WWYD - Ulcerated tumor on anus... When is it "time?"

[OveroHunter]

Well the diapers didn’t work. Wouldn’t stay on and they sometimes got stuck despite our best efforts to Vaseline the thing to death.

Now that it’s not covered he’s been licking it constantly. The vet said that’s probably because he’s not comfortable. They mentioned trying pain medicine so I think we’ll go that route… But do I really want him to live his last days in a drug induced state?

We’ve been keeping him inside even though we haven’t been able to cover it. All he wants to do is lay down near me and I have a bed in my office so we just line it with a ratty sheet and he lays there and stares at me all day… I’m really lucky to have known this kind of affection.

I called the vet two days ago and scheduled the euthanasia for yesterday morning… but then I called them an hour before they were supposed to come and cancelled… I just can’t.

Talked to the vet about some of your suggestions. Cauterizing it is out of the question because it’s way too big. No biopsy was every done because the vet was certain it was cancer. They said basically that I could spend thousands of dollars to get it removed and treat it, but it would likely just come back even worse. We elected to just let him live out his life as happily as possible. That was a year ago and he had a great year till last Sunday morning. The tumor itself is about the size of my fist. Half of it is covered in skin and the other half (right side) blew out last Sunday. A very large chunk of it (maybe billiards ball size) is not covered by skin and is just “tumor meat” for lack of a better term.

ETA: If this was me advising someone else I’m sure I’d tell them to euthanize him… I’m a rational person… I just can’t explain why I’m desperately trying to prolong my dog’s life even though I know deep down it’s not fair to him.

[Zu_Zu]

B for ALL ~ wrap him up in ‘home love’ for whatever time you two have left together ~

again

((hugs)) laced with strength and patience ~[/B]

[cloudyandcallie]

Are you saying that no vet has ever biopsied the growth? So how do you know it is cancer?
Get a referral from your vet to the UGA vet school, load up the dog, and take him there pronto. It is cheaper to go to UGA than to have a private vet treating the dog. BTDT.
Obviously you did not take him to Briarcliff Animal Hospital in Atlanta where the vets are wonderful, but expensive. They’d have biopsied, and operated and removed the growth.

Now my experiences: A rescue dog I found run over when he was a puppy grew up to weigh about 100 pounds. When he was about 12 or 13, he got a growth on his anal gland on the left side of his anus. Not obstructing his defecating, but I knew it would eventually burst open if he rubbed it or chewed it. So I scheduled a removal of the growth, had it biopsied, it was benign, and the dog had many more years o happy life in my dog pack.

Second incident was when I moved my horses after my BO moved back up north. New barn had a pot bellied pig who had a huge growth, again on an anal gland, and it was blowing up daily. BO did nothing so I got a friend who had recently graduated from UGA vet school, and who had rescued pot bellied pigs for over a decade (she’d worked at the first barn where I boarded C&C) and Cherise operated, removed the growth, and biopsied. No cancer. If that pig had rubbed that huge growth, it would have looked like raw hamburger.

The story here is get the biopsy, have the operation to remove whatever is left, and hopefully the growth will be found benign and the dog can keep on living. Yes it’s expensive, but NOT thousands of dollars at UGA or at Cherise’s surgery or even at Briarcliff (where you can pay by the month which I did for my animals for decades.)) I paid for my BO’s pot bellied pig’s surgery and medication. Worth it to not watch an animal suffer. I don’t understand not having a “beloved” animal taken to UGA when the costs are so reasonable. I’ve done that for decades with cats and dogs.

[TBROCKS]

[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;8516818]
Are you saying that no vet has ever biopsied the growth? So how do you know it is cancer?
Get a referral from your vet to the UGA vet school, load up the dog, and take him there pronto. It is cheaper to go to UGA than to have a private vet treating the dog. BTDT.
Obviously you did not take him to Briarcliff Animal Hospital in Atlanta where the vets are wonderful, but expensive. They’d have biopsied, and operated and removed the growth.

Now my experiences: A rescue dog I found run over when he was a puppy grew up to weigh about 100 pounds. When he was about 12 or 13, he got a growth on his anal gland on the left side of his anus. Not obstructing his defecating, but I knew it would eventually burst open if he rubbed it or chewed it. So I scheduled a removal of the growth, had it biopsied, it was benign, and the dog had many more years o happy life in my dog pack.

Second incident was when I moved my horses after my BO moved back up north. New barn had a pot bellied pig who had a huge growth, again on an anal gland, and it was blowing up daily. BO did nothing so I got a friend who had recently graduated from UGA vet school, and who had rescued pot bellied pigs for over a decade (she’d worked at the first barn where I boarded C&C) and Cherise operated, removed the growth, and biopsied. No cancer. If that pig had rubbed that huge growth, it would have looked like raw hamburger.

