Yearly Lease Price / Expectations / Advise PLEASE IN MIDWEST

[StellaBlue09]

This is my issue as well. Location, location, location. I can name off 3 barns that would probably be able to offer me a care lease pretty quickly, but all of them are at least another 30-45 minute commute. Realistically, having a closer barn will in time lead t more time to ride. If I’m adding another 2 hours in just drive time onto my riding then I’m limiting myself even more.

Moving trainers right now is a non negotiable item for me. I’m really happy with where I am, and I will curtail my expectations if needed in order to stay. I think what gets lost on this thread is that this industry is so diverse, not only throughout the country but throughout each individual community as well. It is very interesting to see what different areas the “norm” is.

[TheDBYC]

@Momateur

can’t figure why anyone would lease a horse these days, unless you’re somebody whose skill/needs will be totally different in a year.

Let’s say you have a budget of $30K. It won’t buy a nice hunter, but it’ll lease a nice hunter. Okay. But at the end of the year, then what? You’re left with no horse and your budget is gone. I’m honestly curious why people do it.

Many reasons. Off the top of my head:

1. Ability to walk away in the case of potentially career-ending medical issues. How many posts have I seen here on COTH where the poster is struggling to figure out what to do, having invested in a young, expensive prospect who develops an issue that means its career is over before it starts? And they can’t afford to care for that horse & a new one? Dozens of times.
2. Not knowing exactly what you need just yet, or if you’ll even want what you think you’ll need
3. Just as it is easier to get out of a rental house in the event of financial crisis than it is a house you own, getting out from under a leased horse is easier than selling one. Especially on the high & low ends of the market.
4. Training is expensive &, often, never to be recouped. I care leased (paying nothing but his board & routine medical) an FEI level dressage schoolmaster that had been a $75k as an unbacked prospect & had conservatively $200k of extremely correct training on him. That SOMEONE ELSE paid for & assumed all the risk & uncertainty involved. He could still compete to at least 3rd level comfortably & likely through 4th with careful management. To buy on my budget in this HCOL area I was likely limited to newly OTTB or maybe a young import (and the latter only if it had attempted to kill someone the week before ). only Sure, I could’ve gotten all ambitious & picky & said that I needed physical scope past 4th. A lot could happen in my life between a USDF Bronze & Silver. Even if it had been a paid lease, it was a no-brainer to lease this horse. He was quirky but AA safe, loved his job, had no qualms about using teachable moments (“Woman, that is not X. Do you need new contact lenses?”) & was very good at dressage with all the fancy buttons installed if you knew how to find them.
5. This might be specific to pony hunters; you need what you need & you need it NOW. And your budget is insufficient to buy a pony that is what you need now. I can afford to buy a pony that will be what we need in 4 years. It will be outgrown by next year. And even as a small adult, there isn’t enough I can do with a 13.2 Welsh X to justify owning one after my child outgrows it or quits riding. But I can lease it in my budget.

[joiedevie99]

@StellaBlue09

I think what gets lost on this thread is that this industry is so diverse, not only throughout the country but throughout each individual community as well. It is very interesting to see what different areas the “norm” is.

This is very true. I live in the suburbs of NYC. A substantial portion of the riding population in this area rides twice per week - Saturday and Sunday. A few others add in one late night or early morning ride mid week. Those of us who ride daily are in the minority. The close in suburbs tend to have two kinds of barns that cater to this reality - riding school type places and full training operations run by pros.

[touchstone]

@joiedevie99

This is very true. I live in the suburbs of NYC. A substantial portion of the riding population in this area rides twice per week - Saturday and Sunday. A few others add in one late night or early morning ride mid week. Those of us who ride daily are in the minority. The close in suburbs tend to have two kinds of barns that cater to this reality - riding school type places and full training operations run by pros.

Speaking as someone who used to ride every day and now lives in a city with a job that makes such a routine impossible, I think some of the posters dismissing what you can do in a few days a week are being awfully negative. Riding more is always better than riding less, but with a solid foundation, good instruction and some cross training, you can absolutely participate and progress in the sport on a more limited schedule. Lots of people train for marathons running three days a week.

Having your own horse on a limited schedule is obviously more expensive on a per-ride basis. But there are advantages too.

