Yearling (ish) filly blow ups

[Arzny]

I’d never use a blocker tie ring for an adult horse, much less a baby. I feel that they’re useful for teaching a horse to test a tie, and that’s about it. I’m very risk adverse and mine are actually never truly hard tied. They have string on their halters and the rope / cross ties get clipped to that. My chances for a major sit back or injury are fairly slim this way.

For my babies, I start by looping the rope around a bar in their stall. I hold the tail of the rope with my hand and can tighten up or loosen as needed. Eventually I transfer them to a bungee type tie, which is what I generally see used on the racetrack.

[OverandOnward]

I don’t do this kind of training myself. I know people who use a used tire hanging from a tree limb, with a very sturdy tree that has been trimmed up so that all limbs are well above a horse’s head. This is located where it is in constant sight of the people, and the horse/baby has a constant view of other horses.

That’s a rather old school method. But the idea is that the baby horse can pull without hitting a hard stop. They can test it. And eventually they learn that life is easier to just stand there and watch the show.

[quietann]

I arrived at the blocker tie after watching my mare panic, rear, and nearly flip over on cross ties that had hay string that did not break. Her halter broke, thank g-d, yet another reason why I use leather halters for hard tying.

I’ve told this story before. I’d been away, and someone who was riding my mare for me had cross tied her. A pony in the arena spooked, dumped his rider, and ran out into the barn aisle and basically through my mare. She broke one cross tie but not the other trying to get away from him. No one bothered to tell me about it, nor that she had become terrified of the pony.

This pony, BTW, was no rogue. He was a good guy but any horse can spook.

So I had cross tied her, and someone came into the barn leading the pony straight for her. And she lost her ever-loving mind. I caught her and put her in a stall, where she proceeded to stand and shake for a while.

Blocker tie rings were essential in getting her used to the pony again. We started by tying her in the wash stall so he’d never be coming right toward her. The softer pull from them was something she could deal with, even when scared. Eventually she didn’t mind him at all.

The mare BTW was overall a safe horse as long as one could sit a short but violent spook, but she has a large personal space bubble and gets very anxious about other horses invading it. She got great training in Horse Manners 101 from her breeder.

[Montanas_Girl]

A horse that panics like that is not ready to be hard tied, never mind cross tied.

[endlessclimb]

Anyone who hasn’t had success with a blocker ring doesn’t know how to use one, or used the wrong kind of rope, or used a rope that is too short.

The idea is that the rope slides through, like what @Montanas_Girl described with the rope looped around something. If the rope is grabbing hard, it’s the wrong kind of rope. You want a smooth rope, like a not-filled-with-dirt yacht rope or a brand new nylon rope. It needs to slide easily. Your old leadrope that can nearly stand up by itself it’s so weathered and dirty is not the one.

The rope also needs to be longer than your 9’ lead rope. I use a 12 footer generally, but for one very committed puller I bought 100 feet of yacht line specifically for this purpose. The horse pulled about 50’ out before they finally realized they were not going to get that “SNAP you’re free” reward for the ill behavior. The next try, 20’. The next they didn’t pull at all.

Frankly, it is the safest way to tie if you’re concerned about injury, assuming you do your homework and get the right equipment. They’re also the only way to safely re-train one who has learned to set back. Just my $0.02.

[Bluey]

First, we can’t safely train any horse not to pull when in dire straits, like something, even another horse running into it.

The blocker ring and such are tools for specific horses and situations and can be used and misused.

The best way to have a horse that stands tied under most circumstances is to be sure horse understands being tied, is taught first to lead and give and stand there and then tied.

We lead mares and just born foals, a few hours old, from the big pen they foal to the stalls with large runs they will stay until after foal heat, then they are turned out.
Mares are very good to handle, foals get a foal halter on, a tail rope and a handler that knows how to use both extremely well and gently, never pulling or letting foal pull.
The timing is in the release, the foal is never held back, mostly followed and gently directed.

We lead mare and foal across the barn yard to the mare stalls and in those, every day we clean stall many times, run twice a day, while cleaning run we halter foal, brush lightly pick feet, use fly spray if necessary, while mare tied to the fence and groomed, than tie foal for the few minutes it takes to clean run and repeat next cleaning time.
That for about three weeks, when mare is hand bred if suitable, then mare and foal turned out to pasture with other mares and foals.

