(yet another) bit thread, for the young horse

[sweetsalute]

I have a 4yo mare who’s just been started, about 6 rides so far. She’s going great, super relaxed about it all. I originally had her in a KK Ultra, which she seemed to like, but I didn’t love that it was pulling through a little whilst we were installing steering. I since switched her to eggbutt I happened to have lying around, single jointed but with a curved mouthpiece. I don’t really like this bit myself, she doesn’t seem bothered but of course hard to tell at such an early stage (it’s also a touch big).

I personally really like the KK, my older mare loved it, and the breaker certainly took to it very happily…is it worth looking at getting one of the Sprenger eggbutts (I’m particularly looking at the dynamic RS with flat rings), or hold off, see how she goes and once she’s got a little more under her belt, try switching back to the KK? It’s alot of $$ to spend on a bit if its short term, and I don’t have anyone to borrow off. I can do a trial from a couple of bit stores but of course that comes with a fee/incomplete refund if it doesn’t work out.

[Training_Cupid]

Try your KK loose ring with bit guards.

[soloudinhere]

I have to say my single jointed dynamic RS eggbutt (flat rings) is one of my most used bits. Everything I’ve owned has gone it it at some point in time, and liked it. Never had a horse who didn’t.

Even if you need to switch out of it now, or at some point in the future, there will probably be a case where you want it and it was worth buying. For me it is one of those “must have” bits.

[J-Lu]

Well, if she’s just starting and the KK is pulling through, then maybe she just doesn’t get your flexion aids yet. Totally normal. Maybe your current eggbut can help you install the meaning of some aids so that you can later switch to the KK. Maybe not. But I’d be hesitant to spend the $$$ on a Sprenger bit on a greenie with 6 rides when said greenie is going well in a bit you already have. I’d suggest seeing what she likes and being patient about her steering at ride 6. How is she expected to understand flexion at ride 6? Why did you change bits after less than 6 rides for just “slightly pulling through a little”? That is no reason to change bits and I suspect you are leaving out important information. While some horses certainly prefer the assistance of an eggbut, I wonder if your horse just isn’t being started well.

[sweetsalute]

D’oh, bit guards of course! Never needed them before which is probably why I didn’t think of them.

Bit harsh J-Lu…obviously on ride 6 she’s still learning about flexion and every other aid. I thought that went without saying. I only switched as I didn’t want unnecessary interference in her learning…like the bit pulling through and thought as you said, she may have preferred the assistance of the eggbutt. It just so happened the one I had lying around isn’t the mouthpiece I’d prefer and of course I will defer to the horse’s preference on that if she starts to show one. She’s actually picking it all up very quickly and once she understands what I’m asking, is eager to please. Really this was more a question of do people find a fixed ring bit generally more helpful for the greenies or not…

[CanteringCarrot]

It doesn’t necessarily matter what you like, it’s about what the horse likes. I switched to a Fager titanium bit recently in a single joint, and the horse prefers it over anything double jointed. I would think double jointed would be better, but hey, it’s not in my mouth.

I also have the RS Dynamic but my horse is a bit chompy in it. It’s the double jointed version though. I picked it up used for a good price years ago, and I think it’s a useful bit to have. All of my bits are eggbutts due to horse preference.

Friends mare also goes best in a fat hollow single jointed eggbutt. It could have to due with mouth conformation too. Mine possibly likes the Fager due to there not being a lot of room in his mouth (big ol’ tongue and whatnot).

You could also buy a basic full cheek while you’re working on installing the steering, but yeah, bit guards could help.

I would look at the second hand market when your thinking of a new bit, there are some decent deals out there. I’ve also used a Bit Bank/bit trial service in the past. Definitely helpful.

You can also work on some flexion stuff from the ground too. This way you can see how the bit acts and the horse reacts.

[DMK]

Also they have these lovely neoprene bit guards that are super easy to take on and off (weaver is the nicer one iirc), although if you want leather ones, IVC carriage sells them. There’s no putting a regular bit guard on a Liverpool, so they are a lifesaver for me, but I’m never going back to rubber ones for noon driving bits!

[J-Lu]

@sweetsalute

Bit harsh J-Lu…obviously on ride 6 she’s still learning about flexion and every other aid.

Oh brother. If this is your response, it says a lot. I gave you information and info about rides on ride 6. If you don’t want information, why post here? Work on teaching her to properly flex and give to aids. Teaching horses to give to aids is a key step in their training.

[sweetsalute]

Genuinely confused as to what your perceived problem is…I am fully aware that she is brand new to everything, is still learning and it’s a work in progress and this is totally normal. She’s improving every ride and has been very easy and willing throughout the whole process. If anything I keep getting told I’m being too patient.

Idk if you think we’ve been having some major undisclosed issues and I’m trying to solve it with bits…not the case. I just don’t like the bit being able to pull through. On any horse. Not sure how that makes me the terrible person/rider you seem to have decided I am lol.

I’m more than happy to have knowledgeable input, I have someone working with us already but an arsenal of things to try if we hit roadblocks is always good.

[sweetsalute]

Yes of course what the horse likes is what the horse will get when it comes to bits! The eggbutt ironically, I bought for the older mare, she hated it and that’s when I ended up with the KK. Sadly the second hand market where I am is lacking when it comes to the more $$ bits.

We’ve been doing plenty of riding from the ground, it’s definitely very helpful!

[CanteringCarrot]

Honestly, just ignore it.