[StellaBlue09]

Thank you I whole heartedly agree!!! <3 <3 <3

[fordtraktor]

I own a barn full of working amateurs in Indiana. It isn’t that much different here even! I think a working mom, or a non-equine professional, or heck even a stay at home mom (especially with small kids) who makes it to the barn twice a week is doing pretty well, honestly. I can say for sure the only person here riding 5 days a week is the in-barn pro (keeping our horses ridden when we can’t!). I work from home so I know based on the barn traffic, lol

[atl_hunter]

@touchstone

@joiedevie99

This is very true. I live in the suburbs of NYC. A substantial portion of the riding population in this area rides twice per week - Saturday and Sunday. A few others add in one late night or early morning ride mid week. Those of us who ride daily are in the minority. The close in suburbs tend to have two kinds of barns that cater to this reality - riding school type places and full training operations run by pros.

Speaking as someone who used to ride every day and now lives in a city with a job that makes such a routine impossible, I think some of the posters dismissing what you can do in a few days a week are being awfully negative. Riding more is always better than riding less, but with a solid foundation, good instruction and some cross training, you can absolutely participate and progress in the sport on a more limited schedule. Lots of people train for marathons running three days a week.

Having your own horse on a limited schedule is obviously more expensive on a per-ride basis. But there are advantages too.

COVID-19 really changed our staffing, and I spent over a year working 12-14 hour days. In Atlanta, the nearest barns are 35+ minutes away with no traffic, and I can only ride one time a week. With the right program, that one day a week has brought be further than other programs where I rode 5 days a week, 2-3 of those days being lessons depending on the week. But I was very lucky as I found a program with NICE horses and I consider myself gifted to be able to train with the regular customers and not separately in an academy program.

I do have a horse, but he is in training out of state with a multi-disciplinary trainer. I only get to ride him on a long weekend (3 day) every 4-6 weeks. I have less interest in showing this year as the horse is doing well in the regular classes with the trainer, and he’s still green. But when I do ride him, all the jumps come up nicely and he’s significantly easier to ride than what I lesson on at home (likely because of all of his dressage training in combination with his hunter program).

I don’t agree that you can’t enjoy this sport by riding a few times a week or even a month. If you have the means to do it, and that’s what you want to do, then what is holding anyone back?

Where I struggle isn’t on my body strength - I struggle with not being acclimated to the heat and from a cardio perspective. Both my programs are demanding and my fitness would, indeed, be better if I could ride more regularly. I’ve come further in the outstanding home program and equally outstanding out of state program riding less than I ever believed was possible. I just need to figure out a way to challenge myself more from a cardio perspective mid week so I don’t have alerts going off on my Apple Watch. Hour long lessons with no stirrups here and there when you only ride once a week can be challenging, but believe it or not, I no longer hurt after them after doing a few here and there. It’s possible! And I’m approaching 50!

[findeight]

Most on here are not offering advice from a position of superiority using internet acquired knowledge.
Instead you are getting mostly actual personal experience based advice painfully acquired over many years and offered to help others AVOID such experiences and mistakes.

Sometimes such advice can come off as curt but should be taken as direct, not rude. At all. And its just advice offered as things to think about without having all the details, not absolute judgement or the single one and only answer.

Based on my experience, riding twice a week with a Green or “ project” horse generally doesn’t work like it does with a packer who does not forget last weeks lessons without training ride$. Depends on the specific situation.

Speaking of things to think about based on my experiences, trainers operating costs are ever increasing and most cannot afford to carry lesson horses off the beginner level. Probably why it sounds like OPs trainer only has one available so there aren’t many options staying in current barn. No shade on OPs trainer or OP, but thats what it is. If thats working for both, no problem.

But…it may not continue to be a viable option. Things happen and its always a good idea to investigate other options so you don’t have to make a decision when upset over a sudden change.

I had a trainer I liked very much thank me for being there for almost 2 years part leasing/ riding extras but it was time to either buy, full lease or leave and her business couldn’t support clients like me. Have friends who had the same experience and seen barns require lease or ownership in their lesson program. They cant afford to carry extra horses just for pay by the ride lessons.

Have had trainers get kicked out of barns they were leasing stalls in, suddenly move out of the area, get married or divorced and drop public lessons and had one long time trainer die.

Don’t get caught unprepared. Stuff happens, mistake to assume things will go on as is for the forseeable future. Maybe you stay lucky but maybe not.

