Xanax use in horses?

[nevergiveup]

I have a broodmare – a very nice broodmare – that I cannot trailer. She doesn’t have a huge issue with loading, it’s only once the trailer starts moving. She goes absolutely berserk – to the point where she injures herself. This is not a straight or slant load trailer. She has an entire box stall, so while I’m sure claustrophobia is a factor in this, it’s not exacerbated by a being in a standing stall. We’ve tried Ace before, and even Dorm, but once the trailer starts moving, it’s as if she hasn’t been given anything at all.

A couple of things have come up lately where it’s highly likely that I MUST trailer her to the vet clinic fairly soon, which is about 45 mins away. I’m wondering if anyone has ever known Xanax to be used on horses in a situation like this? It seems it’s being used in dogs and cats with success. So perhaps it could be used on horses as well?

One complicating factor in this is that she has a foal at her side now, and I cannot risk having her injure her own foal during a panic attack. I would more than likely separate mom & foal in adjacent box stalls for the ride as a precaution, but knowing this mare and her moving trailer phobia, that will cause even MORE anxiety in her.

I’m thinking that Xanax just might work. Has anyone ever tried this or have any info whatsoever?

Thanks!!

[poniesinthenight]

Vet

And what would be wrong with the vet doing a farm call. Isn’t that much safer in the long run.

[deltawave]

Benzodiazepines do not always have the same effects in horses as they do in people, and are rarely used outside the setting of general anesthesia if I’m not mistaken.

Self-medicating one’s horses with human meds is a REALLY bad idea. Ace and dormosedan need to be given to a horse BEFORE any excitement is happening. Perhaps the vet could recommend something else to sedate the horse?

Why not have the vet come to the horse?

[ReSomething]

If it got that bad I’d talk to the vet about a horse ambulance and full on sedation, but that’s only if money is no object. Or even transporting the horse sedated to the point of unconciousness and down.
Is this some surgical procedure that absolutely cannot be performed at the farm? What does the vet say?

[runwayz]

Heck, I think I would take the Xanax, turn up the radio, and just drive!

[nevergiveup]

[QUOTE=poniesinthenight;6439690]
And what would be wrong with the vet doing a farm call. Isn’t that much safer in the long run.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it IS safer in the long run. But surgeries on the mare or foal cannot be performed on the farm.

[deltawave]

If you have no alternative, I guess I’d give the mare some oral dormosedan gel, safely sequester the foal in a separate compartment, wrap the mare up really well and just get her there. I’m going to assume the trailer is safe and suitable and the driver is extremely cautious and thoughtful as a default. Earplugs can sometimes be really helpful if you think that road noise contributes to the problem.

If one particular sort of trailer seems to set the mare off, consider a different type, like a stock trailer, where she may have more room.

[nevergiveup]

@deltawave;6439700

Benzodiazepines do not always have the same effects in horses as they do in people, and are rarely used outside the setting of general anesthesia if I’m not mistaken.

From what I have read, it is used for veterinary purposes to calm anxiety episodes in dogs and cats quite successfully, as is diazapam (valium). Alprazolam (xanax) has a much shorter half-life than diazepam, is more potent than diazepam, and is reportedly more affective reducing anxiety.

[QUOTE=deltawave;6439700]Self-medicating one’s horses with human meds is a REALLY bad idea. Ace and dormosedan need to be given to a horse BEFORE any excitement is happening.
[/quote]

I went back and read my OP, as I didn’t think I’d said anything about me administering xanax to my horse myself. And obviously, one needs a prescription for the stuff anyway. As I did mention, this horse has been sedated with both Ace and Dorm (separately) before any “excitement” or attempt to load into the trailer. Also, as I mentioned, this horse loads okay (surprisingly). It’s when we start moving that she loses her sh*t – right through the tranq. She wakes up instantly. And she WILL either injure herself or destroy my trailer (or BOTH). It’s some kind of psychological/anxiety thing with the trailer. She is otherwise a very nice mare that is not overly difficult, hot, or “suicidal”.

It’s a serious enough situation where it’s time to think outside the box. I suppose fully sedating her might be an option, but a difficult one logistically, due to the foal at her side. Also, if she woke up mid ride, it could be a total disaster. DVM’s do occasionally use diazapam with horses. I’ve seen a combo of Valium and Ketamine used for castration. My personal thoughts are, if Xanax is more effective with panic and anxiety, then why not simply ASK if anyone has ever known their DVM to use it on equines?

[nevergiveup]

@deltawave;6440278

If you have no alternative, I guess I’d give the mare some oral dormosedan gel, safely sequester the foal in a separate compartment, wrap the mare up really well and just get her there.

We’ve tried Dorm. Quite a decent dose of it too – before loading her, so she’s not panicking at the time it’s administered. She seems completely out of it – until we start moving. Then she instantly wakes up and completely loses it.

@deltawave;6440278

If one particular sort of trailer seems to set the mare off, consider a different type, like a stock trailer, where she may have more room.