Maybe you’re hiding some huge monster in the closet but I feel like you asked a genuine question and want to do the best thing for the horse.

[sweetsalute]

Haha thank you, that makes me feel a bit better! That’s really all it is, I want her to be setup as best she can be and don’t want something as silly as a less than ideal snaffle ring to get in the way.

[Jackie_Cochran]

I have found that the horses I ride really prefer eggbutt/D-ring/full cheek snaffles to loose ring snaffles.

The impression I got from the horses, for what it is worth, is that they did not find the “jangling” they got from the loose ring pleasant at all. They did not protest a lot, they would sort of suck back from full contact. The horses I ride (lesson horses) reach for contact and keep contact much better with bits that are not loose ring, even when I use bit guards on the loose ring bits.

I find that horses take their bits personally. I listen to the horse and when the horse “tells” me that the bit is not or is no longer comfortable to them, I dive into my bit box. I learned long ago that the horses do not read the advertising copy on the bit ads, that has happened to me for several bits advertised as “gentler” and “more ergonomic”.

It can get expensive finding the bit the horse says YES! to when you ride that horse.

[outerbanks77]

I really like the Neue Schule Tranz angled lozenge eggbutt with the WB mare I am starting. Second horse to be started in this bit with no bit issues. Eggbutt just seems to be a little steadier and gives the green horse a place to go.

My other horse went in an eggbutt until she started getting more to the 1st/2nd level point, then I switched her to an RS Dynamic loose ring. Also, I started her out in a Micklem, which gives additional stability, and would likely help prevent the bit pulling through as well, since the bit rings are attached lower and more closely to the noseband. The curved single joint Korsteel is the eggbutt I used with this horse, and it’s a good bit for a fraction of the price of an HS or NS bit, so that might be worth a try.

[eightpondfarm]

i start almost every horse on a full cheek snaffle. Then move up to eggbutt from there. My novice horse is just now ready to move up to an eggbutt and i’m pretty happy about that. I have a personal aversion to loose ring bits, that whole pinching thing. Never have experienced it, but then i’ve never used one —except to climb up on someone else’s horse. I’m guessing to be free of that fear i’d do two things …One: get a couple of those big rubber black bit-thingies that go between the bit and the mouth (don’t remember what they’re called) and Two: i’d use a slightly wider bit than needed…like a 1/4" more wide.

I do not know what is to prevent those black bit rubber thingies from moving around and getting into the horse’s mouth…esp if the bit is more wide at the ring and more narrow at the center joint.

[MsM]

I went through some trial and error when I got my 6 yo but very green (what is contact?) horse. Started with a loose ring single joint just because that was what the former owner used. He remained fussy in it. I soon tried an eggbutt and that was a bit better. Then I used a Korsteel eggbutt with the lozenge. He was much quieter and accepting of contact in this. I also found that he was steadier with a snug (not tight) noseband and a flash just snug enough not to get pulled off if he scratches his nose on his knee. I suspect he likes that stability while still having enough freedom to mouth the bit. He still goes happily in this setup.

I have never tried the “designer” bits, so avoided spending big bucks on the trial and error. It might be worthwhile trying a similar, less expensive version of a bit to see the horse’s general reaction before splurging on the fancy bit.

[hoopoe]

I personally like both simple loose ring or egg butt french. Bit guards may be a happy short term, but long term, keep it simple. I would start with bit guard on the loose ring, as long as it does not run in. A slightly too large egg butt may be acceptable compromise. Fix the issue with patient training, only 6 rides is really nothing and if she didn’t get fussed by the slipping bit, keep going. Good luck with your young friend

[Jackie_Cochran]

I agree totally about trying the cheaper bits first.

It would have been much cheaper for me to discover that one horse was just OK with the taste of copper if I had gotten a JP Korsteel bit instead of the EXPENSIVE Herm Sprenger bit with which he was not impressed at all. He ended up in another JP Korsteel bit.

When I first got into titanium bits I was lucky and found the considerably cheaper (and they were not cheap) titanium coated bits. Yes, the dull gray color or the “rainbow” colored bits did not look traditional, but I learned what the horses preferred in a bit and I was able to buy a few school horses their own personal titanium coated bit.

It was later that I discovered the Fager titanium bits which are superior if the horse likes the bit, but it got expensive. The main consolation for me is that it would have been MUCH more expensive for me to buy the Herm Sprenger bits while I was trying to find something the horse liked. That was when I finally realized that the horses do not read the advertising copy, especially with the “gentle” and “kind” bits.

The search for the perfect bit can get expensive, but the horses’ happiness under saddle is definitely worth the time and cost of finding a good bit that works with your horse.

[scislandsprite]

There’s a Facebook group dedicated to second hand high quality bits! Only brands like Herm Sprenger, Neule Schule, etc are allowed & there’s a ton of people in it so if you do decide to buy a bit, its a great place to go. I think its called Second Hand High Quality Bits or maybe the same words but slightly rearranged. Edit: The Facebook group name is actually "Second hand top quality bits - Neue Schule, Nathe, Bombers, Trust etc."
Also, AJ Bits & Tack has some German silver double jointed bits for fairly inexpensive as well as Myler style bits with the non-collapsible mouths. They can also mix and match the bit cheeks to different mouthpieces. Not trying to push you into buying, just thought I’d bring up a couple places with good prices if you go that route!

[J-Lu]

Why did you post “bit harsh, J-Lu”? If you are genuinely confused as to what my perceived problem is, you can start with this. People can only go by what you post. What YOU post.