive.
I’ve done the sarapin. It helps stop the pain cycle, but it’ll come back once it wears off. I found acupuncture done very frequently (weekly) for a while, then tapering solved the back pain - but I’ve not done radiographs so I don’t know if it’s just muscular or involves joints.
His sports med vet at CSU recommended I get one in 2015, but at the time I couldn’t bring myself to spend that much money on a saddle pad. And, he has to get the “large” size, which is more dressage saddle sized, and also pretty thick. I plan on introducing it in hand with a surcingle and going from there. CSU uses one for their rehab horses as does another vet run rehab program in the area. I’ve also known a couple of fellow boarders with one who have liked it. His current chiro vet has also recommended it more recently. I think I’ve gotten enough not so subtle hints!
Originally, it was recommended to help improve his proprioception and correct the gait asymmetry behind (slight toe drag when lazy on RH and slight circumduction of RH). I’m thinking it can’t hurt those things at least but hope that it will primarily help him strengthen his back to fix the soreness for good. I believe in 2015 I eventually put a pretty good hind end and topline on him, but at that time (post-neck treatment), he was forward enough that I could do it with poles, cavaletti, hacking out, carefully tailored and balanced exercise regimen overall for his experience level. Given his more recent behavior, I thought that having something that would help us in hand at least (we’ll have to see if he tolerates it under saddle) might help us get back on track. He’s been double longed and also can be worked in a quarter sheet with a tail strap, so I don’t think he’ll freak out at it. Not sure if he’ll like the belly strap, though!
That’s why they also used steroids. He already gets acupuncture about every 4 weeks, and this area of his back almost always gets treated. I plan to keep that up.
His issue is not in the joints. The dorsal spinous processes are quite tall, so his issue is pretty superficial in comparison to the location of the facets.
I had good results with having steroid and sarapin injections performed on my horse. I had it done twice and haven’t needed to do it again. I also made the landing gear more comfortable with pads and pours, did a couple rounds of SI injections, and tried Osphos. Good times! :lol:
2 times down on the longe line now. First session, I just tried to keep it easy and hang on when he had to blow a gasket due to freshness.
Had a day off in between and I longed again today with a surcingle and my BOT back warmer. Setting up for the plan of doing some long lining this weekend and trying on the Equicore thing. He was a really good boy…dare I say acting like the horse I thought I bought 2 years ago. Listening for the most part and respectful. Responsive to light requests for transitions. I was able to let him go around more at the canter (staying relaxed), but overall the workout was short and sweet and not frustrating for either of us.
I believe he is moving better on RH, but it’s hard for me to tell because I’m spending a lot of time focusing on his eyes and ears to see what mischief might be going through his mind to get a really good look at his movement. But that’s just normal 6 yo stuff, nothing concerning.
The real test will be putting him back under saddle next week, but it’s a start in the right direction!
Sounds like nothing but good news–finally! You’re due for some 
Glad you have some direction at least. I don’t blame you for feeling like giving up. It really becomes a roller coaster after a while. I needed to get off mine. Hopefully, you will fare better! Jingles for your guy.
He was super in hand over the weekend. We did some long lining and I introduced the Equicore thing with the rear strap. We mostly walked with the Equicore. Trotted a few circles with it, and he got mad when he went to be a little sassy and swing his butt sideways only to find out he can’t do that so well with the band on…made him get a little clumsy and then mad about it. He’s fine walking with it on, which I will probably do 1-2x a week for a while before reintroducing trot. Haven’t tried the belly strap yet.
He had M-T off with some hand walking. Today, I put the saddle on. I’m thinking he’s going to outgrow it this year, but his weight keeps fluctuating, and it’s only a little snug behind the lower part of the shoulders when he’s on the fatter side. I am hesitant to take more out of the front panel just yet because I don’t want to wind up dropping it onto his withers. I did notice that the rear of the saddle does overlap with some of the areas we treated (vet shaved the injection sites on his back). The saddle has a nice wide gullet and wide rear panels, so it doesn’t touch the spine or anything, but I was wrong in initially thinking all the sites were behind the saddle (it’s a 17").
I longed first for about 10 mins, and he was a little more reluctant to go with the saddle on. As in, when I first asked for trot, he stopped. Once I got him moving each direction, then he was fine. Back to being very good, using more subtle cues, very little in the way of baby shenanigans.
Then I get on, and it’s all the same sour grapes. Pinned ears, raising his head, kicking out at my leg, popping up in front. Stopping to park out. We have a CTJ meeting, and he goes. Then stops. Rinse, repeat a couple of times until we are cantering to the right. Then, he is happy to just lope around the ring with me in my half seat like a good hunter pony. Take a break with lots of pats.
Try to go to the left and get the same attitude. Wind up cantering to the right, trotting across the diagonal and then spanking him into left lead canter. Once going, it’s the best left lead canter we’ve had in a while, and I do the same thing–half seat, light aids, just let him go around a while till he blows out a few times. He had no interest in doing his crow hop buck thing and was quiet even with the wind howling outside the arena.
After this, I go back to work on trotting. Easier to the right than the left, but eventually he will go a few laps in either direction, can canter and come down to trot and keep trotting, can stop (at my cue) and have a break and then pick back up with a light squeeze. He gets a wither scratch, peppermint, and I get off.
My plan is to ride again lightly tomorrow to try to reinforce the above, Friday hand walk in the Equicore thing, and then see what we have over the weekend. I am really hoping today’s attitude was all from anticipation of discomfort. After we got through the initial fight, he stopped the parking out. Because he got better fairly quickly after I started to get through to him–I was on less than 30 mins including the time it took to figure out the right tools/approach for our CTJ meeting–I hope that once he got moving he started to realize it wasn’t so bad after all and that his mind will turn around again. The only way I can likely fix the back issue for the longer term is to get his back and core fit, which means he’ll have to be willing to work.