It is a stock-type trailer – and it’s a cozy box stall. Can’t get much better than that! :lol:

[lilitiger2]

@ReSomething;6439825

If it got that bad I’d talk to the vet about a horse ambulance and full on sedation, but that’s only if money is no object. Or even transporting the horse sedated to the point of unconciousness and down.

I would definitely consider this-have vet come out and dose for the trip. That is the kind of box I would be thinking about!! (seeing as it sounds pretty unmanageable otherwise, would also love to hear what your vet has to say)

As an aside, Xanax is a terrible drug for people. There are much better (less addicting, easier to get off, no irreversible memory problems, don’t exacerbate depression) medications that are far more effective in helping people manage anxiety and panic. Although it does work fast, a nice attribute, it is NOT considered a drug of choice for anxiety, actually! But obviously that has nothing to do with your horse! And I do wish you good luck there, hope a solution presents itself!

[deltawave]

From what I have read, it is used for veterinary purposes to calm anxiety episodes in dogs and cats quite successfully, as is diazapam (valium). Alprazolam (xanax) has a much shorter half-life than diazepam, is more potent than diazepam, and is reportedly more affective reducing anxiety.

Yes, but horses are not dogs, cats, or humans. I can’t put my finger on a reference, and I hope a vet will chime in, but as far as I can recall the use of benzos in horses in isolation is virtually never done. Seems that paradoxical excitement or aggression might be the reason IIRC.

Although Xanax may not be an ideal long-term drug for people with anxiety in general, it is VERY good for situations like the OP is describing (in humans): a short-term, anxiety-provoking situation such as an MRI, plane trip, funeral, etc. :yes:

[animaldoc]

Benzodiazepenes (Xanax/alprazolam, Valium/diazepam, Versed/midazolam) are not used as sedatives in adult horses because they cause excitement and increased locomotor activity (pacing). They do not have this effect in young foals (and will provide nice sedation). So in adults, they are used in combination with other drugs (ie. ketamine) for anesthesia, but not alone.

Ace is really your best option since it doesn’t cause ataxia like the alpha2s - but I see you’ve tried that before with poor results. Ideally you would be able to do some training and get her over the phobia, but now that she has a foal at her side, that’s probably out unless you wean early and then train her.

Why do you have to trailer her? What’s the procedure?

[x-halt-salute]

I’ve been in a similar situation – needing to transport a mare to the vet hospital who typically panics, thrashes, and injures herself in the closed/moving trailer (but loads fine). I had tried ace in the past with no change in trailer behavior. On this occasion my vet prepared an injection with 3 components – detomidine, xylazine, and one other thing (can’t remember what the last one was) and it was administered ahead of loading and she was left in her stall to get sleepy while legs were wrapped, trailer was backed into loading area, etc. She certainly reanimated a bit once we started moving and moved around in the box stall a little when we were stopped at lights, but did none of the crazy antics that usually have the trailer rocking and me praying she will come out in one piece. Maybe your vet could tell you if a “cocktail” would be more effective than detomidine alone?

I have no experience with or knowledge about Xanax, but would not feel comfortable trying it unless my vet had some experience using it for similar situations.

Good luck getting her to the clinic – I know it is frustrating and nerve-wracking to transport those extremely anxious shippers!

[nevergiveup]

We’ve been having an on-going colic scare with her for the last 5 days. She shows signs of extreme discomfort – pawing, going down, zero appetite, and apathy about her foal because of the pain. She improves 100% with Banamine and Dipyrone (or Buscopan), but symptoms reoccur 12-18 hours later. She is passing manure regularly. The vet’s been out several times, and suspects gas colic. We’ve literally thrown everything but the kitchen sink at her. :lol: All vitals are normal. All bloodwork is normal. Rectal palp was normal twice, but once there seemed to be a touch of gas distension. Mare is outside 24/7 in a large, fairly dry paddock with access to a well bedded 12 x 16 stall with fans. With the heat we’ve been experiencing, I’ve been checking and changing water up to 4 times a day, and hosing her down (she loves it). The hay I feed is admittedly rich, but she’s been eating it for 3 years now with no issue. I rarely grain my horses, as they’re easy keepers, and fat & happy from just hay. If weight starts to drop too quickly with nursing, I do grain them. This mare hasn’t lost significant weight with nursing. This is her first foal, and she’s an excellent mother. Very attentive but not neurotic. We’ve started her on ProBios, psyllium, and Ulcerguard, and while she’s been wormed with decent regularity, I gave her an Equimax 3 days ago to cover Tapes. I’m worried about her, and frankly, so is my vet. If the episodes don’t stop, then I’m not so sure there’s much more we can do without bringing her into either New Bolton or Mid Atlantic Equine for additional tests – whatever those may be.

So far, today, she’s been symptom free. She passed a good amount of normal, softish manure an hour ago. We’re coming up on 18 hours since her last doses of Dipyrone and Banamine though. I’m pounding on wood as I write this, but maybe – just maybe – we’re out of the woods?