The story here is get the biopsy, have the operation to remove whatever is left, and hopefully the growth will be found benign and the dog can keep on living. Yes it’s expensive, but NOT thousands of dollars at UGA or at Cherise’s surgery or even at Briarcliff (where you can pay by the month which I did for my animals for decades.)) I paid for my BO’s pot bellied pig’s surgery and medication. Worth it to not watch an animal suffer. I don’t understand not having a “beloved” animal taken to UGA when the costs are so reasonable. I’ve done that for decades with cats and dogs.[/QUOTE]

This is the best advice. It would be a shame if he were slowly bleeding out from a benign, removable growth. Without a biopsy you just don’t know.
Seconding also that the vets at UGA are super. Also, Auburn has a wonderful small animal clinic as well.

[JBD]

Our first rescue/failed foster had a growth that was eventually going to block elimination. We had it removed and did not biopsy as the dog was very old and had other issues. We wouldn’t have put him through cancer treatment.

The worse part was the stitches wouldn’t hold. So after 2 or 3 repairs, we just kept it flushed clean. It did heal but took awhile. We had Nick for a little over a year and euthanized him when he became paralyzed in his hindquarters. Before that happened, he got increasingly touchy(aggressive) about anyone near his back end.

If you can find a competent vet that fits into your budget, you may consider getting it removed.

[TBROCKS]

http://www.vsso.org/index.php/education-new/cancer-information-new/cancer-in-dogs-by-location-new/9-education-1/education/383-rectal-tumors
The first sentence when you click on the link is: cancerous and benign tumors occur with equal frequency in dogs.
So maybe there is a good (or at least 50% chance) that this is not cancer. Not second guessing your vet (I do human medicine) but I wouldn’t let go of my dog in this situation without at least finding out that you aren’t dealing with a benign polyp and not cancer.

[OveroHunter]

I was quoted $1,500 by the vet for removal with no treatment. Went for second and third opinions and was told it would likely come back. I did not see the need to put a large breed 9 year old dog through the surgery when the prognosis was that bad and we were talking that much money to get maybe only a few more months out of him. Had the prognosis been better we could have borrowed the money from family, but going into debt did not look like it would put him in a much better position to enjoy his life.

We were also told that there was a very real risk with any surgery back there that he would lose all control of his bowel movements and again, this is an indoor dog. The idea that we could pay a minimum of $1500 just for the removal (no treatment) and that it may only extend his life a few months and on top of all that he could lose all control for the rest of his life and have to live outdoors just didn’t make any sense to put the old man through. The tumor never caused him pain until it burst on Sunday.

We did our homework, talked to multiple vets, and did the best by our dog, but please judge me for how I care for my animals.

ETA: That came out kind of ugly. You’re all posters that I have grown to respect over the years. My emotions are running high.

[TBROCKS]

[QUOTE=OveroHunter;8517010]
I was quoted $1,500 by the vet for removal with no treatment. Went for second and third opinions and was told it would likely come back. I did not see the need to put a large breed 9 year old dog through the surgery when the prognosis was that bad and we were talking that much money to get maybe only a few more months out of him. Had the prognosis been better we could have borrowed the money from family, but going into debt did not look like it would put him in a much better position to enjoy his life.

We were also told that there was a very real risk with any surgery back there that he would lose all control of his bowel movements and again, this is an indoor dog. The idea that we could pay a minimum of $1500 just for the removal (no treatment) and that it may only extend his life a few months and on top of all that he could lose all control for the rest of his life and have to live outdoors just didn’t make any sense to put the old man through. The tumor never caused him pain until it burst on Sunday.

We did our homework, talked to multiple vets, and did the best by our dog, but please judge me for how I care for my animals.[/QUOTE]

NO judgment, I was just throwing it out there, that it might not be cancer. Of course you’re doing the best you can for your dog. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

[Zu_Zu]

no need to ‘qualify’ to anyone !

obviously you’ve done your ‘homework’

and

I am certain you love your handsome lad and are doing EVERYTHING possible for him ~

Bless you for loving and caring for him ~ ((hugs)) ~

[OveroHunter]

[QUOTE=TBROCKS;8517022]
NO judgment, I was just throwing it out there, that it might not be cancer. Of course you’re doing the best you can for your dog. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.[/QUOTE]

I’m sorry, you guys have been very kind. I’m a nut for dragging on and on like this.

[jen-s]

[QUOTE=OveroHunter;8517047]
I’m sorry, you guys have been very kind. I’m a nut for dragging on and on like this.[/QUOTE]

You’re not a nut. You love your dog and you don’t want to lose him. Every single one of us has been in the same spot before. (((((((hugs))))))) and jingles!