Like I said, this is just something to think about, not telling you what to do. Just think. BTW, been boarding since 1970 so, yeah, things happen without warning.

[fordtraktor]

Not sure this is actually directed at me? But I totally agree that you don’t want to get a young or project horse and ride twice a week. I keep my young horse in full training, so he’s getting worked 5 days a week in a program that is typically a mix of trainer rides and me rides. Currently it’s just trainer rides as my competition horse got injured over the winter and I bought a new unbroken youngster, and trainer has only been on him a handful of times (first time last Thursday!)

OP is looking for something a bit more seasoned, I think, just not necessarily super fancy. That would be my QH mare I’ve been riding – I can ride her every day, once a week, or once a month and she’s good to go. A solid ammy horse can be quite forgiving (though you do have to be careful about fitness and not overdo it if you aren’t riding much!). She also lives out 24/7 which I find helps maintain a base level of fitness sufficient for light riding.

[173north]

@touchstone

Speaking as someone who used to ride every day and now lives in a city with a job that makes such a routine impossible, I think some of the posters dismissing what you can do in a few days a week are being awfully negative. Riding more is always better than riding less, but with a solid foundation, good instruction and some cross training, you can absolutely participate and progress in the sport on a more limited schedule.

I agree - I know plenty of people who ride 2x - 3x per week (live in NYC, the barns are FAR) and continue to progress year after year, including people riding at the 3’6 level and up. I know someone who does the 1.30m and just meets her barn at shows on the weekend. If you’re a dedicated rider who is working out on the days you don’t ride, and you’re in a good program that will keep your horse fit and tuned up, you can go pretty far on a couple of days a week.

[Scribbler]

But you pay for it. You pay to buy or lease the made horse, you pay for his board vet farrier and saddle, and you pay to have the trainer keep him tuned up for you. If you can afford this, it’s a great solution. But if you are at all budget conscious, its a huge amount of cash for what you get.

If you try to do this on a budget, things go wrong. Horse doesn’t get enough rides. Horse get ridden too much by kids leasing or lessons, and loses form or training or soundness. Horse doesn’t get ridden enough and either gets injured when you do ride him, or turns into a firey dragon. Horse is cheaper and needs more schooling to get to where you want him, ends up scaring you. If you are willing to throw enough money at the problem so that basically the trainer is keeping the horse for you, and you show up to ride, that absolutely works. You might indeed progress faster than someone with no training support at all, but able to ride every day.

If OP can afford this, more power to them.

[TheDBYC]

We don’t know that she can’t & that’s not our assumption to make.

[Scribbler]

True. The discussion opened with a question about lease costs and some sticker shock at what it cost to play the hunter game even when you thought you had some cash. So that sent me thinking budget. I know a lot about doing horses on a budget

[findeight]

Fordtractor, you know me better then to assume my comments were directed at you personally. Just aimed at the general discussion in progress.

As always YMMV depending on the exact specifics which are often sketchy in these threads.

[StellaBlue09]

Thank you for saying this, it’s nice to know I’m not out here all by myself! With anything in live, you get out what you are willing to put in and work for. I know that there will be a point where I can only go so far with the time I have, but luckily I haven’t reached that point yet. This is another reason why I’m so non negotiable on the trainer. Her lessons are the best I have had in 15 years. They are challenging, and rewarding, and leave me wanting more. I think that is going to be very important as I progress. It’s hard as a mom sometimes when people don’t understand how you can’t make the time. Well my kids are only young once, and I don’t get a chance to do them again, so I’m not willing to give up any more than I am. Happy to hear there are lots of others out there like me who have found a way to make it all work with a busy schedule. <3 It’s the encouragement I needed when I started this thread. I think I’m about 2 years away from having a pony kid, hopefully, she’s 3 now, and then things will change in the time department at the barn for sure!

[TheDBYC]

Something I’ll say as a divorced mom of 2 who was also a horse woman for long before I added the title of mom to the resume: It’s perfectly fine to have this thing you do. No apologies, no guilt, no excuses, no snarky
BS commentary accepted from other people about it. Not once have I met a man with children who felt any of the above regarding his participation in the things that he wanted to do. He just goes & does it. No reason needed other than he wants to, it’s his money, & he deserves it. Yes, kids are only little once & it goes by in the blink of an eye. So too can the physical ability, family & financial circumstances that allow you to enjoy this thing you’re doing. There will never be enough time, regardless if you are a 24/7 stay-at-home parent or the CEO of a Fortune 500.