Anyway, I probably should have started another thread for this, but this is why her trailer problem has ME spooked lately and is the reason I could use a Xanax right about now!! :lol:

ETA: Vet has also ultra-sounded her uterus to make sure nothing funky was going on there post foaling. All looks normal. Foal was born at the end of June.

[lilitiger2]

[QUOTE=deltawave;6440494]
Although Xanax may not be an ideal long-term drug for people with anxiety in general, it is VERY good for situations like the OP is describing (in humans): a short-term, anxiety-provoking situation such as an MRI, plane trip, funeral, etc. :yes:[/QUOTE]

I know nothing about benzos in horses but I do know, out here anyway, even in that situation, most competent docs are reluctant to start down the benzo trail, given the very real and painful hazards, even for PRN use (but obviously, to each his own!). Some will offer something like Klonipin (still benzo, but for some reason better tolerated, takes longer to act, not as immediately reinforcing and less likely to lead to “crashing”), but most try antidepressants, maybe or a beta blocker, in addition to nonpharma interventions.

But interested to hear about benzos in the equine world!

[tradewind]

Not that this will help in the immediate future, but my horse looses his shit in a stock tariler but is fine in a two horse straight load and a five horse side load. You absolutely can not put him in a stock trailer, he bashes his head in, kicks and thrashes etc…After this crisis perhaps you could experiment with a different trailer type.

[StellaTMK]

before you try to medicate, what is her problem on the trailer? Is she scrambling? If so, Im not sure sedation will help. it didn’t help with us, it actually made it a bit worse.

Does your problem sound like this?

My gelding is a confirmed scrambler, he will lean against the divider and try to step up onto the wall with his hind feet. He is worse in a loosebox situation. The perfect situation for him is a straight load in a standard stall but with room on either side. Think 3 horse across in the center stall. He has room to spread his legs but also has the confinement and security he needs to stabalize himself. Right now we are trailering in a straight load 2-Horse with the center divider pulled over to form a triangle since I can’t go out and buy a new trailer right now. He prefers to ride straight but the extra room allows him to find space to stretch his legs. The problem now occurs when we do a “S” curve like for an exit ramp, at the beginning he will feel the turn and secure himself next to the wall or divider, then when we turn to go the other way it’s a bit of a scramble till he finds the other wall, in a straight stall with no wall on either side he is just fine. He wears bell boots, standing wraps, and hock boots for protection since he has banged himself up. With full length shipping boots he steps on the bottoms and then fights more trying to pull them off like a human pulling off a sock by standing on the toe of it.

can you set up a video and see what your mare is doing? It only took us 20 yards down the driveway and a slight turn to confirm what was going on in the back of the trailer. My boy will still self load and is happy to be in the trailer, just has a problem with turns (even slight adjustments) when we are not set up the correct way for him.

I hope you find out what the problem is, It’s a scary situation to hear what sounds like them going down back there.

[deltawave]

I do not hesitate to give someone a small dose of xanax or ativan if they are having an MRI, going on an airplane when they are terrified to do so, or heading to a funeral if someone has died tragically and they are pretty sure they are going to fall to pieces. I hardly see that as “going down the benzo trail”.

And gee, I thought I was pretty competent.

[lilitiger2]

Well, perhaps in your neck of the woods that is more common, or you have not had experience with the serious problems with some of the benzos, which is a good thing. Or your patient population is just healthier! People come to see me when thngs are going poorly, not well.

The reason I mention competent is that there are docs who happily prescribe them, in many cases to clients with unknown alcohol consumption habits, or who are already depressed, or who have memory problems and the clients wind up with me, in crisis. And the docs continue to offer them, to these very clients, even to clients who are trying hard, and seriously suffering, to taper (wisely) and quit, so no, I do not consider that competent. I’m sure you don’t do that.

Interestingly, the folks I do see with problems (and actually have seen many, although less common now as more are on other drugs) are not meth-dealing, crackhead addicts/criminals, these are nice suburban middle class folk who mentioned to their friendly physician that they felt “a little worried”.

Its received some press out here, so my experience is that fewer docs seem to be starting with benzos and try something else.

But, as I said, perhaps your population is healthier!

[nevergiveup]

[QUOTE=tradewind;6440763]
Not that this will help in the immediate future, but my horse looses his shit in a stock tariler but is fine in a two horse straight load and a five horse side load. You absolutely can not put him in a stock trailer, he bashes his head in, kicks and thrashes etc…After this crisis perhaps you could experiment with a different trailer type.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. I know I can get her to LOAD in a straight load trailer, but I’ve never tried moving her in one. I’m not quite sure how I could transport her with her foal in a straight loader. Hmmm… It’s certainly something that I wouldn’t mind trying after her foal is weaned. Maybe she’d be better with a buddy next to her (that isn’t losing their sh*t! :lol:)

Thanks for the suggestion!