An interesting note is that since his injections, he has pooped only a maximum of 2 times during work so far. Some days in hand, nothing until cool out. Most days, one poop. Today was 2. He does still prefer to pee before we get started with work. I do wonder if the hind gut issues have been neuromuscularly related to his spine issues more than from internal GI problems…like IBS?
I would love to get enough training into him for once that it’s not a complete baby horse restart every time we run into an issue. I’m kind of bummed the first ride was so difficult. I thought he’d know he feels better based on how he has been to handle generally. He’s a much happier horse these days in his general demeanor and more trusting of me.
Ok, I’ve been on his back 6 times now with varying levels of activity. Still NQR, but I’m currently struggling with what is still behavioral hold-over, what needs to be waited out with building fitness, and what may still be something needing more proactive management.
On the behavioral side, he still doesn’t much like traveling to the left at first. There’s a lot more balking going to the left at all gaits, although when picking up a canter, even if I allow him to track right, he may still strike off on the left lead. That’s not unusual because he tends to get crooked on R lead canter departs, especially when balking, and I’m not really caring much about what lead he picks up so long as we canter. I just get going and then ask for a change. But, face him tracking left at first, and there’s more balking. Once we get going around at the canter for a while, he is happy to keep going and often wants to break into the canter again later. No real preference as to lead. On the one hand, I think this sounds behavioral. On the other, I wonder if we ought to put Tildren in the LF–RF only one treated because only one showing PO on the 2 sets Xrays and RF only one lame, but LF showed some inflammation on bone scan. But, he had been averse to tracking left with the PO because tracking left at trot made him lame on RF due to the PO being medial RF P3. He has been stiffer in the ribs to the left. Right hock appeared to be the worst hock. Back sensitivity was worse on the left. So, could also be a little bit of any of those things.
Some days, I don’t insist much where he wants to go so long as we get going. Other days, I can start off asking him to strike off at the trot to the left or the right, and he goes with minor complaints.
We can w/t/c, and canter departs are much better from the walk than trot. But, we often need to do it as trot-walk-canter to keep him from balking into it from the walk. Right lead canter is so much better than it used to be until he gets tired. Left lead is about the same, but it was his better lead.
He has to pee before we get going, and usually this goes best (less messing around) if he pees while I hand walk him a little bit before mounting. This is weird but doesn’t bother me. He also tends to pee before going to work on the longe. He has tried to stop and park out some as an evasion but is pretty easy to call that bluff. Mark that behavioral.
He doesn’t want to canter unless he’s pooped first. Occasionally does this on the longe as well. So, if my routine is short trot warm-up, canter, then doing fitness work at walk/trot after, he has to stop/balk say hold on, let me poop first, before we canter. This is weird. Behavioral or physical? Pooping still kind of a production, but still only doing it 1-2x a workout, which I’d consider normal for him.
He does generally end every ride a lot more forward than it begins. Sometimes, it’s because he’s getting mad because whatever we’re doing is hard. This is ok…I’ll take that any day over stopping. So, if he’s consistently getting better each ride about going forward without a huge fight, is the picking a little fight at the beginning behavioral, anticipation, or him saying something is still NQR but it’s better. I would like him to be able to end forward and relaxed, but I don’t often get both to my liking. This may just get better with fitness…he’s so heavy when getting muscle tired.
I am trying to keep the rides short. Thankfully, we don’t fight for 30 mins to get started, so I’ve been successful in that. This is what they consist of–
Ride type 1 - hunter hack to go forward: Short trot warmup, loose rein. Canter as long as he wants, though trying to be even both directions. Canter is 2 point, light contact, asking for some bend and balance but not insisting on him sitting on his hind end so long as he stays light and soft in front–just happy to go forward without a battle. Then, we cool down at the trot which requires some transitions and some more contact, as by this time he will start to rush on the forehand from being out of shape. I try to keep him from getting himself out of control on the forehand, see if he’ll take a breath, but do not really put him in a frame. He’s not strong enough to do the same trot at the end as at the start. This isn’t doing much for his core fitness, but it’s ideally a forward and low pressure ride.
Ride type 2 - more trot and fitness work. Here, I will canter very little, because he tires so quickly from the rest that it’s kind of a hot mess. Canter is mostly to work on transitions up and down or if he decides to offer it up (which he often does). We don’t go round and round at canter, though. This ride may include some lateral work at the walk, thinking about maybe a SI or leg yield at trot, work on the working walk (still terrible at this), more balance, roundness at trot with suppling exercises with stretchy trot breaks. Rein back, lots of transitions. Working on responsiveness up and down. This ride makes him tend to get more anxious/pissed, which he has to talk to me about, but it’s going to build the right muscle strength. It’s going much better at us being able to take a walk break and resume work of this type than it used to, so I am trying to keep up with that and not just drill because I’m afraid to stop.
Ride type 3 - Equicore. Just started this type u/s. I ride in the Equicore thing (he’s fine with both bands now) in the working walk without much in the way of tight turns. We will spend 30 minutes trying to achieve working walk. Then, if we get somewhere with that, I may trot the long sides of the arena a few times each way. Trying not to overdo it with the bands yet but also working on being able to take walk breaks, ask them to be in working walk, and then go faster again. Only done one of these rides so far, and it went quite well. Will add poles here.
Any thoughts? I feel like I’m mostly on the right track so am trying to push on with this plan. At least, behavior is manageable. And there’s no fighting to leave turnout or go into the arena. Or at the mounting block.
Vet wants to repeat shockwave soon, but insurance is trying to deny paying for the bone scan, so I dunno. Can anyone tell me how long sarapin lasts in their experience?