I live in one of the horsiest of the horsey areas in the entire US. I see people doing things and spending $ in ways that I often think, “Eh, that’s not how I would go about that.” But they’re not me! As long as they enjoy doing their thing, can pay the bills, & the end result is a happy horse and human, that’s all that matters. I know parents that have horses in full training the entire winter in Ocala that they go down 1 weekend a month & just walk around on. I know parents who pay $2200+ a month in board to have their and their horse’s every need catered by a professional, down to tacking up. Just because they enjoy the social aspect of hacking out at a walk/trot.

On the other hand, I also know parents (100% moms) who rode/ride with good-paying jobs overdrawing their checking accounts by $100s paying for their kids to do 3-4 shows a weekend. hose kids would be happier just noodling around bareback at home, or worse, actively dislike riding & showing. No one is happy because it is the moms that really want to ride in those cases. Why aren’t they? Socially conditioned mom guilt, I suppose.

My daughter occasionally says she’s not sure she wants to continue riding past ponies. The first time she said this, I momentarily thought, “BUT, BUT, WHAT AM I GOING TO DO THEN?!?” Then I caught myself – I’ll just resume devoting 100% of the attention to my own goals. While my active participation as a rider with a capital R has ebbed & flowed with the seasons of life, the horses are a part of my soul & tangentially my livelihood. I refuse to feel guilty or apologize for the time & expense involved.

Of course, I’m not trying to say that my way is the only right way. It’s not. Just promise yourself that you will unapologetically honor & nurture this part of you, in whatever form you’d like for it to take, for as long as it brings you joy & personal fulfillment. Ok?

[StellaBlue09]

You are my idol. I am in the early stages of exactly this. The Guilt is HARD and you are right no man feels that way. Evidence by my husband who has managed to golf weekly if not twice a week since having kids with no guilt. Love him to pieces but certainly conditioned differently than a mom in that aspect.

The thing that you bring up here which hasn’t been mentioned yet is the physical ability. I am still young in my eyes (36 this year), but I can feel that part of me changing. Along with the courage and the need for the thrill of it all… Last year I sat down and thought to myself if I waited another 5 years, did I think I would be brave enough to even start again? I couldn’t answer that question with a definitive yes, which is what lead me to starting again sooner. Sure I’ll have more $$ (hopefully) but I’m not sure if I would have had the courage to make that first step even. This is partialy why I took such offence to the comments about not progressing on a 2x a week schedule, or the people who basically said I would be wasting $$.

I have felt better than I have in the past 10 years the last year. I had postpartum depression with each kid, and lingering issues from that, enhanced by Covid like the rest of us, and you know what makes all of that go away? An hour in the saddle. The smell a horse, the soft whiskers taking a carrot from my hand, standing in the sun with a grazing horse watching the sun set over the pastures. I’ve felt more comfortable in my own skin in the last year than I have in 10 years. It is exhilarating, and the most therapeutic thing I have.

Thank you for saying these kind words, because as you know it’s hard. <3

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Also, spend some time watching lessons of the kids at your barn. Are there a few of them doing the 3 foot or 3’6? TELL EVERYONE that you’re looking. You might find a parent that is willing to let you hack and lesson twice a week if their kid is gearing up to go away to camp or travel for the summer.
Any horse show Dad will perk up when the prospect of getting someone to help foot the bill that won’t be a heavy lift on the animal. Offer to pay for shoes or for half of kid’s training package. It’s not 100%… but you never know. Typically, kids aren’t gonna offer bc they’re territorial, but realistically if little Jenny is gonna be in tennis camp or touring Europe all summer with the 'rents… then they might be willing to cut you a deal and you get a nice horse that is already in a program.

[Adrian2]

It can be done!!! Even with only 2-3 days a week.
In my mid-30s, when my kids were little, I wanted to find a horse to ride and show in the 3’ hunters. I just went from barn to barn and talked to the trainers until I found a horse that someone wanted ridden or sold.
I had a great time and did this for 7-8 years with many different horses and trainers, until I was ready to buy my own horse again.
I paid half the board and half the farrier and no lease fee.
I agree with the poster that said to talk to all the owners at your existing barn. Many people would love to have someone responsible and not completely inexperienced ride their horse twice a week.