[vxf111]

How about a gauze pad vet-wrapped carefully on just the limited area that’s weeping? Not a long term solution but something to make the limited time more easy on you/him?

[TBROCKS]

A few palliative type things to consider:
“Adaptic” dressing. This is a petroleum jelly impregnated mesh gauze that does really well not sticking to wounds.
“Gelfoam”: this is a topical dressing, comes in a compressed little block, that when applied turns into kind of a “clot” and helps control bleeding.
Topical epinephrine. Can soak a gauze pad with this, place it on, and help control the bleeding.

[JoZ]

My most wonderful soul-mate of a cat suffered from anal cancer. After the diagnosis, the vet sent me home with many syringes of painkiller to squirt orally. And I assumed that meant two things (1) the end was very near and (2) he must be in horrible pain. I gave him the meds and sure enough, he was quiet and depressed and out of it. Then I forgot one dose. He met me on my pillow with his giant purr and personality, as if to say “why are you drugging me up like that, I can’t be a CAT with all that stuff in my system!”

So I didn’t finish the painkiller and had at least another six months of happy, loving kitty and bloody butt prints. Big difference between the mess made by a 14 lb cat versus a 90+ lb dog I’d imagine. I feel very comfortable with what I did. I strongly believe that IF he was in tremendous pain, it was outweighed by his zest for life. As soon as it wasn’t, I put him to sleep. If I had ever gotten to the point where wound or mess management was more than I could deal with, I would have had him put to sleep.

[Rallycairn]

Since you asked WWYD, I would probably at least try what we have done with two of ours in the past in their final days/ weeks when they needed assistance for most things, including relieving themselves - set up a nursing/ hospice room like a bathroom with a nonporous floor that can be mopped easily.

Use x-pens or baby gates as necessary to keep the area safe and manageable. Lots of throwaway bedding. In your case secretions could hopefully be kept cleaned up and not damage anything, and then brief trips outside should not expose the oozing area to too much contamination.

Might buy you a few more dignified weeks and your dog won’t feel so ostracized. Hopefully he won’t just whine the whole time at not being in the bedroom.

You said in your OP a vet appt was set for later in the week - did the vet have any ideas?

[jetsmom]

Maybe duct tape a large gauze pad inside a pair of men’s boxer briefs and put on backwards so tail comes out crotch. (You may need to cut the crotch opening a little. ) I’m thinking boxer briefs instead of boxers so there is elastic around leg to contain any fluids.

[glfprncs]

I had to say goodbye to my boy last Friday night. He was 16 1/2, had Cushing’s disease, had a bout with pancreatitis in mid December, and had a stroke Friday (the 29th) while I was at work.

I always promised my boy that I wouldn’t allow him to live without dignity in the end, and that if he was clearly in pain, I wouldn’t prolong his suffering for my selfish reasons.

He could’ve spent the weekend at the ER vet receiving treatment and might have bounced back again (he did just that with pancreatitis in December). However, sitting on the ER vet’s floor with him, unable to stand, his intestines cramping every now and then excreting diarrhea all over himself, I couldn’t put him through any more. He didn’t owe me anything.

My boy had a large ulcerized tumor on his right shoulder blade. It wasn’t cancerous, just an unsightly mess, and it wouldn’t heal (we dealt with it for almost a year). It bled and oozed and, like your boy, required regular clean up. When I cleaned it up, it clearly was painful to him. That said, it was on his shoulder, not on his anus.

In addition, a co-worker had a hound with an anal tumor who chose to have it surgically removed. It gave them another 3 or 4 months before it returned. It was very painful for the dog at that time.

As hard as it is, take your emotions out of it and look at the daily activity of your dog. Is he in pain? Does he eat well? Is he interested in doing some of the same things he used to do? Is he living a quality of life? If he’s having more bad days than good…

[oldbutnotdead]

it’s time. He wants to live like he’s always lived and isn’t able to do so. He whines and wants to be with you at night and can’t be. Set him free. I’m not callous-making that decision for my dogs and horses rips pieces from my heart. Hugs.

[DPT2013]

My dog lives in diapers due to incontinence issues that have failed every treatment. She seems happy and healthy otherwise so I couldn’t justify putting her down. She’s about 80 lbs. I buy human diapers (either the XL Goodnites for kids who wet the bed or depends-generic brand). The Goodnites seem to work best (for her). I just cut a hole for her tail and they don’t seem to bother her at all.

I could never make a dog who was used to living inside live outside permanently, especially if they seemed unhappy about it. If that’s the only option, I would put him down.

[oldbutnotdead]

Lest you think that I am heartless, I am at the vet’s waiting to see if one of my dogs has cancer. Hugs.