Foals are tied by the mare after they are giving reliably and in a way that if they hit the end of the rope, it slides back and forth.
Fence has several soft pipes, that have some give and rope goes from foal halter over suitable height pipe and is tied to lower pipe.

We never had a foal or later weanling or adult horse hurt that learned this way and they remember all their lives.

Still, if something runs into a tied horse, well, horse will panic and struggle and in that, fight a rope he is tied with, can’t help it.

Foal at almost three weeks old, tied with mare while we clean pen.
This one foal was extremely smart and had learned to pull on the bottom knot and undo it where we wrapped rope below, we had him already tied a bit further than his dam, rope below on the other side of post, so he could not reach it.
It sure made easy weaning time, when they already had some handling manners installed.
This one made a wonderful big strapping colt and was a real gentleman right off once weaned.

[quietann]

What does one do, then, with a horse that ties reliably 999 times out of 1000, where one had absolutely no reason to expect the horse will.pull back? She’s had 4 incidents in nearly 17 years of my ownership, the last in 2017, all due to humans being stupid. People kept telling me she would learn she could get away and turn into a habitual tie breaker, so she needed to be tied to a patience pole for hours in a rope halter to “fight it out.” I chose to use a Blocker ring instead. I’ve been waiting for years for her to start breaking ties habitually, so what gives? In any case she’s retired and nearly 27, so she doesn’t get tied a lot, and when she does she’s good.

[quietann]

Yes! For my mare, I used 12 to 14 foot tie ropes. It was always the SNAP of hitting the end of a hard tied rope that made her panic - and she never did learn to set back, in years of being hard tied. I just saw it happen once and didn’t want it to happen again.

[Montanas_Girl]

@quietann

hat does one do, then, with a horse that ties reliably 999 times out of 1000, where one had absolutely no reason to expect the horse will.pull back? She’s had 4 incidents in nearly 17 years of my ownership, the last in 2017, all due to humans being stupid.

Honestly, once a horse has learned to pull back, I don’t ever trust them to stand tied in an open space again. 4 incidents in 17 years is 3 incidents too many; after the first one, I wouldn’t trust the horse again. With those types, I will only tie them either in a stall/grooming stall (so there is a wall to keep them from flying backwards), with a Blocker ring in an area where they can’t endanger anyone else by going back, or not at all.

I hate crossties in an aisle because they are just about the worst-case scenario for any horse that isn’t 100% solid while tied. Crossties in general are not a great idea anytime there isn’t a wall behind the horse. I can’t remember the last time I used crossties - probably in 2015. My colt starter made a really good point about crossties a few years ago: “I teach horses to stand, and then I don’t need to truss them up like a Thanksgiving turkey to work with them.”

Stupid things are going to happen around horses. Period. That’s why they have to be completely solid in the basics; we can’t control everything that goes on in their environment, no matter how hard we try. For example, I was tacking up one of my mares last week for a lesson, tied to my trailer. She’d been out of work for a month due to a combination of a vacation on my part and a mechanical issue with the trailer. It was 40 degrees out and insanely windy. I had just put my (heavy Western) saddle on her, but hadn’t yet done up the cinch, when a gust of wind yanked the steel trailer dressing room door loose from the twine I was using to hold it open and slammed it shut, about 18" from her face. The mare jumped hard to her left. The saddle fell off and crashed hard to the ground at her feet. She jumped back. When she hit the end of her lead rope, she didn’t sit back. She stopped, snorted, and then stepped forward. That is how a horse that is truly trained to tie responds when it hits the end of a rope. I won’t ever hard tie one that doesn’t have this skill instilled firmly enough that it is a reflex.

[RedHorses]

@Montanas_Girl

My colt starter made a really good point about crossties a few years ago: “I teach horses to stand, and then I don’t need to truss them up like a Thanksgiving turkey to work with them.”

It makes a great quote, but has holes big enough to drive a semi through. The obvious one being that the majority of cross tie use is about keeping other people and horses safe in environments with many people (and horses) who have a huge range of experience (and training).

