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WWYD: Working the Neuro Horse (updated post #46)

I think most horses benefit from doing SOMETHING. In general, if a horse is pasture sound, then unless the horse has major back issues or the rider weighs 300 lbs, it will probably be fine to go for walking hacks. Horses that are NQR usually benefit from a little adventure, both for some muscle tone and mental health.

Is she safe to ride when not in full work? Did your vet seem to feel that it was a matter of time before she starts developing more advanced Nuero deficits or behaviors? If she is well behaved and a good egg, with just the symptoms you describe, I’d feel comfortable starting with walking hacks and moving up to trotting/cantering. If it all goes well, I would be comfortable doing some dressage work. I would absolutely NOT take the horse cross country and NOT do any jumping.

I’d guess there are a lot of older horses in the world that have nuero issues that are at least as bad as this that are still being used as school horses. And horses that have been nerved, etc. etc.

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As someone who had a substantial injury from a horse that was “recovered” from EPM and that was showing in the hunters at 3’6",but had a history of tripping every once in a while. I would never ride a horse with a history of neurologic issues. I will never know if what happened to me was just one of those things or because of EPM. But I am not willing to take that chance ever again.
Horses can trip or spook at any time. Even if they are 100% they can trip or worse. Personally, it is not worth the risk to me to add on more chances of things going wrong.

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I think I would ride a recovered neuro horse pending I was 100% confident that the horse had many symptom free years between treatment and my theoretical riding. I would not consider a history of tripping to be symptom free though. And I do NOT ride horses that trip. Or rear. Hard pass on both of those.

When I lived up near Tryon, I rode for a fox hunter. One young ish (high dollar) hunt horse had some some symptoms that to me and others indicated EPM/neuro issues. Owner refused to have horse tested. I was hacking horse out on a groomed, flat, dry grass trail; long trotting along happily. Horse tripped and face planted. I got pitched off; I rank this fall in my “top 3”. Horse had grass stains on his blaze and I had a purple softball on my shoulder.

Horse went down hunting and wiped out another horse/rider pair and was asked to not come back, I heard. Other accounts indicated it wasn’t the first time and/or that more than one other horse got wrecked out.

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I don’t know any horse that hasn’t tripped. I had one who tripped at the canter and we went face first into the ground. There was nothing wrong with him.
I did put “recovered” in quotes. Was he really, who knows for sure. He kept winning at big shows at 3’6", he was not my horse. And I never got on him again.

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Well sure I trip too. Any horse can do anything but that’s different than “history of tripping /known tripper”. I guess I should have been clearer in my post

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OP, so sorry you are faced with this difficult question. What are her symptoms under saddle? That would impact my answer.

The neuro symptoms you’ve described seem mild enough the average owner probably wouldn’t notice them. So, what lead you down the diagnostic rabbit hole besides the bunny hop?

Plenty of people ride neurological horses. There’s probably one in every barn, at this case.

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I should have been clearer too. :smiley: Looking back, after my accident, he did trip a few times in the years before. Not enough to shoot up a red flag though. He certainly wasn’t stumbling around the 3’6" hunters. I never saw him trip in the ring.

It’s a personal choice to get on any horse. I am not ever getting on a horse that has been diagnosed with a neurological problem. Whether they seem 100% or not. As it is, I am lucky to be riding at all.

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Perfectly sensible to have hard stops on what you’re willing to risk your neck on! Horses are dangerous enough without any complications!

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I have a neurological disease myself (MS).

I would NOT get up on a horse who I knew had neurological problems.

Sometimes a nerve, an important nerve for keeping upright, just does not work. This is why I fell down a lot without warning just walking around on my own two feet. One minute walking confidently, the next second I was on the ground, no warning.

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@Jackie_Cochran Good analogy. I have nerve damage in one foot. Sometimes I take a step and my foot’s not there to support me.

If I was a horse, no one should ride me. I’d be fine with treats and handwalks.

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I put down two horses due to neurological issues. Even keeping them in a pasture was a risk. I decided to put down the first one when I watched him buck then fall to the ground because he didn’t know what his legs were doing, then he couldn’t get up because he couldn’t get his back legs to work.

It’s sad, because neurological disorders are not painful or uncomfortable for the horse, but the vets told me the risk of injuring themselves is very high.

btw, the horse in my picture was one of the affected horses.

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Coming on just to drop off this video to watch


It’s Dr. Johnson’s lecture from 3 months ago about EDM.

There are so many incorrect statements in this thread and I am asking nicely for folks to consider spending an hour and change of their time to please watch this and listen to one of the foremost Equine Neurologists in the world.

(Full disclosure I work as an Admin at NBC and she is a clinician that I support. )

The actual facts about EDM are here.

https://upenn.app.box.com/s/43x4y0f3obt4aa1qjw8djd060cvci2fe

**11/2023 Link to video updated. You can watch or download from this new location **

Em

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Hi, I feel the need to jump in here. I had a wonderful horse for 6 years that I had to put down in what should have been the prime of his life because he had EDM. EDM is a progressive disease. It is still unclear if horses develop it later in life or if their symptoms are so midl as young horses it is not noticed until they are older. I personally think it is not noticed until it progresses to a certain point. Maybe the horse is green? Maybe it is just not that scopey but perfect for the American Hunter where people pay big $ for pretty, decent jumping, good moving horses to jump 3’ and lower. Often a little neurologic looks like a great mover. This is a progressive disease and when it hits and how fast it progressives seems different with each horse. There are tons of horses going around top shows successfully who are just a little neurologic, like a half or less, some even a one. Who is to say if and when that progresses. The Chronicle wrote an article about my horse Sheldon. Happy to discuss EDM with anyone who is interested. Here is the article. http://read.uberflip.com/i/1089065-march-11-18-2019/33?fbclid=IwAR3Ny2t5we8mUmJ-LsC97HFWaiD2UlOv2drrT1ULpEfWV9a9OnFucU7_M5E

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FWIW, A person I know mentioned today that they spoke with a vet from abroad who said, and I quote “Oh no we don’t have that (EDM) over here.”

Now before we fall over in shock considering that a large population of imported warmbloods DO indeed have EDM, let us not forget that the USA is a MUCH bigger country. Commonality of beliefs and knowledge is NOT widespread.

As long as we have Flat earthers, we will have vets who don’t believe in or pass on knowledge about ailments that they personally don’t condone.

Em

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I think this depends on the type of neurological disorder. There are neuro diseases that sure seem to cause pain responses in the horse.

I had a vet tell me once we can’t rule out pain, we can only diagnose it. YMMV.

@Xctrygirl thank you for the video. I listened to it on my commute home – that was a nice shout out to you in it. A very informative video, I wish we knew more. Thank you guys for all you do.

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That lecture was very interesting. Thanks!

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Thank you for this! It was really interesting and informative. I’m going to watch it again.

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It’s interesting to me how such a horrific disease when presented competently and without drama but full of facts can become truly interesting and engaging.

The owners of the horses that have it are ones I feel most badly for. There is literally no 100% foolproof way to buy a horse and know that it absolutely, positively will not have this. I am rethinking the entirety of how I buy and sell horses with this knowledge going forward.

This is just a really scary disease to me and I am fortunate to work where I do and learn more about it monthly.

Em

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I signed up to be able to watch all the First Tuesday webinars. I’m really looking forward to them all, but especially the one on laminitis. Thank you again. I wouldn’t have learned of these opportunities w/o you!

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There is a First Tuesday lecture from April 2021 on laminitis here: https://vimeo.com/536538947