[Montanas_Girl]

@RedHorses

The obvious one being that the majority of cross tie use is about keeping other people and horses safe in environments with many people (and horses) who have a huge range of experience (and training).

In my ~30 years of horse experience, I have seen crossties cause far more safety issues than they have solved.

My horses always stood quietly in them. Because they stood tied. But I still hate them in aisles.

[endlessclimb]

My horses straight tie, but I would appreciate them not eating/chewing/staining the fronts of the stalls. Inside the stalls is fair game. But the grooming area has crossties for this (very vain) reason.

[fivestrideline]

I don’t like TYING in aisles. Period. If it’s a main thoroughfare, don’t park your horse there.

That said, the crossties at my barn are in the aisle because of the setup. It’s a small, low key facility and it works, but I hated the setup at busy boarding barns!

[RedHorses]

I can believe that if you ignore the very basic keeping the horse in place so it’s not interfering with other people and horses in the barn that is the bare minimum effect of day to day, uneventful use of cross ties in boarding barns.

[Montanas_Girl]

@RedHorses

I can believe that if you ignore the very basic keeping the horse in place so it’s not interfering with other people and horses in the barn that is the bare minimum effect of day to day, uneventful use of cross ties in boarding barns.

And how “uneventful” is a 1200+ pound animal flying backwards down the aisle, dragging one or more crossties along with it?

I’m with @fivestrideline. Just don’t tie horses in the aisle, period. I understand why boarding barns are set up that way, but it causes all kinds of issues. No matter what type of ties are used. Largely because too many horses (especially in hunter/jumper and dressage barns!) are never trained to actually stand tied.

[RedHorses]

I agree it can be a PITA. Where I live it’s just not practical to have lots of extra space for grooming areas inside the barn. And outside areas are not usable for a large part of the year.

Where I am now there is essentially a cross aisle design. The door to the arena is opposite the mid barn door to the exterior. There is a set of cross ties in the main aisle, right beside this cross aisle. People have the tendency to put their horse on those ties so the horse is standing in the middle of both aisles - blocking every barn door from every other barn door. I honestly don’t understand how they can be that oblivious.

[OverandOnward]

Sometimes you have to train the people.

My last one, long gone now, was a sort-of reformed pullback. Incidents became so rare, it could be hard to impress on the farrier and others that if it did happen, it would be explosive. Dangerous to the horse and the humans.

I impressed the alternatives on those who needed to know. Blocker tie is wonderful but the person has to understand how to set it up for this horse. To much or too little tension can be a problem. So it became better to weave the rope through the stall bars. That kind of thing.

(Always a 10 to 12 ft lead. Of the right material for the options at the moment. I owned a collection of them that I kept in the trailer! )

Actually, as long as the human was right there, that horse stood most reliably with the rope over his neck. That worked well for the farrier! Who became good buddies with this horse as the two of them worked this out together.

[RedHorses]

That’s my point. The horse flying backwards is a very rare occurrence, happening once out of many hundreds of times horses are on cross ties. If it’s not rare, the cross ties aren’t the real problem in that barn.

Most of the cross tie problems I’ve seen are human ignorance in origin, and everyone was okay in spite of the human action.

[Texarkana]

@Montanas_Girl

Honestly, once a horse has learned to pull back, I don’t ever trust them to stand tied in an open space again.

Really? Do you mean all incidents of breaking/attempting to break free from being tied, or just the ones who truly learn to exploit pulling back to their advantage?

I feel like I’ve had pretty good luck reforming horses who have had tying problems in the past.

Putting a 1000 lb prey animal on a rope will never be 100% foolproof. But horses can learn to stand and control their reactions, even if they have had issues with tying in the past.

[Montanas_Girl]

I’ve worked in, taken lessons at, had a horse in training with, and/or boarded at over a dozen barns in my career. I’ve never been at a barn with aisle cross ties (or any hunter-oriented barn at all) where a horse sitting back and breaking free didn’t happen at least once every couple of months. I don’t consider that “rare”, but YMMV.

The absolute worst was a university facility where I worked. The trainer there didn’t believe in hard tying, so the cross ties all had zip tie “fuses” in them. Even horses that arrived with perfectly good manners quickly learned that a solid flip of the head was all that was required to break free. Loose horses were a near daily occurrence there. It drove me nutty.